Author Topic: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)  (Read 4282 times)

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Offline snowdy

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Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« on: March 05, 2005, 01:41:31 AM »
Whats up fellas  8)

Made 2 pizzas tonight for family.

Made 2 batches of dough yesterday... identical. Only difference is in one batch i used carnation malted milk, and the other i used sugar. I thought i'd see if i could notice a difference in taste and also browning color. Overall both doughs turned out different in texture but taste wise both were very good and there was no distinct overpowering difference.

Dough recipe:

3 cups KASL
1 1/4 cups H20
1 TSP malted milk or sugar
1 1/4 tsp sea salt
2 TBSP Olive Oil
1 TSP IDY

I also prepared the dough slightly different.

For the first batch i dissolved the yeast first for 10 minutes in 105 degree water with the Malted Milk too... then combined the rest and mixed in my kitchen aid for about 15 minutes.

The second batch i used sugar instead, didnt dissolve the yeast, combined everything (salt last) then mixed on speed #5 instead of #4 for the same amount of time (15 minutes).

The resulting 2 finished pizzas were definitely different.

The sugar dough seemed to be a slightly different tint of brown... also i dont know if it was because of the way i mixed the dough, but the sugar  pizza came out with more voids and a much more airy crust.. nice and crispy on the outside and soft on the inside... while the malted milk dough had hardly any voids and was crispier... im guessing this was probably because of the way i mixed but i have no clue....

At the end of the night i deep fried some leftover dough :D

pics from tonight below..... enjoy  ;D
« Last Edit: March 05, 2005, 02:05:03 AM by snowdy »


Offline snowdy

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2005, 01:45:13 AM »
the ingredients:

got my big bag of grande 50/50 mix cheese and all i have to say is WOW... this stuff was HUGELY a hit. everyone asked what kind of cheese this was. ive read some posts about their whole milk being too greasy, etc.. but this stuff was so good and tasted light years above the grocery store quality crap ive been buying. The best ive used before this was boars head... but this grande stuff is in a world of its own as far as im concerned.

also got my spices from penzey's... made my own sauce with escalon ground can, penzey's pizza spices, penzy's basil, etc.

boars head pepperoni (used a log instead of the precut that is in this pic) .... taste of toppings were excellent.

also used spicy italian sausage from a local restaraunt called sabatino's lido sausage company.. this place is in Lido Isle in Newport Beach, CA.. it is some seriously good stuff. They have a tiny deli inside the restaraunt you can buy it from.

the toppings on each pie:
Grande 50/50 mozzarella-provolone
spicy italian sausage
pepperoni
onions
crushed garlic
« Last Edit: March 05, 2005, 03:05:43 AM by snowdy »

Offline snowdy

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2005, 01:47:57 AM »
preparing the sausage:

Offline snowdy

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2005, 01:51:38 AM »
took all the ingredients over to my family's place...

Here are all the pics from pizza #1 (the malted milk pizza, yeast dissolved in water first with the malted milk, then mixed 15 minutes on speed #4) Crust ended up crispy with hardly any voids. Tasted great though, great flavor in the crust.

The oven there goes to 550 compared to our oven which goes to 500 (although im not convinced ours even reaches 500).

i can hardly get pizza to brown here at home but at my parents place it freakin cooks like a pizzeria.. nice and charred on the bottom. Browned up good on the edges... damn good.. very good charred flavor.. no burnt flavor.. just very very nice crust flavor.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2005, 02:08:49 AM by snowdy »

Offline snowdy

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2005, 01:58:21 AM »
The Sugar pizza.. browned up a bit different on the rim.

also this crust was the best ive done so far.

the outside was really crispy but when you bit into the end it was soft and chewey inside.... awesome voids.

i dont know what could have cause this difference vs the malted milk pie, but im guessing the mixing on a different speed?? i dont really know.

i didnt dissolve the yeast on this dough.. i put in about 80 degree water, added the yeast,  1 cup of flour and the sugar, started on mix speed.. added 1 more cup of flour... added 2 tbsp of oil, added the final cup of flour, added the salt last.. let it form till solid, rest about 5 min.. then mixed on speed #5 (vs #4 on the malted milk dough) on the kitchen aid for 15 minutes non stop...

Both doughs were finished at a temp of about 82 degrees (give or take a few)... pressed into disks and sealed in plastic storage bags and put right into the fridge.

the only difference otherwise on this dough was that it sat out a bit longer (about 30 minutes) while the first pizza was cooking. It also went into the oven 2nd.

the inside of this dough was so goooood.. damn im gettin hungry again.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2005, 02:09:33 AM by snowdy »

Offline snowdy

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2005, 02:03:14 AM »
had to finish the night off with another deep frying of leftover dough in olive oil. The 2 batches of dough made 4 dough balls so i had to do something with the leftovers.  ;D

i heated up my great grandmas 80 year old metal pot with 2 inches deep of classico olive oil... to 375 degrees and went to town.

cut up the dough into small balls... threw them in until golden brown and coated with powdered sugar and/or cinnamon and sugar.

also in a few we put chocolate chips and in some we also put reeses peanut butter cup chunks (OH MY LORD) goooood.

it was a good night :) Thanks to EVERYBODY for your help so far.. im gettin better by the week.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2005, 02:12:17 AM by snowdy »

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2005, 06:58:46 AM »
Snowdy,
Excellent work.

The oven you used may be a lot hotter than 550 degrees. It looks closer to 700. The orange tinge of the crust gives it away. A 550 degree oven simply can't produce a color like that for some reason.
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Offline snowdy

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2005, 04:51:12 AM »
damn you think so? that rules...
what would cause that?

all i know is we moved into that house when i was 10 in 1987 and they still have that same old school oven. my mom has complained about it to my pops as of late but im gonna protest for them to keep it after seeing what it can do for my pizza. I wonder if its lost its ability to hold its required minimum heat? it takes like 2 hours just for the digital reader to say its heated to 550... but it freakin cooks it awesome once its ready.

whatever is going on there is beautiful... it cooks like a pizza oven.

here at our house (the oven goes to 500) and the pre-heat only takes 12 minutes to get there..... but we cant get any dark browning or crisp. I'm not convinced it goes that high... there is absolutely no dark browning to the crust here at our place. its almost sad compared to my parents oven.

im gonna have to start making everything over there.

are there any factors that would cause a home oven that supposedly maxes @ 550 to go so far over in heat? i agree with you that it must be going way over to get that kind of char on the bottom but i dont have a digital thermometer.

if you can...post a link where i can buy a digital thermometer if you have any good sources and in the next few weeks ill measure it. i'd appreciate it :)

 8)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2005, 04:57:39 AM by snowdy »

Offline pftaylor

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2005, 07:30:38 AM »
Snowdy,
I'm not the infra-red thermometer guy so others will have to weigh in on that point. Regarding your oven though, I would suspect that, from how you've described it, you may want to allow a longer pre-heat period, perhaps as long as your parents.

Or like me, give up on oven cooking and head to your grill...
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline duckjob

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2005, 04:00:55 AM »
Even if your oven heats in 12 minutes, if you're cooking on a stone, Its going to take at least 30-45 minutes for it to fully pre heat. Target and Bed Bath and Beyond both sell oven temperature gauges for like $12, I've been thinking about investing in one, my ovens gauge is not the most reliable.

darn you think so? that rules...
what would cause that?

all i know is we moved into that house when i was 10 in 1987 and they still have that same old school oven. my mom has complained about it to my pops as of late but im gonna protest for them to keep it after seeing what it can do for my pizza. I wonder if its lost its ability to hold its required minimum heat? it takes like 2 hours just for the digital reader to say its heated to 550... but it freakin cooks it awesome once its ready.

whatever is going on there is beautiful... it cooks like a pizza oven.

here at our house (the oven goes to 500) and the pre-heat only takes 12 minutes to get there..... but we cant get any dark browning or crisp. I'm not convinced it goes that high... there is absolutely no dark browning to the crust here at our place. its almost sad compared to my parents oven.

im gonna have to start making everything over there.

are there any factors that would cause a home oven that supposedly maxes @ 550 to go so far over in heat? i agree with you that it must be going way over to get that kind of char on the bottom but i dont have a digital thermometer.

if you can...post a link where i can buy a digital thermometer if you have any good sources and in the next few weeks ill measure it. i'd appreciate it :)

 8)


Offline snowdy

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2005, 09:17:54 PM »
my oven here at home heats to 500 in 12 minutes, but i let the stone heat up in there for at least an hour more.

at my parents though, it takes over an hour just to get to 550.. then i usually leave it in another 30 minutes or so.

ill try heating my stone for 1.5-2 hours this weekend at home to see if i can get better browning :)

Offline November

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2007, 05:19:06 PM »
I hate starting new threads if I don't have to, so I'm going to just post the information here since it's related.  I typically avoid using products like malted milk in pizza dough, but I have done it a few times in the past just for the sake of experimentation.  Recently I decided to create a flavor-balanced formula using malted milk, which attempts to use both a form of sucrose and malted milk, rather than as this thread's title indicates: malted milk vs. sugar.  I specifically chose ingredients that are readily available at the local grocery store.  Maple syrup can be used in substitution for the maple sugar, but use 1.47 times the amount and use 32% of that amount less in water.

100.00%   bread flour
61.803%   water
1.6000%   sea salt
1.4000%   malted milk powder
1.2000%   soybean oil
1.0000%   maple sugar
0.1618%   ADY

For the (11.5", 414 g dough ball) pizza in the attached image, I fermented the dough for 24 hours @ 50°F, and baked it for 5 minutes @ 600°F on a perforated disk.

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2007, 05:40:46 PM »
November,

Do you intend that the malted milk powder be something like what is sold under the Carnation's brand in the supermarkets? I looked at the Carnation's Original malted milk powder I have on hand and it includes wheat flour and malted barley extracts, dry milk, lecithin, salt and sodium bicarbonate.

My recollection also is that you usually proof the dough skin on the pan for an hour or so before dressing and baking. Did you do that this time?

Peter

Offline November

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2007, 05:51:37 PM »
Peter,

Those are good questions; one of which I meant to address in my last post.  Carnation "Original" Malted Milk is what I used.  Because I knew that the malted milk would lend a chewier, less airy texture, I used a trick that would otherwise cause excessive bubbling: I pulled the dough out of the 50°F MR-138, shaped it right away, and had it in the oven before 30 minutes was up.  This causes a larger temperature extreme in the dough, forcing a more rapid rise.  As you can see, I only had one significant bubble form near the rim, so the trick worked as far as I'm concerned.  The crust was every bit as airy as my typical (non-dairy) crusts.  The flavor was very good.

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2007, 06:32:40 PM »
November,

I am sure that I should be able to find maple sugar in one of the supermarkets near me but I am much more likely to find maple syrup. I would use the pure stuff, not the sugar-laden maple syrups. I took your numbers, calculated the amount for each ingredient (with a total of 414 grams), and made the changes you suggested to convert from maple sugar to maple syrup (pure). I then recalculated the baker’s percent for the water and calculated the appropriate baker’s percent for the maple syrup. I plugged all of the numbers into the enhanced dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html and got the following for a 414-gram dough batch:

Flour (100%):
Water (61.3326%):
ADY (0.1618%):
Salt (1.6%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (1.2%):
Maple Syrup (1.46999%):
Malted Milk Powder (1.4%):
Total (167.16439%):
247.66 g  |  8.74 oz | 0.55 lbs
151.9 g  |  5.36 oz | 0.33 lbs
0.4 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.11 tsp | 0.04 tbsp
3.96 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.71 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
2.97 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.65 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
3.64 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.54 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
3.47 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.49 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
414 g | 14.6 oz | 0.91 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The flour is bread flour; the pizza size is 11.5"

The malted milk powder in the above formulation is the Carnation’s Original malted milk. I think I got the numbers right. I didn’t add a bowl residue compensation percent, but in actual practice I would perhaps use about 1.5%.

One of the beauties of the MR-138 ThermoKool unit is that you can control the endpoint when you want to use the dough--24 hours in your case.

Peter

Edit: For a slightly revised version using a dough weight of 417.9 grams instead of 414 grams, see Reply 16 below.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 09:45:17 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline November

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2007, 06:40:53 PM »
Peter,

If I had known you were going to goto all that trouble I would have mentioned that the 414 g was after losing some dough for miscellaneous testing.  The actual batch size is 835.81 g for two 11.5" pizzas, so in actuality the dough ball size would be 417.9 g.

500   bread flour
309   water
8   sea salt
7   malted milk powder
6   soybean oil
5   maple sugar
0.81   ADY

- red.november

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2007, 07:53:39 PM »
November,

No problem. I like playing around with numbers and trying to find ways of using the dough calculating tools to make my pizza making life a bit easier. Assuming my math was correct, using 417.9 grams for a single dough ball, I get the following formulation::

Flour (100%):
Water (61.3326%):
ADY (0.1618%):
Salt (1.6%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (1.2%):
Maple Syrup (1.47%):
Malted Milk Powder (1.4%):
Total (167.1644%):
250 g  |  8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs
153.33 g  |  5.41 oz | 0.34 lbs
0.4 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.11 tsp | 0.04 tbsp
4 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.72 tsp | 0.24 tbsp
3 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.66 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
3.68 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.55 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
3.5 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
417.91 g | 14.74 oz | 0.92 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: For one 11.5" pizza (using bread flour), Carnation's Original malted milk, no bowl residue compensation

Peter
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 09:46:52 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline grovemonkey

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Re: Tonights Pizzas (malted milk vs sugar)
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2007, 07:59:37 AM »
November,

That pizza looks real good. I'm going to have to try and find some malted milk powder here in Japan and try out your recipe. 

Grove