Author Topic: A real deep dish video  (Read 30365 times)

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Offline BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2010, 03:11:48 PM »
And notice how the proofed dough balls appeared so very non-greasy or non-oily.  Deep dish dough often times appears oily because of the high level of oil in it, esp. a day or so later when one refrigerates the dough.  I find myself most often adding flour to the finished dough to get it to look similar to that in the Malnati's video.


Offline loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2010, 03:28:41 PM »
I think a longer knead will give you a less oily looking and feeling dough ball.
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2010, 03:47:47 PM »
I revisited the video that DKM found with a view to trying to determine which Hobart mixer is shown in the video. I suspected that it was one of the old 802 workhorses with a bowl capacity of 80 quarts. There used to be a mixer capacity chart at the Hobart website but, because the website was revamped by Hobart, I was not able to find the capacity chart at their website (my old links to the chart were dead). I suspected that Malnati's was using a Hobart mixer model that is no longer being offered by Hobart but quite possibly was still available in the used mixer market. After some effort, I managed to find a photo of a Hobart 802 at eBay, at http://cgi.ebay.com/Hobart-80QT-Commercial-Dough-Mixer-M-802_W0QQitemZ230429981207QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a6b27a17. That prompted me to do a search for the old Hobart capacity chart that featured the Hobart 802, which I was lucky to find (by way of Australia) at http://www.hobartfood.com.au/resources/brochure/Mixer%20Capacity%20F-7701(9-05).pdf. From that pdf document, it certainly looks like Malnati's is using the Hobart 802 and, from the first page of the pdf document, it appears to be able to handle from 85-155 pounds of pizza dough (depending on the specific type of pizza dough, type of flour, hydration, etc.). I also know from what I have read at the PMQ Think Tank that an 80-qt. Hobart mixer can accept a 50-lb. bag of flour.

One will also see another model in the capacity chart, the V1401, that looks the same as the 802, but it will be noted that the bowl is larger than for the 802.

If we assume that a 50-lb. bag of flour is being used by Malnati's in the video, the water and oil numbers mentioned earlier start to make more sense. 

Peter

Offline DKM

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2010, 03:59:52 PM »
First, these girls are adorable.  I do think they are employees.  When one of them is cutting the pizza she says "They don't trust me with the knives, remember?"  I think they up and put this together, and look at the buzz they stirred on this board, so kudos to Sarah and her friends. 

I say that all the time about knifes;)  8)

They are being too suprivised to be employees.  The "helper" has to fix the holes and pull the dough up the sides, he tells her how much cheese, that she put on too much sauce, shows her how to flip the pizza out of the pan.

If they had only known the activity they would set off here.  ;D :-D :chef: :pizza:
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Offline loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2010, 07:52:20 AM »
I ran a few numbers on the oil content with six quarts as the amount of total oil and broke it down to a blend of 95/5 corn oil to olive oil.  The blend is a ratio that has been discussed on here before and may not be accurate. Well, even with olive oil being heavier than corn oil it didn't make much difference from the numbers I came up with in reply #25. 

It breaks down to:

4943g corn oil or 22 3/4 c + 2.46 t
260 g olive oil or 1 c + 3 T + .57 t

Simply adding it all up:

22 3/4 + 1c = 23 3/4 c
3 T (or 9 t) + 2.46 t + .57 t = (12.03 t or 4.01 T or basically 2 oz.) 1/4 c

Voila!  We're back to 24 c or 6 quarts of oil giving us a baker's percentage of:

21.795% corn oil
1.1475 olive oil

It's possible that they could round things off by first placing 1 1/4 c or even 1 1/2 c of olive oil in the bucket and then topping to 6 quarts with corn oil, or the very likely scenario of having the oil blended for them so measuring olive oil isn't necessary at all.  Of course those factors will change the baker's percentages for us trying to duplicate this formula.

I'm sensing a trial with these percentages this week by several of us. :chef:

I've already run the comparitive numbers and they don't change too much for a 12" with a TF of .1218 (1.5% bowl residue)

My recipe:

AP Flour    328g
water        148
corn oil       62
olive oil       13
idy              2

Formula based on info gleaned from this video:

AP Flour    327g
water       150
corn oil      71
olive oil       4
idy             2

I want to repeat to DKM, great find on this video.  It made for some great discussion and also confirmed quite a bit of what we've already been doing here.  Thanks to the girls for making the video.  Something tells me if Marc Malnati sees this discussion he'll have YouTube taking that video down rather quickly.

Loo
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 08:02:22 AM by loowaters »
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Offline DKM

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2010, 08:03:08 AM »
Loo,

How long are you going to mix it?

I plan use the % I posted above based on my own experiments.

I hope the video doesn't get pulled, though I do worry about it.

Let's get cooking!  :pizza: :chef:
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Offline loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2010, 08:11:26 AM »
My knead time, with the kinda sorry KA "C" hook, will probably be 4 minutes on 2 speed.  I'll adjust based on how well it's working the dough.

Loo
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Offline BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2010, 08:18:17 AM »
Any baker's percentages so I can do a 9"?                --BTB

Offline loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2010, 08:20:42 AM »
BTB

202
93
44
2
1

Have at it.

I guess I could post the entire formula

AP Flour     100%
Water         45.88
Corn Oil       21.795
Olive Oil        1.1475
IDY               .50

TF = .12 (.1218 w/ 1.5% bowl residue addition)

Loo
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 08:25:44 AM by loowaters »
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Offline Randy

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2010, 09:47:29 AM »
 I know this will really taste good but what a ton of oil.  Don't misunderstand my comment, I would love to make this pizza version but I just have to cut back somewhere even though the one I make is sure not on the weight watchers list.

I will watch for the pictures to come and drool from afar.

Randy
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 09:51:16 AM by Randy »


Offline loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2010, 10:59:26 AM »
I did some other adjustments on the oil content figuring another possibility.  If they went with a 5 qts. corn oil to 1 qt. olive oil ratio that would result in a formula that looks like this:

AP Flour    100%
water         45.88
corn oil       19.12
olive oil         3.80
IDY                .5

A thickness factor of .121 would require a 12 oz. dough ball for a 9" deep dish pizza.

I know, I seem a bit obsessed about this.

Loo
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Offline BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2010, 11:16:27 AM »
Well, I decided to give this a try yesterday and put together the dough in the morning and baked it in the early evening after letting the dough rise for 6 or 7 hours, while knocking it down several times after it rose.  I used the deep dish calculation tool and approximated Loo's proportions in Reply #50 for a 9" deep dish, and roughly 1.5" up the side, 1.5% bowl residue, and TF of .1218.  While I was tempted to change the recipe in a few respects (like adding salt, sugar, etc.), I stayed true to form and just put in the ingredients talked of here.  Here's the formulation:
 
Flour (100%):  201.01 g  |  7.09 oz | 0.44 lbs
Water (46%):  92.46 g  |  3.26 oz | 0.2 lbs
ADY (1%):  2.01 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.53 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
Olive Oil (2%):  4.02 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Corn Oil (21%):  42.21 g | 1.49 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.38 tsp | 3.13 tbsp
Total (170%): 341.71 g | 12.05 oz | 0.75 lbs | TF = 0.1218
 
I used 5 1/2 slices of mozzarella cheese (which per package amounted to .7272 oz per slice) and 2 1/2 slices (pulled apart in pieces) of provolone (.666 oz per slice) for a total of 5.66 oz. of cheese.  Also I used ADY instead of IDY.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 12:13:22 PM by BTB »

Offline BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2010, 11:18:55 AM »
I baked it for approx. 25 to 30 minutes on a low rack level at 475 degrees F, altho for the last 10 minutes I put my oven's convection feature (i.e. hot fan) on to brown the top of the pizza a bit.  One without a convection feature can accomplish the same by raising the pizza to a high rack in their oven for the last 10 minutes or so of baking time.

The result was an excellent, delicious tasting pizza.  One of the best (but without semolina and some things that I think enhance a pizza in some respects). The color remained a light golden and next time I will either bake a little longer or add something like a little sugar to darken the crust just a bit.  Am anxious to hear of any others thoughts and trials with this.                             
                                                                                  --BTB
 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 07:06:41 PM by BTB »

Offline loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2010, 11:43:24 AM »
That looks great!!!  I'm making this for dinner tonight!  Can't wait!

Actually, it looks like you went with the formula in reply #48.

Loo
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Offline BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2010, 12:11:41 PM »
Opps, you're right Loo, it was #48.   Good luck with your trial.     

BTW, I grabbed the wrong deep dish pan for this resulting in my using a good, but different dimension pan.  It is a tapered one with 8 1/2" on the bottom and 9 1/4" on the top.  It worked fine but I found myself using only about 85% of the dough and I made it much thinner than I have in the past.  In any event, the result was great. 

                                                                                      --BTB                  :P
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 12:22:17 PM by BTB »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2010, 12:18:42 PM »
BTB,

Did your version remind you of a "real" Malnati's pizza? And did you note how much sauce you used, by weight?

Peter
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 12:22:10 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2010, 12:38:06 PM »
Did your version remind you of a "real" Malnati's pizza?
Much closer . . .  but still a way's away. (wonder if they don't use some special flour)

Quote

And did you note how much sauce you used, by weight? 
You know, I forgot that again.  And I kept my digital scale out and intended to do so, but . . . .   I was making another pizza (thin cracker crust) at the same time, so I got lost in doing some things.  As I put both drained 6 in 1 and some good small diced tomatoes on, I estimate that it was from 9 to 11 ounces of sauce in total (I like it a little on the heavier side).
                                                                                     --BTB

Online Pete-zza

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2010, 01:11:37 PM »
BTB,

I wonder whether Malnati's uses flours from Ceresota/Hecker. Those are classic flours in the Chicago area, with a higher protein content than other all-purpose flours.

Peter

Offline loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2010, 03:48:51 PM »
Peter,

I wonder if they don't use a H & R flour.  That would be a lower protein would it not?  I guess it depends on who's milling it.

Loo
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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #59 on: February 02, 2010, 04:11:58 PM »
Loo,

It's hard to say. H&R flours can vary quite a bit in terms of quality and specs. For example, the protein content of the General Mills H&R flour as given in their specs at http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/Flour_SpecSheet/HR%20%20Bleached14314.DOC is 11% +/- 1%. If I recall correctly from the video, the flour bags do not contain a lot of writing, or maybe the bags were stacked back side up. Many chains, even some of the smaller regional chains, have flours milled especially for them or they have the flours, or even standard flours, put into essentially unmarked bags.

Peter