Papa Johns Clone

[AustinSpartan]

Here's the results of my Papa Johns clone.

I do have a couple of questions regarding the preparation of the pizza. When transferring from the countertop to the screen, the pizza goes from being nice and round with even distribution, to stretched and thinned out in the middle. What is a good way to transfer the dough after forming it into a circle?

Next question is with regards to baking. It seems as though the center of the pie doesn't get cooked as well as the outer edges, resulting in a more doughy and less bread like crust. I know the sauce, toppings and cheese are the guilty parties here, but what can I do to abate this issue? I really don't want to par bake this dough, as then i'll end up with something a little too airy and less pizza like. The oven is 500' with a pizza stone pre-heated for 35 minutes.

I can't claim that this is the first Papa Johns clone that I attempted. My first attempt resulted in a HUGE mess as I forgot to spray the pan and ended up with more of pizza slop than pizza slices. Still wasn't quite the Papa Johns taste. Wondering if that's because I did refrigerate the dough over night, after I let it rise for 5 hours, fridge over night, then 4 hours on the counter today. Just didn't have time to make the dough and get 7 hours out of it today.

[Pete-zza]

AustinSpartan,

Can you tell me which Papa John's clone dough recipe you used?

Peter

[AustinSpartan]

Though not the exact link, the recipe is nearly identical to the one posted here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg64308.html#msg64308

I believe that I found a post you had made under an 8 hour Papa Johns clone, or something along those lines.

I think the doughyness might come back to the amount of sauce / cheese that I'm using, and this may be preventing my pie from baking in the center.

[Pete-zza]

AustinSpartan,

The link you provided is for a dough that was fermented for between 8-9 days. Is that the recipe you used? Or did you try the 8-hour PJ clone dough recipe at Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59357.html#msg59357, as you modified it to use a combination of room temperature and cold fermentation rather than only a room temperature fermentation?

I am also a bit confused about the two pizzas you briefly described in your opening post. It sounds like you made one PJ clone pizza on a pan that did not turn out as you had hoped and that you made a second PJ clone pizza (I believe it is the one shown in the photos) in which you used a screen and a pizza stone. Did you use the same PJ clone dough recipe for the two pizzas and, in the case of the second pizza using the screen, did you place the screen with the dressed pizza on it directly on the pizza stone? Once you clarify what the two pizzas are, and which is the one that now concerns you, I will try to address the underbaking problem you experienced.

On the matter of how to best transfer a dough skin onto a pizza screen, I don't have a perfect solution to that problem, especially if the dough skin is highly extensible and hard to lift up without losing control of the skin and having it become too thin in parts. Under such conditions, I try to lift the skin and drape it over my forearms and drop the skin onto the screen. I then adjust the shape and diameter.

Peter

[Randy]

On the screens.  Screens are sensitive to the location in the oven.  If you have a stone in your oven take it out to use a screen.  If you want the bottom crisper then use the bottom rack.  If you have an oven with an electric element, you can wait for the element to come back on after preheating to pu the pizza in then the radiant heat from the element will give a very crisp and brown crust.

Randy

[AustinSpartan]

AustinSpartan,

The link you provided is for a dough that was fermented for between 8-9 days. Is that the recipe you used? Or did you try the 8-hour PJ clone dough recipe at Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg59357.html#msg59357, as you modified it to use a combination of room temperature and cold fermentation rather than only a room temperature fermentation?

I am also a bit confused about the two pizzas you briefly described in your opening post. It sounds like you made one PJ clone pizza on a pan that did not turn out as you had hoped and that you made a second PJ clone pizza (I believe it is the one shown in the photos) in which you used a screen and a pizza stone. Did you use the same PJ clone dough recipe for the two pizzas and, in the case of the second pizza using the screen, did you place the screen with the dressed pizza on it directly on the pizza stone? Once you clarify what the two pizzas are, and which is the one that now concerns you, I will try to address the underbaking problem you experienced.

On the matter of how to best transfer a dough skin onto a pizza screen, I don't have a perfect solution to that problem, especially if the dough skin is highly extensible and hard to lift up without losing control of the skin and having it become too thin in parts. Under such conditions, I try to lift the skin and drape it over my forearms and drop the skin onto the screen. I then adjust the shape and diameter.

Peter

I did use the recipe indicated in post #24 of the 8 hour PJ clone. I really didn't intentionally modify the recipe to integrate the cold and room temp fermentation, but because of the circumstances (working all day), I made the dough last night, and then refrigerated it overnight until it was removed and allowed to raise on the counter at room temperature today (~4 hours, wanted to let it warm up to room temp and then ferment for another couple of hours at that temperature).

The first and second pizzas used the exact same recipe. I tried to make this recipe last weekend, employing the exact same methods, but forgot to spray the screen, so I ended up with a big pizza mess. This evening, I used the same dough recipe that I prepared yesterday and the above covers my experiences this evening. The uneven baking is what concerns me the most, as I was hoping for a more thoroughly cooked pizza. This was on a screen that was placed on a stone that was at 500'.

As for cheese, I used a mixture of low-skim mozzarella and provolone. Between the two cheeses, I would imagine I was somewhere around 10oz.

Sauce was the PJ sauce clone using 6 in 1 puree.

[Pete-zza]

AustinSpartan,

When I made all of the PJ clone pizzas, I tried to replicate as closely as possible the baking method used by PJs, which entails using a pizza screen and an oven temperature of around 475-500 degrees F. I used only a pizza screen, not a combination of pizza screen and pizza stone as you did. I have found that in my basic builder's grade electric oven I do not get particularly good results using a pizza screen directly on a preheated pizza stone. The oven spring is not as good as when I use the pizza screen by itself and it can take quite a bit longer than normal for the pizza to bake to its final desired condition. This is with a pizza stone that has been preheated on the lowest oven rack position for about an hour at about 500-525 degrees F.

I believe that in your case, with only a 35 minute preheat of your pizza stone, that slowed down the bake even more and was perhaps largely responsible for the results you achieved. If I were to use a combination of a pizza screen and a pizza stone to make a PJ clone pizza, I would place the pizza stone on the lowest oven rack position and preheat it for about an hour at about 500 degrees F. I would then place the unbaked pizza on the pizza screen and bake it at a higher oven rack position until the rim forms and starts to turn a light brown (the cheeses will also usually be bubbling and maybe even turning a light brown depending on the particular cheeses used). I would then move the partially baked pizza off of the screen and onto the pizza stone to finish baking and to develop better bottom crust browning. If, after the bottom crust is nicely browned but the toppings are not yet fully baked, I would move the pizza back to a higher oven rack position to get additional top heat to finish baking the pizza.

In your case, I don't think it was the toppings or cheeses that were responsible for the partially unbaked crust even though, at about 10 ounces of cheese, that would be a few ounces greater than what I believe PJ uses for a 14" pizza (I estimate around 7.5-8 ounces for a basic pizza). I believe your problem was related to the oven thermodynamics.

There are some members who have made the PJ clone pizzas using only a pizza stone. I did not try this method myself, as I noted earlier, but such members apparently got good results. However, in using the pizza stone, care should be taken to be sure that the bottom of the crust does not brown too quickly or excessively before the rest of the pizza is finished baking. This may mean having to move the pizza higher in the oven to get the pizza a safe distance from the bottom coil.

Your alteration of the recommended fermentation of the PJ clone dough should not have made a huge difference that I can see. However, those changes, coupled with the specific bake protocol you used, might have produced a finished product that less resembled an authentic PJ pizza. Just changing the bake method can do that.

Should you adopt any of the above recommendations, please keep us informed of your progress or any other problems that might develop.

Peter

[AustinSpartan]

In my next attempts, I will use the pizza screen directly inside of the oven. I'm slowly trying new recipes, and sort of hooked on the american style PJ clone at the current time. I'll let you know if I end up with a crispier and better baked crust next time around. Thanks for your insight, Pete.