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Offline Jackie Tran

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basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« on: April 21, 2010, 04:54:14 PM »
Ok so here’s the recipe I’ve been working on.  I wanted a simple  basic NY style recipe that I can make anywhere anytime without having to refer to a written recipe and require just basic kitchen measuring cups.   After closely examining a dozen recipes or so, I noted the range of baker’s percents of the individual ingredients.   The recipes were all very similar and the differences were mainly in preferences for more or less salt, more or less yeast depending on how long you wanted to cold ferment the dough, using starters in place of  commercial yeast, and the addition of oil and sugar for texture & taste.  So I decided I would attempt to simplify the recipes and here’s what I ended up with. 
 
Here are the ranges in baker’s percents of the recipes I compared.
•   Flour  (100%)
•   Water (60-70%)
•   Starter (5-30%)
•   Salt (2-3.5%)
•   ADY/IDY (0.23-1%)
•   Sugar (1-4%)
•   Oil (2-5%)

Here’s what I came up with.   The only part of the recipe that varies is the amount of flour b/c different types of flours (All Purpose, Bread Flour, and High Gluten flour) have varying weights.  So the main part of the recipe consist of 1 cup + 1-2Tbs of water, depending on the hydration rate you choose.  I have provide both formulations below.  The ADY or IDY, salt, sugar, and oil remains at 1 tsp.  I happen to like the higher hydration formula b/c I like moister crust and I live at high altitudes require a bit more water in baking.   This recipe will make 2 doughballs around 300gm each that will make (2)12-13” pies depending on how thick or thin you like it.  Or you can make 2 thicker 10” pies with a big rims.

For the higher hydration recipe (64%-67%).

1 cup of AP flour weighs ~ 125-130gm (~127.5gm)

•   AP flour      3 cups      (382.5gm)
•   Water      1 cup 2 T   (244gm)   63.7%
•   Table salt   1 tsp      (6gm)      1.56%
•   ADY/IDY   1 tsp      (4gm)      1%
•   Sugar      1 tsp      (5gm)      1.3%
•   Oil      1 tsp      (4.3gm)      1.1%
•   Total            645.8gm minus 5% bowl residue = 613.5 gm or 306.75gm per ball.

1 cup of Bread Flour weighs ~ 135-140gm (~137.5gm)

•   Bread Flour    2.75 cups       (~378gm)   100%
•   Water       1 cup 2 T    (~244gm)   64.5% hydration ratio
•   Table salt   1 tsp      (~6gm)      1.6%
•   ADY/IDY 1 tsp      (~4gm)      1%
•   Sugar      1 tsp      (~5gm)      1.3%
•   Oil      1 tsp      (~4.3gm)   1.1%
•   Total            641gm minus 5% bowl residue = 609gm or 304gm per ball.

High Gluten Flour formulation.  1 cup of HG flour = 140-150gm (~145gm)

•   High Gluten F.   2.5cups      (~362.5gm)
•   Water      1cup 2Tbs   (~244gm)   67%
•   Table salt   1 tsp      (~6gm)      1.65%
•   ADY/IDY 1 tsp      (~4gm)      1.1%
•   Sugar      1 tsp      (~5gm)      1.4%
•   Oil      1 tsp      (~4.3gm)   1.2%
•   Total            625.8gm minus 5% Bowl residue = 594.5gm or 297gm per ball.

For a Lower Hydration ratio formulation of (61-62%) follow this recipe.

1 cup of AP flour weighs ~ 125-130gm(~127.5gm).

•   AP flour      3 cups      (382.5gm)
•   Water      1 cup 1T   (232gm)   61%
•   Table salt   1 tsp      (6gm)      1.57%
•   ADY/IDY 1 tsp      (4gm)      1%
•   Sugar      1 tsp      (5gm)      1.3%
•   Oil      1 tsp      (4.3gm)      1.1%
•   Total            633.8gm minus 5% bowl residue = 602gm or 301gm per ball.

1 cup of Bread Flour weighs ~ 135-140gm (~137.5gm)

•   Bread Flour    2.75 cups       (~378gm)   100%
•   Water       1 cup 1T    (~232gm)   61% hydration ratio
•   Table salt   1 tsp      (~6gm)      1.58%
•   ADY/IDY 1 tsp      (~4gm)      1%
•   Sugar      1 tsp      (~5gm)      1.3%
•   Oil      1 tsp      (~4.3gm)   1.1%
•   Total            629.3gm minus 5% bowl residue = 598gm or 299gm per ball.

High Gluten Flour formulation.  1 cup of HG flour = 140-150gm (~145gm)

•   High Gluten F.   2.5cups      (~362.5gm)
•   Water      1cup 1T      (~232gm)   64%
•   Table salt   1 tsp      (~6gm)      1.6%
•   ADY/IDY   1 tsp      (~4gm)      1.1%
•   Sugar      1 tsp      (~5gm)      1.4%
•   Oil      1 tsp      (~4.3gm)   1.2%
•   Total            613.8gm minus 5% Bowl residue = 583gm or 291.55 gm per ball.

As you can see, using this recipe is extremely easy to recall at a moment's notice.  The less protein a flour has (AP<BF<HG flour) cut the flour amount by ¼ of a cup.   So AP flour requires 3 cups, BF 2.75 cups, and HG 2.5 cups.   The water amount is the same at 1 cup and 1-2T (depending on your preferred hydration rate), and keep the other ingredients at 1 tsp.  Use oil or sugar or omit them according to your taste and preference.  Just know if you want to use either sugar or oil, it’s just 1 tsp.   I have made pies with and without oil and sugar, and with the varying flours and all turn out good.   

A note about the yeast: You can use ADY and IDY interchangeable.  B/c of the high amount of yeast.  Use this dough within 2 hours after kneading or refrigereate and use within 24hours.  Depending on how much it has risen in the fridge pull it out 1-2 hours prior to baking and proof at room temps. 

A note about oil and sugar: Oil and sugar is purely optional.  Just know that if you want to add it, the amount is easy to remember (1 tsp).  Sugar will give the dough a slightly sweeter taste and help the crust brown a bit better and oil will make the crust a bit softer and the dough a easier to manage for the beginner.   For the traditionalist, feel free to omit the oil and sugar. 

A note about the hydration ratio.  Hydration ration refers to how wet the dough is.  You get it by dividing the amount of flour by the amount of water (whether using weight or volume).  If you want a slightly drier or less hydrated dough, you can use just 1 cup of water (instead of 1 cup and 2 Tbs).
The beauty of this recipe is that it frees me up from having to follow a recipe exactly.  Using it as a base, I can make small changes to each ingredient according to taste and know that I am still within the guidelines of a typical NY style recipe. 

A note about volume measurements.  Recipes that use volume measurements can be highly inaccurate and variable for several reasons.  First off, some flours are pre-sifted while others can be rather compact causing variation of flour weight per 1 cup measurement.  Next, there are several methods to measure dry ingredients by.  Some people cut it with the flat edge of a knife, while others (like me) just shake the top, level and eyeball it.   If you measure the weight of flour using these 2 methods, the gram weight of flour can vary as much as 10gm.  Another factor that makes this type of recipe inaccurate is no 2 measuring cups are exactly alike.  I took measurements of the same flour with 2 different cup measurers and consistently got a 5-10 gm variation.   So in my recipe, I took several measurements of each type of flour and took the averages of the variations.
Keep in mind that this recipe is meant to be simple and not complicated.  It’s actually ok that we all don’t measure flour the same.  I even have started practicing eyeballing tsp and Tbs measurements in the palm of my hand.  I double check to make sure I’m close enough.  My goal is to only have to measure flour and water by volume, and ultimately not have to measure even those things.   

EDIT: To use this recipe with rehydrated ADY or extended cold fermentation, see notes in Reply 43 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10789.msg99858.html#msg99858.  

« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 10:52:28 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 05:04:58 PM »
The following is the hand kneading technique I currently use.  It’s pretty easy.  I’m working on an even more simple version to be release in a couple weeks if testing goes well.   

The first thing I want you to know about this hand technique is that it is very easy to do requiring very little effort and energy.  You won’t get a good workout, won’t sweat, or develop tired hands.  It just takes about 1 hour from start to finish.  With a bit of practice you’ll be making pizza in no time.

Note: you’ll want to plan on starting the dough a minimum of 3 hours prior to baking.  You can make it 6-8 hours in advance, just don’t forget to put it in the fridge if not using right away. 

Step 1: Mix 75% of the flour, salt, sugar, oil, and water thoroughly.  Use a heavy spoon and spend a few minutes making sure the water is well mixed with the flour.   I use the back of the spoon and push dough against the side of the bowl roating the bowl as I go along. The less clumps you have in your dough from the beginning the less kneading you’ll have to do later.  Now let the mix sit covered for 30 min prior to kneading.  Halfway through this 30min (after 15min) I will try to mix as much of the leftover flour into the dough as possible.  The more flour you can get incorporate into the dough during this autolyse period the better gluten development you’ll have and the less kneading you’ll have to do later.   I do this by poking the dough with my finger tips and spreading the dough out into a pancake shape.  This increases the surface area of the dough and exposes wet spots that will take up more flour.  After the 30 min autolyse period is up, most if not all of your flour should be incorporate at this time.  Pull your dough onto a clean working surface, stretch it out a bit and sprinkly your yeast on at this time.  You don’t need to “proof” the yeast even if it’s ADY.   Knead with your palms leisurely by folding the dough onto itself for about 5mins incorporating any remaining flour at this point.  DO NOT add any extra “bench” flour other than what you have premeasured out.  The dough is suppose to be wet and sticky at this point.  Cover the dough with your large bowl by inverting it and let rest for 5mins.  During this and subsequent 5 min rest periods the dough will be transformed.  It will literally change in the way it looks and feel.  You’ll notice that the dough has quite a bit more give to it, feels softer and moister, and be easier to fold and knead.  This is b/c the time allows the water to fully hydrate the flour/dough and helps the gluten strands relax and align themselves.

Pic 1 is during autolyse when I add the residual flour.
Pic 2 is after an initial 5 min kneadn and 5 min rest.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 05:12:12 PM by Tranman »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2010, 05:09:06 PM »
Step 2:   Now knead the dough for another 5 minutes or so.  Toward the end of this 5mins, start balling the dough by fold it in half, turn it up onto one end, and fold down onto it self again.  You’ll make between 5 and 10 folds.  After folding, just press the ends together frimly.   No need to seal edge just yet.  You’ll let the ball rest covered for another 5 mins.  At this point you are done kneading.  From here on out, you’ll just be folding or “balling” the dough.

Step 3:  After the dough has rested a bit, you will repeat folding the dough 5-10 folds.  This should take about 30 secs to do and rest again for a 5min.  I typically repeat this process a 2-3 times depending on the hydration ratio and how wet the dough is feeling at the moment.   Once I determine the dough is finish, I will seal up the bottom edge by pressing very firmly along the crease. 

So just to recap: 30min autolyse, 5 min knead, 5 min rest (2 cylces), followed by 2-3 cycles of folding or balling dough 5-10 times with a 5 mins rest in between.

The dough is done when you ball it and notice that it isn’t tearing from handling.  The dough will feel satiny soft.  It may feel moist or slightly wet but not stick to your hands or to the surface that your are working it on.  It will also keep it’s ball shape relatively intact even after a rest period, meaning it won’t slump very much.   

Pics 1&2 is the dough being folded.  It can be folded on the working counter or in the air.
Pic 3 dough ball divided.   Reball each and use in 2 hours or get it in the fridge.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 05:10:37 PM by Tranman »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2010, 05:26:02 PM »
Oh I forgot, feedback is appreciated.  Thanks for looking.

Offline Pizzalogy

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 03:59:55 AM »
Thanks. I found this quite helpful. I used it for my first attempt and I was pretty satisfied with the results, especially since I don't have a stone yet. As you can see, the crust is droopy and foldable like NY style pizza.


http://i39.tinypic.com/10eolty.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/xo1shy.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/fxquf.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/241mikn.jpg

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 09:05:01 AM »
Nice job for a first pie pizzalogy.  Keep practicing with it and let me know how it improves over time.  You'll be surprise at the type of pizzas you can make at home if you practice and don't give up. 

Offline PizzaHog

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 10:20:22 AM »
Pretty cool Tman.  I actually hesitated to read this thru initially as it looked like a very long post for an easy to remember recipe.  Oops, guess this proves what happens when one assumes   :-[  .
This looks to be perfect for making pizza when away from home and all our familiar tools, ingredients and formulas.  I have received these requests in the past and always found it quite difficult.   
Pretty neat that the yeast, oil, and sugar end up close enough to 1% / tsp - makes for easy adjustment on the fly.
Thanks for working all this out and posting!
Hog

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 10:43:24 AM »
Hog,

It doesn't often happen but so long as I have Internet access when I am away and can get to the dough calculating tools and November's tools, I can come up with any desired dough formulation. Also, having worked with the Lehmann NY style recipe for so long, I have memorized the baker's percents and conversion factors for that recipe and know how to modify it to meet my needs. Of course, it takes a long while to get to that stage.

Peter

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 10:46:39 AM »
Pretty cool Tman.  I actually hesitated to read this thru initially as it looked like a very long post for an easy to remember recipe.  Oops, guess this proves what happens when one assumes   :-[  .
This looks to be perfect for making pizza when away from home and all our familiar tools, ingredients and formulas.  I have received these requests in the past and always found it quite difficult.   
Pretty neat that the yeast, oil, and sugar end up close enough to 1% / tsp - makes for easy adjustment on the fly.
Thanks for working all this out and posting!
Hog

Pizza Hog, I'm glad you read through it and posted a response.  I hope others will note the same thing you did and give it a fair shake.  You are right in my intentions.   The recipe is meant to KISS for the newb and the more expereinced member away from home without the tools we have become accustomed to.  Secondly it serves to show that its really OK to not measure exactly b/c it still falls within the ranges of baker's percents for a NY pie.   If it falls within this range, you will get a "NY Style" type pizza.  
  
This recipe is really not meant to be a recipe in it's most basic form, but rather to be a basic foundation of pizza making knowledge in which the user can adjust according to his/her likes and dislikes.

For example, personally I like a little more salt than the above recipe calls for.  So for each 230-250gm ball, I will use 3/4 of a tsp of salt instead of 1/2 tsp per doughball.  It really doesn't change anything except make the dough a bit salty to my liking but both fall within the acceptable ranges of a NY pie.  

I was very please to see Pizzalogy use this recipe and posted pics.  It shows that it's a competent recipe and technique and that he is able to read and follow simple directions.  

I really tried but wasn't able to post a less word y recipe and technique as the more I worked with it, the more questions came up that had to be addressed.   It took a good amount of effort on my end to try to simply and demystify basic home pizza making for the beginner.  I hope that I have achieved that goal and that others will try the recipe and let me know.  My ultimate goal is that it becomes the users very own base knowledge and recipe in which he/she can build upon.  

Tran
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 10:50:45 AM by Tranman »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 10:57:05 AM »
Hog,

It doesn't often happen but so long as I have Internet access when I am away and can get to the dough calculating tools and November's tools, I can come up with any desired dough formulation. Also, having worked with the Lehmann NY style recipe for so long, I have memorized the baker's percents and conversion factors for that recipe and know how to modify it to meet my needs. Of course, it takes a long while to get to that stage.

Peter

Yes Peter, but you'll look more like a pro without looking up a recipe and by measuring (most) of the ingredients by hand.  >:D 
As it is I'm sure you ARE able to just make a pie on the fly off the top of your head.   

Some of us are more comfortable measuring things out exactly to the nearsest decimal, while others are happy to eyeball measurements.  When we play board games, my wife insist that we follow ALL the rules of the game requiring equal numbers of players on each team, etc.  Me, I'm just there for the interaction with others and the laughs.  I could care less how points we have or don't. 


Offline Pizzalogy

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2010, 12:51:01 AM »
question: after you're finished working with the dough, are you supposed to let it rise at room temp at all or put it straight into the fridge if using the next day?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2010, 08:06:04 AM »
If following the recipe using 1 tsp of yeast (per 2 pizzas) with the intention of cold fermenting overnight, I would put it in fridge right away.

If using half of the yeast (1/2 tsp for 2 doughballs), then you can leave it on the counter for an hour (after kneading) prior to going into the fridge.  If you didn't let it sit for the extra hour it's no big deal, just proof it a bit longer when you pull it out of the fridge (2-3 hours).  BTW, with 1/2 of yeast, the dough should last 2 days in fridge (around 40F) if you wanted to let it cold ferment longer.

By cutting the yeast in half, it will buy you more time. More rest time prior to cold fermentation, more fridge time, and more proofing time (if need be). 

Pizzalogy, for another pizza experiment, you can quarter the amount of yeast (1/4 tsp for 2 pizzas) and let it cold ferment for 3-4 days max to see if you like the taste/texture better.  If you decide to do this, then definitely let it sit out on the counter for 2 hours prior to cold fermenting.  Hope that makes sense and helps.  Good luck and happy experimenting. 
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 05:23:50 PM by Tranman »

Offline Toperro

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 04:31:33 PM »
"b/c" what does it mean?
My english is from Google Translator, sorry...

Offline Matthew

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2010, 05:13:47 PM »
"b/c" what does it mean?

"because"

Offline ieat

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2010, 10:49:15 AM »
Hi Tranman,

I am happy to report success using your recipe!  Thanks a lot! This was baked on the G3 Ferrari, so it is a little small.  I am still figuring out the two stone method for my own oven.  But I am quite a happy guy today thanks to your great recipe.  I used the bread flour low hydration recipe but found I had to use 3 cups of bread flour instead of 2.75 cups.  Must be the humidity here in Singapore.

Your recipe is excellent as it is so easy to remember.  However, as you know, the final amt of flour is still very much determined by feel rather than exact measurements.  I used 1/2 teaspoon yeast because I did an overnight fermentation.

For those who are interested, the G3 Ferrari is a great machine except that you need an extra piece of equipment - an infrared thermometer.  That is the only way you can tell the temperature of the stone.  I found that putting the pizza in when the temperature is 260-280 degrees is just about right for a 5 minute bake.  Its not a big machine, so you could only do a smallish pizza.

Finished the pizza with a blowtorch for a bit more char.

Anyway here are my pics.  Not perfect by any means but much better than what I was doing before!




« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 11:02:02 AM by ieat »
Never waste your calories on yucky food!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2010, 11:04:20 AM »
Ieats, I forgot to ask what temp this pie was baked at and for approximately how long?  Can you show us the oven you used?

Thx

Offline ieat

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2010, 11:12:09 AM »
Tranman,  here is an article on the G3 Ferrari

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/14606/pizza-margherita-naturally-leavened

Sorry, I am too new so they don't allow me to post URLs.
Never waste your calories on yucky food!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2010, 11:28:44 AM »
Looks like someone fixed that. Ieats I'm happy to hear you used the blowtorch idea. Lol.  It was just an idea and I hadn't even tested it yet. Glad it work. :)

Offline Toperro

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2010, 12:34:22 PM »
The best recipe I've tried so far, thanks Tranman
My english is from Google Translator, sorry...

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: basic easy to remember NY Style dough recipe
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2010, 02:29:58 PM »
Toperro, I'm glad you tried the recipe and like it.  Thanks for posting pics as it helps other people get ideas and expand their learning.

Looks like you did a nice job overall.  There are some things you can improve but that's always the case with me.  It's your recipe now.  Please modify it to your liking.  If you want a more salty crust, just add a bit more salt.  Try it with and without the oil and sugar and see what difference it makes.  Use a combination of flours like member ieat and see if you like it better. 

The beauty of this recipe and technique is that it takes a lot of mystery out of pizza making for the beginner.  Once you get comfortable with it, you can easily go to a friends house or your grandma's house and make a pizza.  I'm hoping it will take the fear out of pizza making for a lot of beginners. 


 

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