Author Topic: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray  (Read 571 times)

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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« on: May 25, 2015, 03:07:12 PM »
Guys..what am I doing wrong?

I have gray  looking pizzas

I probably should have done control pies in home oven, but didn't. These are BS pies, two different dough recipes, both poolishes.    No mixer, all by hand   

On left is 66% and right is 62%. Both no oil, no sugar. Combination of total room temp ferment ( 30 hrs for  62%, and 25 hours for 66%, plus 5-6 days in fridge, balled just 12-ish hours before bake) IDY .05% in final dough. .1 % in poolish (so not sure how top calculate true total)  Launched in BS between 660 and 670, then heat lowered and  total bake time about 6 minutes. Flavor and eating texture not bad, but visually not good at all.

 ANy thoughts/help appreciated!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 03:11:52 PM by Jersey Pie Boy »


Offline Bobino414

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2015, 03:34:05 PM »
Did you mix the dough in a metal container?  If yes check for an oxidized film which could turn the dough gray.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 03:47:58 PM by Bobino414 »

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2015, 04:16:52 PM »
Did a dry skin form on the dough at any point? What kind of bench flour did you use? Is this BS bake the first time you've had this problem?

They look a bit dry/overdone on my screen.  :-\
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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2015, 04:52:10 PM »
Bobino, nope..plastic...

Steve, no dry skin, AP bench flour, this isn't the first time I've noticed this, but yes, they do seem to be a bit overdone, possible that after launch temp, I didn't turn the BS dial down far enough..but it's the fact that they're sort of a uniform greyness rather than some darker, more baked areas that concerns me. The fermentation felt about right; the skins normal, though the 62 for some reason was tearing while being shaped.  Maybe just a day or so too long in fridge, but I don't  think  that explains the uniform  greyness.  But yeah, they may be overdone..it just might be that simple..possibly this was 6 minutes into a 4 minute bake ;)

Offline vtsteve

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2015, 06:50:32 PM »
I think that between RT and fridge time, the dough got too acidic - the longer RT dough tore, and acid inhibits browning.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2015, 06:52:43 PM »
Bill,

That is odd. Did you dough look anything like the dough shown in the second photo in Reply 29 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3985.msg36081#msg36081 ?

Peter

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2015, 08:51:45 PM »
Pete, maybe just a little. I did see some small brown specks in the dough before I did the Fazzari-style late balling, but wasn't getting big bubbles. The dough handled as usual when i did the balling, and the first ball of the 66% the night before didn't look so grey. I could show a pix of a leftover slice from the freezer but  oiled the crust so it wouldn't be a fair comparison .

 I will say that the 62 version the night before looked grey but I felt it was because I launched at too low a temp. What I had originally planned to do this morning was to bake these two pizzas in the home oven as a control. In retrospect, that's' exactly what I should have done...then I  could have isolated whether the issue was the dough or the bake.  There isn't an easy correlation between steel in  home oven and the BS, and I suspect that's the root of my trouble here.

Steve, you might be right on target but I've often gone this long before without ill effect, but have baked in home oven. The tearing dough surprised me though.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2015, 09:11:28 PM »
Bill,

In all my years on the forum, I don't ever recall seeing a gray crust. In the example I cited, the gray dough baked up normally. Since I can't think of any chemistry or other dough science that would explain your results, I'm inclined to blame the oven.

Peter

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2015, 09:33:19 PM »
Thanks Peter..Surely operator error.  That's actually very helpful because it limits the variables. That's what I was thinking..and I've noticed and been bothered by a certain greyness to  dough (even though it looks fine on peel) as it bakes on the BS..It must be the temperature of my launch that's the issue. Nobody knows dough better than you, so I really appreciate your input.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2015, 09:49:56 PM »
Looks like excess bench flour from here.
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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2015, 10:10:56 PM »
That's certainly at least part of it, Craig. In fact, I saw that and wiped some off before making photos, but some may have baked on and   been part  of the issue.  So maybe a combination of somewhat overdone, making it  dark and a patina of bench flour, making it appear gray ?..because while these were strictly for test and the toppings not really anything much at all, the flavor was decent to good)

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2015, 10:18:12 PM »
That's certainly at least part of it, Craig. In fact, I saw that and wiped some off before making photos, but some may have baked on and   been part  of the issue.  So maybe a combination of somewhat overdone, making it  dark and a patina of bench flour, making it appear gray ?..because while these were strictly for test and the toppings not really anything much at all, the flavor was decent to good)

That what it looks like to me.
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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2015, 10:20:35 PM »
Thanks for the help!

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2015, 10:35:27 PM »
Another thing to look at is the ash content of the flour. Flour with an ash content above 0.6% will have a decidedly dull appearance to it which can translate into a gray colored finished crumb structure. The appearance of brown flecks in the dough would indicate the presence of bran which in turn would indicate a high ash content in the flour. To test this you might see if you can find a flour with an ash content of 0.57 or lower. You might Google your flour to see if the manufacturer/miller has the flour specifications posted on line.
Aside from this, the excessive use of dusting flour can also result in something of a gray crust color. Some things that I've done in the past to address poor crust color are to brush the edge of the dough with water immediately before placing it in the oven, or you might also try brushing it with a little oil to see if that helps. Occasionally, I've found that creating a moist atmosphere in the oven helps with crust color problems too, here I place a cake pan with a little water in it about 5-minutes before I put the dressed dough skin in the oven, be sure to remove the pan of water just before you close the oven door.
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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2015, 11:01:25 PM »
Thanks Tom!..I did brush some oil on the crust of two of the pies the night before, and they looked good, not grey. Didn't brush any on these test pies because I thought I needed to keep them as simple as possible for clarity of  results.

I just checked ash content ( I used Gold Medal Bread flour which I understand is the same as Harvest King..that's .52 ash, so I think I'm okay there. I think I just didn't get enough bench flour off the doughs..they were both on the wet side after the long fridge rests and somewhat sticky leaving their containers. I'd gladly lower the hydration if i thought it wouldn't adversely affect the lightness of my crumb, but I've never fully understood that relationship. Can I still get a nice light crumb at say, 60 %..or should I stay in the low-mid-60's. Will I get lighter results yet at 70%?  I came in to pizzamaking from the Jim Lahey 70% side of things..but then, his recipes don't include multiple days in the fridge.

 

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2015, 10:24:52 PM »
JPB;
If the dough is so sticky that you need to use all that dusting flour and it won't come off after forming the pizza skin, I'd be inclined to reduce the dough absorption until I got a better handling (less sticky) dough. Keep in mind that you can improve the way a soft dough handles by putting a little oil on your hands and on the bench top too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Sauce is red..Crust is Gray
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2015, 11:03:05 PM »
Thanks Tom..I haven't tried the oiled hands or counter techniques yet..those would be during shaping? When you say reduce the dough absorption, that means the same as reducing the hydration level?

I do think all my doughs are tending to be wet, and I think the multi-day fridge time is a big factor, right? This morning for testing, I made a Glutenboy on Day 8. His recipe is designed for those long CF's, I think .and I used the exact hydration he called for - 62%. But I used the GM BF, and maybe he's using HG?  If so,  to get the right  results, do I need to reduce hydration by a point or 2 or 3? 

Thanks Tom!


 

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