Author Topic: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie  (Read 25899 times)

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Offline ieat

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2010, 09:00:23 AM »
Hi Tranman,

This is my very first post.  I love the look of your pie and notice you managed to do this in an ordinary oven.

Could you point me to the part of the forum where I can find the recipe for this?
Never waste your calories on yucky food!


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2010, 10:49:21 AM »
Thxs ieat, I appreciate the compliment.  I'm always experimenting so the recipe changes constantly.  You can duplicate what I've done quite easily with almost any recipe.  It just takes a little practice and some patience.

I can get any dough recipe to look like that by doming or rimming the edge of the pizza against the broiler while it's running.  This is done after the bake if you haven't gotten the desired browness on top.  My oven browns the very top of the crust too quickly but not the sides of the rim, so I have to resort to using this technique.  Here's the link to the technique.  Look at the last 3 pictures to see the difference b/t not "rimming" and rimming the pie against the broiler.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10783.0.html

The specific recipe I used above is a modified jeff varasano recipe.  If you are new to pizza making and don't have a scale or a mixer, I have posted a recipe and hand kneading technique that is very similar to the recipe used to create those pies in this thread.  It can be found in the link below.  It's a lengthy read but worthwhile for the beginner.   Just pick out the recipe for the flour you are using and follow the hand kneading technique and you should get a decent pie.  Also use the rimming technique to get the extra browning.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10789.0.html

ieats, the Lehmann dough recipe is also a great recipe.  It is the most popular recipe and can be found in the link below.  You can also use this recipe with the hand kneading techniques I've described and the rimming technique to make your pies look like mine. 

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.0.html

Good luck and do post up some pictures of your pizzas good or bad.  Oh yeah, are you using an electric or gas oven?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 11:04:03 AM by Tranman »

Offline ieat

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2010, 11:27:37 AM »
Hi Tran,

I have been experimenting with jeffrey steingarten's recipe. But I have never achieved the cornicione like yours.  I am now making another batch of dough based on your 2.75 cup breadflour recipe.  I do have a Kitchen Aid.  So I did what you said.  What I learnt from your post is the tip to mix the flour and water well before autolysis.  I did let the KA knead the dough for 5 minutes before adding the final 25% of flour as per Varasano.  Now it is just resting for a while before I divide it into balls.

I have an electric oven, which only goes to 250 degrees C with a pizza stone.  It is very hard to get the char at the bottom.  I now also have a G3 Ferrari and still trying to make it work.

I used half teaspoon of yeast because I plan to use the dough only tomorrow.  So it is going into the fridge overnight. 

Tomorrow, I will try using the G3 Ferrari and see how it goes.  If you can point me to some thread that talks about how to use both the electric oven that only goes to 250 degrees C and G3 Ferrari, that would help immensly.  I hope to post a pie like yours one day.

Thanks very much for your help! 
Never waste your calories on yucky food!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2010, 11:44:33 AM »
ieat, it sounds like you are well on your way.  From your post, I can tell you've been doing lots of reading and experimenting. 

IMO, adding all the flour vs 75% for the autolyse is really only useful for added gluten development and cuts down on hand kneading time.  If you are using the KA mixer you can add all or 75% and it won't make much difference. 

Cutting the yeast is a smart idea.  That stuff is powerful. 

Unfortunately I haven't been reading up on how to best use the electric oven.  Maybe you can start a new thread if you don't find much info.  Depending on where your heating element is.  Do you think you get even heating from the top and bottom.  From the little I've read, it sounds like the 2 stone technique works well.

You may have to bake on the bottom stone near the heating element and then move the pie up under the top stone to brown but I'm not sure.  Another trick to browning the edge is if you have a MAPP torch.  You can take that to the rim for extra browning as well. 

Offline hotsawce

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2010, 01:34:00 PM »
What do you mean by the two stone technique? The stone that is cooked on and a stone on the rack above it to reflect heat down?

If that's it, I'll be trying that soon.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2010, 02:00:41 PM »
Yes HS. That is one setup you should try. The top stone can also be a cast iron pan but I think you are already familiar with that technique. These stones or thick CI can give off higher heat than what the oven dial reads if it's close enough to the heating element.

I don't have an electric oven or even a CI pan but these are just some things I've read about on the forum.
I'll see if I can find some threads later.   

HS I was actually thinking earlier the 2 stones would be far apart. One very low and the other high up right under the top heating element.  Try it out and let us all know.  You would bake on the bottom stone to brown the bottom and then move the pie up high either under the element directly or under a stone that been heating.  I'm guessin you'd wan it very close to take advantage of the heating reflecting off. 

 
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 02:03:21 PM by Tranman »

Offline ieat

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2010, 10:32:31 PM »
Thanks Tranman.  Very frustrating when you have an oven that only goes to about 500 F.  I am not brave enough to tweak my oven like some others.  So that is why I bought a G3 Ferrari. 

Will do some research into the two stone technique.  Heston Blumental's technique of using a Cast Iron skillet might be one answer but it is not good when you have to bake a few pizzas.  Will look around the forum for the answer.  But if anyone can post the link that would be great!
Never waste your calories on yucky food!

Offline hotsawce

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2010, 10:34:43 PM »
The two stone method is likely better than heston's method.

I tried the cast iron method, and it just scorched the bottom of the pie. I'd go for the two stone method and shoot for about a 6 minute bake in the home oven. It's entirely achievable, (though I haven't quite made it there yet.)

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2010, 11:43:52 PM »
HS, have you tried baking the pizza on a stone and using the CI pan over the pizza?  That high heat coming off of the pan might be better use to brown the top than the bottom.

Also if the pan is scorching the bottom, you may try movig it away from the heat source or adding a pan between the pie and the CI pan.

Ieats, believe me I know that it can be fustrating but keep at it. I ALWAYS and truely believe that there is a simple answer right in front of us. All we have to do is find it. Not always easy solving the riddle but there is an easy answer.  I once heard a quote that stated, "you're bound to be successful if you're persistant enough" (or something along that line).

Half of my experiments are unsuccessful but Im going to keep at it.  Just last night I drilled into my pampered chef pizza stone for an experiment and ultimately cracked it BUT from that I came up with a different solution that I'll be testing tomorrow night.  I try to keep it fun and light hearted.  I REFUSE to give up and order out! Lol.

Anyways keep us posted on your results.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 11:45:35 PM by Tranman »

Offline hotsawce

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2010, 12:03:49 AM »
I may try preheating the oven with the CI pan directly over the stone on the next highest rack. So both the stone and the pan absorb heat...I'll let you guys know how that works out.

Another option would be heating the pan on the stove until its super hot amd popping it in with the pizza, but idk how that would work.


Offline ieat

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2010, 08:50:43 AM »
Hi Tranman,

I am happy to report success using your recipe!  Thanks a lot! This was baked on the G3 Ferrari, so it is a little small.  I am still figuring out the two stone method for my own oven.  But I am quite a happy guy today thanks to your great recipe.  I used the bread flour low hydration recipe but found I had to use 3 cups of bread flour instead of 2.75 cups.  Must be the humidity here in Singapore

Anyway here are my pics.  Not perfect by any means but much better than what I was doing before!

Never waste your calories on yucky food!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2010, 10:31:26 AM »
Ieat. CONGRATS!!! it sounds like you've just taken your pizza to the next level. Your pie looks awesome!  I would say it looks even better than mine. I'm glad you tried the recipe and posted pics.  If you don't mind, do post your pie in that thread with some details of any changes you made so that it may encourage others to try it.
   
How did the crust taste? Was it a little dry at all?  My goal is to always get a crunchy outter crust and a soft moist crumb. Your crumb looks fantasic. Also if you could, do post a pic of the g3 oven. I'm not familiar with it but it sounds like it does a good job.

Again, congrats. It really looks like you made your "perfect" pie today. 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 10:38:34 AM by Tranman »

Offline ieat

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2010, 10:47:00 AM »
Thanks Tran.  You know what, I really can't tell you if I have achieved what I am looking for in terms of the taste.  Believe it or not, I only imagine what a pizza napoletana should taste like because we don't have it here in Singapore.  So I can only imagine the taste based on what I see on the internet. I have to visit Naples one day and find out!

Will post the photos on the other thread as well thanx!
Never waste your calories on yucky food!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2010, 10:58:44 AM »
Ieats you should try a 00 flour and a neopolitan recipe for a pie closer to neopolitan style.  In the meantime, try to see if you can reproduce your results to hone your skill. to get more flavor from the crust, look into making and using your own starters. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your pies.   

Offline hotsawce

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2010, 12:11:49 PM »
That is a stunning looking pie.

Can you tell us, exactly, was is the G3 Ferrari? Where did you get one and how much did it cost and how long did it cook that pie in, because it really looks delicious.

Offline ieat

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2010, 01:20:08 PM »
Oh, the G3 Ferrari is a portable pizza oven.  I got mine second hand.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,274.40.html
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Offline hotsawce

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2010, 01:21:07 PM »
Can you take a picture of the particular model? I may pick one up if I can. Better than the home oven?

Offline hotsawce

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2010, 02:11:37 PM »
Oh, and do you have any idea what temp that was cooked at? I was reading some people had trouble getting those ovens to cook the bottom and top equally, but your pie looks amazing. What's your secret?

Does the stone in the g3 rotate, or is it close to the pizza bella oven, which I may try to find.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 02:22:38 PM by hotsawce »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2010, 03:00:17 PM »
HS he posted details of the temp and time in the "easy to remember NY pizza recipe" thread. He also took a torch to the crust for added browning.

Offline hotsawce

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Re: That elusive yet "Perfect" pie
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2010, 03:01:19 PM »
Ah, I didn't see that.