Author Topic: Drive-In Theatre Pizza  (Read 13953 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2010, 11:53:54 AM »
The AP flour dough did work nice for the first couple of hours, but by intermission, it started to jump the shark a little. Man, I have a lot to learn & I'm making all of the rookie mistakes, but it does get better with every batch of dought I make. Here are pics. of the AP flour, & the results. I want a foldable slice that dosen't droop.


crazybob,

Thanks for sharing how the AP flour worked out with pictures.  :)  You will learn if you keep experimenting.

How did your pizzas turn out last night using the Pillsbury High-Gluten.  I would be interested is hearing of your results using the different flour.

Norma


Offline crazybob

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2010, 12:41:06 PM »
Hi, Norma & the gang! Here's a pizza I made last night with the HG/balancer flour. I made the dough balls 18.5 oz.,by mistake, instead of 16.5. I made several batches late last night, of 16.5. It should be thinner tonight. I get 13 doughballs per batch... (I should save up & get a 40qt. mixer!..lol)

My food service delivery driver told me about a product call "dough extender" that comes in 50lb. bags. He owns a pizza/sub shop, but he said that he uses frozen dough balls. I have more time on my hands, so I'm trying to keep it real (or reel).

Offline norma427

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2010, 01:15:06 PM »
Hi, Norma & the gang! Here's a pizza I made last night with the HG/balancer flour. I made the dough balls 18.5 oz.,by mistake, instead of 16.5. I made several batches late last night, of 16.5. It should be thinner tonight. I get 13 doughballs per batch... (I should save up & get a 40qt. mixer!..lol)

My food service delivery driver told me about a product call "dough extender" that comes in 50lb. bags. He owns a pizza/sub shop, but he said that he uses frozen dough balls. I have more time on my hands, so I'm trying to keep it real (or reel).

crazybob,

Your pizzas from last night look delicious!  ;D  In my opinion I don't think you will need the dough extender.  Your pizzas look great without it.  I never tried any dough extenders, but the Pillsubury Balancer should be fine without it.  My local pizza man uses the same flour and doesn't use any dough extenders. 

LOL about getting the bigger mixer.  :-D That could run you some serious money, but if you keep up like you are doing that could be a possibility. 

Thanks for keeping us filled in how your are doing with your pizzas.

Anyway I can help, just let me know,

Norma

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2010, 03:15:48 PM »
Thanks for posting your results with pics, Crazybob.  It looks like you are definitely on your way.  I've enjoyed following your odyssey of the wonderful world of pizza-making. 

How have your latest creations been received by your patrons?  How do you think the results are going?  Are they what you are looking to achieve, or close?

Keep us up to date on your progress. :chef:

P.S.  I agree with Norma.  I would leave out the dough extender, at least for now, and just keep doing what you're doing.

-ME
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 03:18:24 PM by Mad_Ernie »
Let them eat pizza.

Offline crazybob

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2010, 01:01:53 PM »
The customers love the pizza, but I still don't have it right. Overnight, the dough balls grew togther to form a tray of puffy dough. I cut it apart, & re-weighed it to 16.5 oz. I had used yeast from a new package of IDY. I put the new dough balls in 1 gal. ziplock bags, instead of the tray. The HG flour seems to yield more dough that the AP. The HG makes a thicker pizza than the AP. I wanted a thinner pizza, but the customers seem to like the thicker rimmed crust like in the picture above. I took the pic just before I added the peporoni. They wanted chicken, so I deep fried a spicy chicken patty & cut it up. They also wanted ham, green pepper, & sausage. I charge .99per topping on the 14"(9.99), & .49 per topping on the 9" (4.99)

I think that I need to reduce the size of the dough ball to make a 14" pizza? Thanks, Bob. You can follow more on  My facebook fan page. Its: Crazy Bob's Harvest Moon Drive-In Theatre. We just got our 1000th fan. I stopped adertising in the Williamsport Sun Gazatte!

Offline norma427

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2010, 01:43:54 PM »
crazybob,

Itís great to hear your customers love your pizza.  You will get it right.  It has a lot to do with dough management.  Do you take the temperature of your final dough?  You might need to use cooler water in your dough mix, to achieve a final dough temperature of between 80-85 degrees F.  Right now with the current formula I am using, I need to get a lower final dough temperature than that.  I shoot for around 73 degrees F, but that doesnít apply to the regular Lehmann dough. What temperature do you keep the place where the dough is stored?  Also dough management has to do with balling up your dough right after weighing it and then directly into the deli case.  I think, if I remember right that you donít use lids on your dough trays.  The dough needs to cool down fast, so it doesnít overferment.   

I am not sure if you want a thinner pizza what dough weight you might go to.  I think, but am not sure that the standard NY style is around 0.10.  If you go to the Lehmann Calculator at: http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html, you can put in a thickness factor and go from there.  I find I can stretch my pizza thinner just by opening the dough more. 

See if someone else can help you, also.  I am glad to hear your are doing so well with your pizzas.  :)

Since I am not an expert on all this and still learning myself, I hope this has helped you some.

Iíll look at your Facebook,

Norma

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2010, 02:18:17 PM »
crazybob,

The high-gluten flour should yield a dough with a more developed gluten structure that should hold more gases of fermentation and hold them longer. That will mean that you are likely to see more dough expansion than you will get using a weaker flour like the all-purpose flour you have been using.

If you want to see the general procedures that Tom Lehmann recommends for making pizza dough, see Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7953.msg68396/topicseen.html#msg68396. In my experience, when people have problems with their pizza dough in a commercial setting it is often because they have not followed all of the steps properly. Of course, individual cases can vary depending on the equipment used, the type of storage conditions, and other factors unique to a given situation.

Peter

Offline crazybob

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2010, 02:52:33 PM »
Hi, Norma. I weigh, & make balls right after the dough is made. The water is around 100 degrees. I will check the dough temp. I put six balls in the white, plastic trays from Resaurant Depot. I do cover  the top tray & put them in the cooler (40 degrees) for 16-18 hrs.

The Lehmann Calculator is neat (if I can figue it out better)(I have math anxiety!)
Maybe I should leave out the sugar? I might go back to the AP flour, & leave the sugar in?

Hi Peter. Thank you so much for the NY Pizza doh link! I was putting in the flour first, then the water, & then everything else! My problem will be cross stacking the trays. I only have cooler room to down-stack 4 trays.

..Stay tuned for my next adventure! This is fun!

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2010, 02:59:32 PM »
crazybob,

The cross stacking is important because it allows the dough balls to cool down faster. Otherwise, the heat can get trapped in the dough boxes and the dough balls can ferment too fast. Often when that happens you can end up with all of the dough balls running into each other in the dough box and making a real mess. There is really not much that you can do to get around that problem, like using colder water or less yeast. Those measures don't usually work.

Peter


Offline crazybob

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2010, 03:14:27 PM »
Yes it was the bottom two trays where the dough balls ran together. Probably heat was trapped in there!. Maybe instead of the trays, how about the Glad/bowls or plastic freezer bags that some use? (I may have to get a walk in cooler next.) I only sell about 2-3 dozen pizzas a night (Fri, Sat.) Thanks, Bob.

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2010, 03:50:03 PM »
Bob,

As you can see from this PMQ Think Tank thread, http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7668&start=0, there are some pizza operators who use sheet trays instead of dough boxes. However, you will need some kind of racking system to hold the sheet trays, which may or may not work in your cooler. I think it should be possible to use individual storage containers such as our members use but I have read very little about that approach being used by professionals. However, Jeff Varasano, who used Glad storage containers when he was making pizzas at home, continued to use them when he opened his pizzeria, as you note from the YouYube video at .

Norma may also be able to give you some insights about using individual storage bags to hold the dough balls and how that approach might be used in your particular setting.

Peter

Offline crazybob

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2010, 04:13:51 PM »
Thanks, Peter. I saw the youtube, where Jeff Varasano(the rubik's cube guy), uses the glad containers. I also saw one where Norma uses the plastic bags. Between youtube, & pizzamaking.com, I was inspired to kick it a a notch, by serving the very best drive-in pizza in the country! I do read the PMQ too. It's was intimindating at first, because we are just a rookie, Mom & Pop operation, & I felt more comfertable here. I will probably registar on PMQ soon. I guess we all started at one time. Thanks, again for all of your help. If any of you are in the area, please give us a visit at the drive-in. You will get the royal treatment!

Offline norma427

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2010, 05:17:56 PM »
crazybob,

This is how I store my dough balls.  They are in plastic bags on a lid.  I donít have storage room to use dough trays and this is what Tom Lehmann recommended for me to use.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg97317.html#msg97317

I also had problems with my dough running together, when I first starting making pizza.  When you have multiple dough balls to deal with, it is much harder than trying to handle a few.  Here is what my dough balls looked like before I got everything under control, so donít feel bad, you also will get this all down.  I also used sugar in my dough then.  Go down to the third picture.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8341.msg75733.html#msg75733

If you look though that thread, you will see all the problems I had when I started making dough.  I since have learned to manage the dough better.  You also will learn.  :)

When the weather gets warmer, getting a final dough temperature between 75-85 degrees F is really important.  I sometimes need to use water I have stored in the deli case.

If you need help with the Lehmann calculator either I will help or someone else will.  I also found all this intimating when I first started.  I am math challenged, too.

In my opinion you shouldn't give up on the high-gluten flour yet.  It can work very good.

Anything thing else I or anyone else can help with, just ask. 

Norma
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 05:21:36 PM by norma427 »

Offline crazybob

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2010, 01:53:18 AM »
Hi, Norma. I looked through the thread link & leaned alot! Thanks. I see that you use a 16 oz. ball to make a 16" pizza. I would like to stay with 14" because I sell it for 9.99. Should I use a 14 oz dough ball? I was at 16.5.

Hi Peter. I discovered that I can cross-stack trays in my Pepsi cooler, in the back kitchen. I took this pic of 4 empty trays to see if they would fit. Looks like I'm back in business! Now I got to get Pepsi to bring me another cooler!

Offline norma427

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2010, 06:32:15 AM »
crazybob,

If you look at the Lehmann dough calculator at: http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html  you can see how  a 14" pizza can be figured out.  I still am not sure if you want to stick with a hydration of 58%.  I will figured the dough formula out for 58%, but if you want a higher hydration, either just ask or try to see if you can work the calculator.  My pizza are a little thinner than 0.10, but I will just use that for now.  I still am not sure how much sugar you want to use in your dough. I donít use any sugar in my dough. If you put in a thickness factor of 0.10 and keep the rest of the ingredients the same, the formula will be.

Flour (100%):    4125.68 g  |  145.53 oz | 9.1 lbs
Water (58%):    2392.89 g  |  84.41 oz | 5.28 lbs
IDY (0.30%):    12.38 g | 0.44 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.11 tsp | 1.37 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):    72.2 g | 2.55 oz | 0.16 lbs | 5.01 tbsp | 0.31 cups
Oil (1%):    41.26 g | 1.46 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.17 tsp | 3.06 tbsp
Total (161.05%):   6644.41 g | 234.37 oz | 14.65 lbs | TF = 0.1015
Single Ball:   442.96 g | 15.62 oz | 0.98 lbs

If you look at the Lehmann roadmap you can see what is says about the Lehmann dough.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1453.msg13193.html#msg13193.

If you want to add sugar, like you have been doing, I think it can be added at 1-2% by the weight of the flour.

This is the formula if sugar is added at 1.5% by weight of flour.

Flour (100%):    4087.61 g  |  144.18 oz | 9.01 lbs
Water (58%):    2370.81 g  |  83.63 oz | 5.23 lbs
IDY (0.30%):    12.26 g | 0.43 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.07 tsp | 1.36 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):    71.53 g | 2.52 oz | 0.16 lbs | 4.97 tbsp | 0.31 cups
Oil (1%):    40.88 g | 1.44 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.08 tsp | 3.03 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):    61.31 g | 2.16 oz | 0.14 lbs | 5.13 tbsp | 0.32 cups
Total (162.55%):   6644.41 g | 234.37 oz | 14.65 lbs | TF = 0.1015
Single Ball:   442.96 g | 15.62 oz | 0.98 lbs

If you note there is a bowl residue added of 1.5

I hope I figured this out right for you.  If not, maybe someone will give you some more advise. 

Norma

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2010, 01:50:05 AM »
I made a batch of dough tonight, & it was the best one yet. I followed the above recipe to a "T", plus the NY pizza DOH guidelines. I got 15, 15.6 oz. dough ball, with an oz. or two left over.

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2010, 07:45:33 AM »
crazybob,

Great to hear your batch was the best one yet.   ;D Your dough looks great.  It is important to follow everything to the T.  If you are in an air-conditioned place, you should be okay.  Where my stand is, I am not in air conditioned place, so I have to manage my dough differently.  You should be able to keep you dough balls out for 1-3 hours while opening the dough.  If you see they are starting to bubble too much, then put them back into you cooler.  Let the dough warm up between the 1-3 hours.  This will let the dough open easier and also prevent bubbling when placing the pizza in the oven. 

What temperature do you keep your ovens?  I played around with different oven temperatures.  After you try this current formula, you might find that you would like a higher hydration, meaning more water.  It is easy to figure that out on the Lehmann dough calculator, just by putting in a higher number for the percentage of hydration and keeping the other numbers the same.  I am not sure how much hydration the Pillsbury Balancer will take, because I am not familiar with what protein content that flour has. 

I hope you did cover you dough balls after taking the picture, or they will dry out and form skins on your dough.

You have come a long way, and I hope your pizzas go well this weekend.  Thanks for showing the pictures.

Best of luck,

Norma


Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2010, 09:31:48 AM »
Bob:

The pictures look good and help to tell the story of your pizza pilgrimage.  Welcome to the insanity! :-D

I continue enjoying reading your posts.  Please keep them coming and maybe give us some more pics of your final product. 

How are your customers reacting to these changes in your pizza?

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2010, 09:59:40 AM »
crazybob,

That's good news. I also see that you mustered up the courage to use the Lehmann dough calculating tool. I think you will find it useful if there is a need to modify the Lehmann dough recipe for any reason. From the dough formulation shown in the first photo, it appears that you used the Morton's Kosher salt, a container of which is shown in a later photo, along with a container of the Diamond Crystal salt. You can use either brand of Kosher salt in the Lehmann tool. For those who are interested, the pizza size entered into the Lehmann tool is 14". The nominal thickness factor is 0.10 and the bowl residue compensation is 1.5%.

FYI, if you want to play around with different oils or oil blends, or if you want to add or change ingredients (like substituting honey for table sugar), you can use the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html.

As Norma mentioned, you might try using a higher hydration at some point. You might try inching up the hydration gradually by a percent at a time until you feel you have optimized the results based on your ability to open up the dough balls and the performance of the dough in your particular oven. Ownership of the Pillsbury brand has bounced around a bit in recent years (I believe that General Mills now owns it) and I am not sure what the protein content of the Balancer flour now is, but most high-gluten flours can handle a hydration of around 63%. Most pizza operators tend not to go that high but it is doable. You should be able to get a more open and airy crumb with the higher hydration but the dough will also ferment a bit faster. You will have to find the sweet spot for your particular situation.

Peter

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2010, 05:38:37 PM »
I ordered a 50lb. of high-gluten from my food service. They brought me this so-strong Pilsbury. Is this simular to balancer? I pulled a tray of balls out of the cooler at 5pm. We open at 7pm. They didn't grow much like last weeks batch. I'll be back later tonight with the results. Here's my little work area. The vintage pizza table was a standard in many drive-ins, where I've worked since the 60's. ..The Bakers Pride P-1 oven too!

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2010, 06:01:36 PM »
crazybob,

I recently did some research on that flour when another member mentioned it. I discussed what I found at Reply 77 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg96810.html#msg96810. I have not seen the specs for the Pillsbury Balancer flour but it appears to me that the Pillsbury So Strong flour should work for your application. However, you should take note of any differences that might govern which flour you might buy next time.

Peter

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2010, 06:19:39 PM »
I ordered a 50lb. of high-gluten from my food service. They brought me this so-strong Pilsbury. Is this simular to balancer? I pulled a tray of balls out of the cooler at 5pm. We open at 7pm. They didn't grow much like last weeks batch. I'll be back later tonight with the results. Here's my little work area. The vintage pizza table was a standard in many drive-ins, where I've worked since the 60's. ..The Bakers Pride P-1 oven too!

crazybob,

I just looked on Pillsbury's website and it looks like both flours are from spring wheat and high-gluten flours, if I wasn't reading it wrong.  I typed in Pillsbury So Strong Special versus Pillsbury Balancer in Google. 

If this information is correct they dough should work okay.  Some of my dough didn't have any rise either, when used the next day. 

Other high-gluten flour that are bromated are All Trumps and Kyrol.  I used both of these before.  I now use King Arthur Sir Lancelot flour.  It is non bromated.  Maybe you could ask your distributor if they carry the All Trumps or Kyrol flour or just make sure they understand what kind of flour you want to purchase.  My distributor for cheese and sauce one time substituted another kind of sauce and had loaded it in my van.  I didn't realize it until I got it to market.  I had to run back again and get the right kind.

Your vintage pizza table is nice.  :)  I like anything vintage or antique. 

Best of luck to you tonight and will be looking forward to hearing how everything went,

Norma

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2010, 03:56:25 AM »
Here are some friday night pictures. This was the balancer. I just made a 15lb batch of so-strong. It seemed no different from the balancer. I'll check tomorrow to see if that holds true.

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2010, 08:39:57 AM »
Here are some friday night pictures. This was the balancer. I just made a 15lb batch of so-strong. It seemed no different from the balancer. I'll check tomorrow to see if that holds true.

crazybob,

Your dough looks fine and I don't think you are going to have problems with the Pillsbury So Strong, because it is a high-gluten flour that is bromated.  It looks like your dough opened okay.  Did you get the desired 14" pizza you were looking for and was it thinner like you wanted?

Best of luck tonight,

Norma

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Re: Drive-In Theatre Pizza
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2010, 10:53:34 AM »
Hi, Norma. The dough opened up nicely into a 14" skin! I did the way I saw you doing it in your video. I even put on a show & tossed & spun it in the air! I always wanted to do that since back in the 50's! No tears or holes! It wasn't as thin as Macks, but it tasted  alot like one. It was was cripsy & chewy.  It will get better with experience.

I'll try to get someone to take a pic of me tossing one tonight. I'll try to make a video, but I may have problems uploading it up here due to slow internet (air card). We were packed last night. We should be more packed tonight, & sold out on Sunday because of the all night, Dusk to Dawn show.