Author Topic: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?  (Read 46069 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2010, 11:51:44 AM »
I did get a call back from Megan at Ultra-thin.  She said flour used in the pizza shells is bromated.  There are no animal fats used in the dough, but I couldnít find out what kind of oil is used.  I asked if any sugar is used in the dough and at first she said yes and then checked over the ingredients used in the dough and said there are none listed.  I questioned her again, because I said on the nutritional facts it said sugar, but she said no sugar is added to the dough, after she asked someone else.

The price quote she gave me for a case of 14" ultra-thin pizza shell, 50 in a case was 69.30, including shipping from FedEx, two day shipping.  For a 12" ultra-thin pizza shell in a case of 50 including shipping from FedEx, the price quoted was 62.70.

Megan said for my Bakerís Pride deck oven the recommended temperature would be 500 degrees F.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


scott123

  • Guest
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2010, 12:24:38 PM »
Norma, I would explain to them that you have customers with allergies, and, before you place an order, you need them to scan a nutritional/ingredient label and email it to you. Once you have that, as long as you can recall what the pizzas at the food show tasted like, it shouldn't be that hard to reproduce.

$60 seems a lot to spend to get a list of ingredients/nutritional info.  It's not like fedexed shells are going to taste all that great.  I guarantee you that the ones they had at the food show were made that day/never frozen so the ones you're going to get won't be comparable.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2010, 12:49:15 PM »
scott123,

I did find the nutritional facts on Ultra-thin website.  I didnít ask about allergies, but did questioned them about sugar for customers that might be on low glycemic diets. 

I also wonder how the shells would taste after being shipped.  I didnít ask if they would be shipped with some kind of Styrofoam container with maybe U-tek material to keep the product cold.  I did just get a shipment from Foremost Farms for cheese and that shipment was in a really nice Styrofoam container.  It was still cold, but that product wasnít frozen. 

I will wait and see if  Kemosa finds this Ultra-thin product good when shipped by FedEx.  I also wonder how that will be. 

I have to look into how to calculate how this dough might be made.

I really donít think I will purchase this product, but wanted to see if I could get a sample to try.  For 25.00 shipping from FedEx, I donít think I will go for that route.

Thanks for your help,

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22138
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2010, 01:43:49 PM »
Norma,

Based on your recent posts, I think that something like the General Mills Full Strength flour, as detailed at http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/Flour_SpecSheet/FullStrength%20Enr%20Mal%20Bl%20Bro53381.doc, might come close to meeting the numbers given in the Ultra-Thin Nutrition Facts at http://www.ultrathinpizza.com/products/nutrition-labels/pdfs/ultrathinpizza-nutrition-facts-original-thin-crust-14inch-8.5oz.pdf for the 14" size that you are investigating. The GM Full Strength flour is a bleached bromated flour with a nominal protein content of 12.6%. It will take some work to determine how much flour is used because of dough losses during baking and the Nutrition Facts are for an 8-ounce serving whereas a baked Ultra-Thin 14" par-baked crust weighs 8.5 ounces. The Nutrition Facts also use rounding of numbers, which adds to the challenge of coming up with accurate numbers for the various ingredients.

The saturated fat content of the GM Full Strength flour is low but many oils, like olive oil and vegetable oil (soybean oil), also include saturated fats in far greater quantity than flour. I believe that just about all of the sat fat in the Ultra-Thin product comes from added oil. The GM Full Strength flour also contains some sodium but it is de minimus. That means that most of the sodium comes from salt added to the dough.

It might be helpful if you can get an ingredients list but I suspect that it would be quite broad--maybe something straightforward like flour, water, oil, salt, yeast. It is also possible that the yeast quantity is far greater than we might think. Doughs for thin-crust pizzas, like cracker-style doughs, often contain a lot of yeast for taste purposes. Such doughs are often rolled out so fermentation and getting a rise in the dough are secondary if you are going to roll the skins out anyway.

You are perhaps a few data points away from coming up with a test dough formulation, like hydration and mode of fermentation.

Do you have any bleached bromated flour with a protein content of around 12.6% to experiment with?

Peter

EDIT (4/15/14): For a current link to the Full Strength flour, see http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/full-strength-flour-bleached-bromated-enriched-malted-50-lb/53381000

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2010, 02:23:05 PM »
Peter,

I only have the Kryol and Pillsbury Balancer flours right now that are bleached and bromated.  I could also check my local Country Store to see is they carry General Mills Full Strength flour.  I was just at the Country store and purchased a pastry flour in combination with another flour, that I want to try in another experiment.

I will look what kind of vegetable or olive oils I have at home or at market.  I can understand that most of the salt would come from adding it to the dough. 

Since  more yeast might be added for flavor of the crust, do you have any ideas of where I should start with for the yeast?  I will be rolling this dough out.  As for fermentation, I donít believe they would give this ultra-thin dough a long ferment.  Maybe only a one day cold ferment.

I would think at this point there would be a lower hydration in trying this ultra-thin dough.  I donít know what your opinion on trying this Ultra-Thin dough is, but I was looking somewhere between 45-48% hydration, salt around 1% and olive oil or vegetable oil, in a higher amount of around 15-21 %.

Any thoughts about these numbers and percents would be appreciated,

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22138
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2010, 02:56:59 PM »
Norma,

I don't have any idea as to the amount of yeast, and there is nothing in the Ultra-Thin nutrition data that reveals that. I think I would have a better idea if I knew the type and duration of fermentation.

I think the best approach for the moment is to address the flour, salt and oil issues first since it seems possible to isolate the nutrition information that is unique to those three ingredients. For example, the sodium information is limited mainly to added salt and the fat information is limited mainly to added oil. The total carbs, dietary fiber, sugars and protein are more closely related to the flour.

As for the type of oil to use, I think I would go with olive oil only because it should add some flavor to the finished crust. The nutrition data does not suggest 15-21% oil. The data suggests much less than that.

If the quantities of ingredients for the main ingredients of the Ultra-Thin clone dough can be ascertained, maybe the hydration number can be calculated rather than just guessing at it.

I am thinking aloud here. I will have to stare at the numbers some more to get a better feel for things.

Peter

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22138
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2010, 06:02:24 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth two dough formulations below for you to consider. The main objective at this point is to get an idea as to extent of the dough weight losses during baking. In coming up with the dough formulations, I had to make several assumptions. First, I assumed that the flour is like the GM Full Strength flour, for the reasons earlier mentioned. If the Ultra-Thin company is using a flour with a different profile, which might also be a proprietary flour milled to Ultra-Thinís requirements, then the dough formulations will be different. Without more or better intelligence, there is no way to know if the differences will be material. Second, I assumed a dough weight loss of 5% and used that figure to modify the Ultra-Thin nutrition information to reflect that assumption. I ended up with an unbaked dough ball weight of 8.925 ounces for the 14Ē par-baked crust. For this amount of dough used to make a 14Ē skin, I calculated a thickness factor of 0.05798. Obviously, if the weight loss of the dough during par-baking is more than my estimated 5%, then that will mean that that thickness factor is too low and needs upward revision. That is the reason for the bake test.

From my analysis, I concluded that the bulk of the calories of the par-baked crust come from the flour. Since oil is used in the dough, there will be calories added by the oil also. Based on the Ultra-Thin nutrition data, and adjusting for the fats normally present in flour, I estimated that the amount of oil used in an Ultra-Thin 14Ē par-baked crust to be a bit over 1ľ t. It doesnít matter if the oil is olive oil or vegetable (soybean) oil. Based on the sodium content of the Ultra-Thin 14Ē par-baked crust, and adjusting for the sodium that naturally occurs in the flour, I concluded that the added salt comes to a bit over 1/3 t. For the yeast, I arbitrarily used 0.5% (IDY) coupled with an assumption that the dough would be cold fermented for one day. Increasing or decreasing the yeast quantity will affect the weights of the other ingredients, but yeast is so light that its affect on total weight should be negligible.

When I came up with the weights of all of the ingredients but for the water, and calculating their combined caloric contributions (the salt has zero calories and the yeast should be de minimus from a caloric standpoint), the best number that I could come up with for the hydration is around 38%. If that number is anywhere near correct, then the dough will not be the easiest to roll out. I suggest a rolling pin for this purpose and, for the preliminary test, not to use heat application, as by using your Hadco unit, to make rolling the dough out easier. That approach might be used in a later experiment if needed.

Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I came up with the following dough formulation for a single dough ball for a 14Ē par-baked crust:

Flour* (100%):
Water (38.2%):
IDY (0.50%):
Salt (1.16448%):
Olive Oil (3.21128%):
Total (143.07576%):
176.85 g  |  6.24 oz | 0.39 lbs
67.56 g  |  2.38 oz | 0.15 lbs
0.88 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.29 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
2.06 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
5.68 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.26 tsp | 0.42 tbsp
253.02 g | 8.92 oz | 0.56 lbs | TF = N/A
*General Mills Full Strength bromated flour
Note: Dough is for a single 14Ē par-baked crust; nominal thickness factor = 0.05798; no bowl residue compensation

Having worked with low hydration doughs before, I learned how difficult it can be to roll out such a dough to an given size and have the skin be perfectly round. For that reason, I suggest that you use the thickness factor option in the expanded dough calculating tool and use a pizza size of about 1Ē greater than the desired final size. In your case, you might use 15Ē as the pizza skin size and use a template to cut out a 14Ē skin after you have rolled out the dough to about 15Ē. Using this method, the dough formulation becomes:

Flour* (100%):
Water (38.2%):
IDY (0.50%):
Salt (1.16448%):
Olive Oil (3.21128%):
Total (143.07576%):
203.02 g  |  7.16 oz | 0.45 lbs
77.55 g  |  2.74 oz | 0.17 lbs
1.02 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.34 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.42 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
6.52 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.45 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
290.47 g | 10.25 oz | 0.64 lbs | TF = 0.05798
*General Mills Full Strength bromated flour
Note: Dough is for a 15Ē skin; no bowl residue compensation

You should feel free to use 16Ē in the dough calculating tool if you think that using 15Ē is cutting it too close.

In making the dough, you might also consider using a food processor. I found the food processor to be the best machine to use to make a low hydration dough. When using a food processor, I usually use a bowl residue compensation of 1%. I will also leave to you whether the skin should be docked before par-baking. I suspect that you did not notice whether the Ultra-Thin crusts you sampled evidenced docking.

Of course, you will want to weigh the 14" skin before and after baking, and note the difference.

I canít tell you that you will enjoy success with the above dough formulations. I do not have any particular expertise in matters of this sort, so it is possible that my assumptions and calculations are not completely correct. I have also encountered cases where nutrition information turned out to be incorrect. However, when I calculated the total calories from all sources, I came quite close to the Ultra-Thin number.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2010, 07:37:02 PM »
Peter,

I will look for the GM Full Strength flour at my local Country Store.  If I canít find that flour, I will try the first attempt with Kyrol flour.  I understand how dough losses weight when baked.  I will do a bake test first to see what kind of results there will be.
 
I am going to use your second formula for 15" crust  you set forth and try my food processor to mix the dough.  I can see at 38% hydration, this will be hard to roll out. I will note any problems. The flour will be sifted to see if that can help the flour hydrate better. I probably will use the expanded dough calculating tool and put in a bowl residue of 1%.  The dough will be weighed before and after the bake to note what difference there will be. 

I didnít notice if the dough was docked when I tried the pizza at the NY Restaurant Food Show and Pizza Expo, but would imagine it needs to be docked.  When I tried the Bittmanís formula, even with docking with a fork and no yeast, the dough still wanted to rise.

I still canít figure out how you can do these calculations, just based on a label with nutritional facts.  Hopefully one day I will be able to understand all this and be able to figure this out myself.  At least there were some nutritional facts listed and there arenít any cheese or sauce to figure out. I never would have wanted to try this is all this had to be figured out.  I am still having problems figuring out the Mackís clone, with dough, sauce and cheese. 

If any changes are needed from here, I will try to figure out how to make those changes.

For the cost that the Ultra-Thin Company wants for their 14" shells and the dough usually being the cheapest ingredient, hopefully this is something I can do. 

I will probably try this formula over the weekend.

Thanks for setting forth a formula for anyone that wants to try this.

Norma 
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22138
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2010, 07:51:48 PM »
Norma,

I forgot to mention in my last post that General Mills also has a flour called Superlative that appears to have specs that are the same as the Full Strength, at http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/Flour_SpecSheet/SUPERLATIVE%20BL%20BR%20ENR%20MT%2056574.doc. If there are differences in the two specs, I couldn't find them.

I checked all of the white flour categories in the nutritiondata.com database and I also checked the bromated flours at the GM professional flours website. I plan to go back and look at some of the GM high-gluten flours to see if the specs line up with the Ultra-Thin nutrition information. The data at nutritiondata.com did not suggest that possibility but their data is not as comprehensive as the GM specs. It would take a meaningful reduction in the amount of flour to push the hydration into the 40+% range. I'll let you know if I find anything of significance.

Peter

EDIT (4/15/14): For a current link to the Superlative flour, see http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/superlative-flour-50-lb/56573000

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2010, 07:58:16 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for mentioning that Superlative appears to have the same specs as Full Strength.  I will also check for that flour in the next two days. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22138
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2010, 08:13:09 PM »
Norma,

I took a quick look at the GM specs for the bromated All-Trumps high-gluten flour, which is comparable to the other bromated high-gluten flours you mentioned. On the surface it appears that the AT high-gluten flour might also be a viable candidate for what you want to do. The specs can be seen at http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/Flour_SpecSheet/AllTrumpsEnrMaltBl%20Br50111.doc. I will have to do some more work to verify whether the AT flour is a viable candidate. However, at first blush it does not appear that the numbers will change all that much to cause us to revisit our decision. When I was doing all of the calculations, I couldn't help but notice how much rounding of numbers there is in the nutrition information.

If you can't find either the Full Strength or Superlative flours, I think I would go with whatever bromated high-gluten flour you have on hand.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2010, 08:22:54 PM »
Peter,

I just looked at the distributor C.O. Nolt & Sons, where I buy my flour and see they have the GM Full Strength bleached flour and I know they carry All Trumps.  I will call them tomorrow and see what price their flour is.  They are usually reasonable.  I think when I used to purchase All Trumps it was about 12.00 for a 50 lb. bag.

http://www.conolt.com/categories.asp?ID=1

Thanks for the information,

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22138
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2010, 08:31:26 PM »
Norma,

You might want to try using high-gluten flour to see if we are in the ballpark. Otherwise you may end up with a lot of flour on your hands to use up.

Peter

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22138
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2010, 08:56:27 PM »
Norma,

Doing all this number crunching can turn your mind to mush but I ran the numbers using the All-Trumps flour anyway. Using the thickness factor option in the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, and assuming a 15" skin and a bowl residue compensation of 1%, I believe this is the proper dough formulation for the AT case:

Flour* (100%):
Water (40.613%):
IDY (0.50%):
Salt (1.18461%):
Olive Oil (3.26679%):
Total (145.5644%):
201.54 g  |  7.11 oz | 0.44 lbs
81.85 g  |  2.89 oz | 0.18 lbs
1.01 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
2.39 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.43 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
6.58 g | 0.23 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.46 tsp | 0.49 tbsp
293.38 g | 10.35 oz | 0.65 lbs | TF = 0.0585598
*General Mills bromated All-Trumps flour
Note: Dough is for a single 15" dough skin; nominal thickness factor = 0.05798; bowl residue compensation = 1%

I think I have given you all the information you need to change things if you wish.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2010, 09:18:45 PM »
Peter,

I can only imagine what all the number crunching would do to my brain.  It would have been mush a long time ago.  At least you are patient with the numbers, more than I ever could be.  I will see about the cost of All Trumps. I know it is a lot cheaper than KASL. At least I can use that for future experiments and keep the rest of the flour in the freezer.  Or maybe even sell some at market.

Thanks again for the calculations,

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #75 on: June 03, 2010, 09:12:18 AM »
Peter,

I called C O Nolt & Sons, Inc. this morning and the cost of a 50 lb. bag of All Trumps is 17.00.  The cost for a 50 lb. bag of Full Strength is 15.40.  I looked on the web to see how much protein content the Kyrol flour has, but maybe I am not looking in the right place, but I couldnít find out how much protein content the Kyrol flour has.  Do you think the Kyrol flour would be okay to do a test trial with the Ultra-Thin pizza shells?  I do have some Kyrol flour.  I can easily purchase that at our local Country Store.  I also called the Country Store and they donít handle the General Mills Full Strength.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22138
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2010, 09:38:20 AM »
Norma,

The Kyrol high-gluten flour is highly regarded and should work for your purposes. You might use the last dough formulation I posted since it calls for using a high-gluten flour. The protein content of the Kyrol is 14%, which is in the middle of the range of 13.8-14.2% for that flour.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2010, 10:02:53 AM »
Norma,

The Kyrol high-gluten flour is highly regarded and should work for your purposes. You might use the last dough formulation I posted since it calls for using a high-gluten flour. The protein content of the Kyrol is 14%, which is in the middle of the range of 13.8-14.2% for that flour.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the information and I will use the last formula you set forth.  I will give it a whirl in a few days.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22138
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2010, 10:42:16 AM »
Norma,

I will be interested in how things turn out. Some time ago, I discovered that a lot of the nutrition facts for products like pizza are produced by specialized computer software, not actual laboratory analysis of baked pizzas. I believe the software works off of the raw ingredients that go into making the pizza, and maybe even the sources of those ingredients. Most companies tend to use nutrition data for baked pizzas whereas others (I believe a minority) use the nutrition data for unbaked pizzas. It is far harder than people think to reverse engineer and clone pizza products from nutrition data alone. The chances are better when only a small number of ingredients are used, such as for the Ultra-Thin product, which thankfully does not have sauces, cheeses and toppings to contend with, but there are still many combinations of even a few ingredients that might fit the nutrition data profile.

One open area for investigation with the Ultra-Thin product is the amount of yeast used and the fermentation regimen. If you had an actual Ultra-Thin par-baked crust, you could examine it to see if there are fermentation bubbles or blisters. Also, you would be able to detect signs of docking, or "grid" marks on the bottom that might serve as a clue as to how the par-baked crusts are baked. It is like looking at the bottom of a Boboli par-baked crust. With an actual Ultra-Thin crust in hand, you would also be able to take a measure of its physical characteristics, such as diameter, thickness, weight, color, etc.

My feelings won't be hurt if you do not get the desired results. I am more interested in an objective assessment.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22171
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Ultra-Thin Pizza 1/16"..Any Ideas?
« Reply #79 on: June 03, 2010, 11:43:45 AM »
Peter,

I also am interested in finding out how this experiment might work out.  This can broaden my knowledge on making pizza.  With each different kind of pizza and crust, there is always something to learn.  This could also help me in the process of documenting data, to be able to help with future iterations I might want to try.  I usually get fouled up in some way of keeping accurate data, either in weighing something or other problems.  If I do the steps enough, this should implant the steps in my mind.

Awhile ago I wanted to get a product analyzed at Lancaster Laboratories.  It was a caramel popcorn that was sugar-free and I wanted to be able to reproduce it. Customers kept asking for a sugar-free caramel corn. Lancaster Laboratories told me they didnít analyze products anymore, and it took me a long while to be able to find out all the ingredients and find a product that was similar. Finally I was able to recreated it, but I had to contact many suppliers and it took many calls.  I did have a bag of sugar-free caramel corn I had purchased and had the ingredients, but still it was hard. That whole process took me 11 months from start to finish.

I was going about another experiment also, in trying to make a cotton candy that turned into bubble gum when eaten.  I had even contacted a gum base producer in Belgium and was talking to him though emails. He liked my idea. Their company had a gum-base supplier in New Jersey.  They finally sent me samples to try, but I thought they were going to be gum based pellets.  When they sent me the sample it was a whole block of hard gum base.  What a mess that was trying to break it down.  Finally I was getting some good results, when someone else came out with a similar product.  I still have pictures of that big block of gum base.  It makes me laugh when I look at the pictures.

Since you have told me the nutritional data might not be right, I now wonder how many products we buy that donít have the right nutritional data.  I never knew products didnít have to be analyzed by a laboratory.  I guess computers are taking over for everything.

I agree with you about reverse-engineering a pizza.  Since I have just been learning about this whole process, it can get quite confusing, to find the right crust, sauce, and cheeses.  With the Mackís pizza clone right now, I am more confused than ever.  In light of the recent post, it gives me more to think about.  I donít think anyone will understand the reverse-engineering unless they have gone though the process.  It always seems it is back to the drawing board.  That clone might have to have experiments in room temperature ferments now.  :-D

Hopefully this trying to reverse-engineer the Ultra-Thin crusts wonít be as extensive.  Only time will tell this, also.

Maybe Kemosa will be able to tell us if the crust is docked and all the other information.  He is going to use the real Ultra-Thin product, so he might notice some of the things you mentioned.  I am anxious to hear how he likes the Ultra-Thin shells.

I appreciate you being able to do the analysis,

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!