Author Topic: Question for Pete-zza  (Read 1226 times)

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Offline pizzal

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Question for Pete-zza
« on: May 30, 2010, 02:44:46 PM »
Hey, Pete-zza.

I am so impressed with your savvy knowledge of pizza making and baking in general; you really know your stuff.  I am not an aficionado of making and consuming the pie as are you, but I am trying, and I have come a long way from my first pizza which ironically came out in the perfect shape of my home state. Unfortunately, Massachusetts… a wonderful pizza shape does not make, especially when trying to add the toppings on the easterly point of Cape Cod.

Well, so much for that. I read one of your posts recently about the ingredients for Papa Gino’s pizza crust; again, I was blown away by the over-my-head detail that you put into your response.  I, like the person who asked the original question, love Papa’s crust, and have not been able to even come close, but would like to get a version of your recipe translated into amateur measures, instead of percentages. I understand why professionals use percentages, but I don’t know how to make them usable.

Is there any help you can give me with this, or is this to basic for you to bother.  I would like to have your recipe converted into a one ball measure and I can double or triple it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks, Sal


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Question for Pete-zza
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2010, 02:58:28 PM »
Sal,

I believe you are referring to the Papa Gino's thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg70317.html#msg70317. It's been a while since I last visited that thread, so I'd like to study it again to come up with a dough recipe that may be closer than the ones I posted. It may take me a couple of days because I also want to get a recipe that is closer than the ones I originally came up with, as good as they were.

Peter

Offline pizzal

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Re: Question for Pete-zza
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2010, 08:27:57 PM »
Pete, Thanks for your speedy response. I would be happy with anything that you can come up with, since I cannot even come close to Papa Gino's crust following other recipes. It would be helpful if you could give it to me in cups and spoons rather than percentages and pounds. I know it may be uncool to do that on such a sophisticated site, but you are working with a real amateur here. I printed out your recipe but I would have to convert it some how into measurements that I could use. Do you guys use scales?

BTY: the May issue of Cooking Light had a great article on pizzas: "Perfect Pizzas, Our Best ever!" I am sure you must have seen it, but I thought I would mention it in case you didn't.

Again, Many thanks, Sal

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Re: Question for Pete-zza
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2010, 09:30:02 PM »
Sal,

After re-reading the Papa Gino's thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.0.html, and taking into account the new information that came to light toward the end of that thread, I re-did the dough formulation for the PG clone dough to reflect those changes. The revised dough formulation is presented below. I have provided the complete dough formulation with both weights and volumes. In your case, you will want to use the volume measurements. Those with digital scales can use the weight values for the flour and water. The volume measurements for the remaining ingredients should be perfectly adequate.

As we learned, PGs is apparently using the Spring King Spring Patent flour as described at http://www.progressivebaker.com/products/spring_wheat_flours/spring_king_spring_patent.html. That flour is a bleached, bromated flour with a protein content of 13.2%. The Spring King flour is a commercial flour available from foodservice companies. It is not available at the retail level. So I propose that you use the King Arthur bread flour (KABF) as supplemented by vital wheat gluten (VWG) to raise the protein content of the KABF from 12.7% to 13.2% (the abovementioned protein content of the Spring King flour). I used the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to calculate the amount of VWG to use. In my case, I used the Hodgson Mill brand of VWG. That product is found in many supermarkets in the flour section of the stores.

To convert the weight of KABF to volume measurements, I used the Textbook flour Measurement Method as defined in the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/. You will want to use that method. It is important that you do so. You should also note that all volume measurements using measuring spoons are level measurements. Also, when measuring out the water in your measuring cup, such as a clear glass Pyrex measuring cup, you should view the markings at eye level with the measuring cup on a flat surface. Getting the correct volume measurements for the flour and water can be critical to the success of the dough. As good as the conversions are using the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator, it may still be necessary to tweak the amounts of flour and/or water to achieve the desired finished dough condition. Volume measurements are simply prone to variations, and those variations can easily differ from one person to another. That is why weights are the better method to use. I use a digital scale almost exclusively for weighing flour and water. I couldn’t live without it.

As another change, I decided to use 17 ounces of dough to make a 14” pizza. That way, the pizza can be baked on a pizza stone capable of accommodating a 14” pizza, and avoids having to use a 16” pizza screen to make a 15” pizza skin as I did in my last experiments with the PG clone dough. We can always return to the prior method if the pizza shrinks materially during baking. I also calculated the thickness factor that corresponds to using 17 ounces of dough to make a 14” pizza. It is 17/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.110434. We may find that value is a bit too high but we can lower it next time if it turns out that the baked crust is too thick in your opinion. The objective for now is to try to get the total weights to line up with the PG nutrition data. I should also note that the crust in any event is unlikely to be like a real PG crust because PG uses a bromated flour. The KABF is not bromated. I described some of the crust characteristics using a bromated flour at Reply 97 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.msg75760.html#msg75760

I also suggest that you use 8 ounces of the three-cheese blend (comprising low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese, a mild white cheddar cheese, grated Romano cheese, and dried oregano), 6 fluid ounces of pizza sauce (comprising vine-ripe tomatoes, salt, black pepper and garlic powder), and 3 ounces of pepperoni slices (about 40 slices), should you decide to make a pepperoni pizza. You will have to play around with the ratios of the three cheeses to use. I don’t have access to a wide range of cheddar cheeses in the markets near where I live, so my blend would be different than yours in any event. However, I would use a mild white cheddar cheese rather than a sharper version. Ideally, the three cheeses should be shredded to a fairly short overall shred (about ½” long), along with the dried oregano. I use a food processor to do this even though the cheese ends up diced rather than shredded. You will also have to use your best judgment in converting the weight of the cheeses blend to volume measurements. I have not had reason to do such conversions before. In my last visit to a PG store, I saw the fellow making a 14" pizza use two cups of shredded cheese blend, but he did not know the size of the cup.

With the above values for the dough, cheeses, pizza sauce and pepperoni slices, the total unbaked 14” pizza should weigh about 34 ounces. That is fairly close to the number I got from the PG nutrition data. With some weight loss during baking, I think you should get fairly close to the baked weight of a real PG pepperoni pizza.

A final change I made to the proposed PG clone dough formulation is that I increased the salt level to 2%. That change was made based on the last PG pizza I purchased that seemed to me to have a quite salty crust.

Using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, I came up with the following PG clone dough formulation for you to consider:

KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):
Water (60%):
IDY (0.375%):
Salt (2%):
Total (162.375%):
301.27 g  |  10.63 oz | 0.66 lbs
180.76 g  |  6.38 oz | 0.4 lbs
1.13 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.38 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
6.03 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.08 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
489.18 g | 17.26 oz | 1.08 lbs | TF = N/A
*The KABF/VWG Blend comprises 298.47 grams (10.53 ounces) KABF and 2.8 grams (0.10 ounces) Hodgson Mill VWG (about 1 t.)
Note: Dough is for a single 14” pizza, with a corresponding thickness factor of 0.110434; bowl residue compensation = 1.5% (this is to compensate for normal dough losses during preparation of the dough in a standard home mixer)

Using the aforementioned Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator with the Textbook flour Measurement Method and with the KABF in the pull-down menu, the 298.47 grams of KABF converts to 2 c. + 1/3 c. + 1 T. + 2/3 t. Using the same tool, the 180.765 grams of water converts to ½ c. + ¼ c. + 2/3 t.

I would shoot for 2-3 days of cold fermentation (in the refrigerator). The dough should be prepared in the same manner as I previously described in the Papa Gino’s thread.

Should you decide to proceed, you may well be the first and only member to attempt the above dough recipe until I get around to trying it myself. So I hope you will report back on your results and, if possible, post some photos of your pizza(s). Any comments or observations that will enlighten us on a real PG pizza, as well as any recommended changes that might be incorporated in future iterations of the clone dough, will also be welcome.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 09:51:28 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline pizzal

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Re: Question for Pete-zza
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 02:21:11 PM »
Hello, Pete-zza

Thank you for your reply on the Papa Gino's pizza reciepe. It sounds like you really did your homework on this one. I have an idea that pizza is more than just a passion with you; it is an obsession.

I will try your new suggestion with in conjunction with your original post. I will write back and let you know how it came out. I will attach a photograph of it as well, so you can have a look at it, even though you will have to take my word for it on the taste.

Again, thank you for doing the conversions for me. I plan to buy a scale and use it in the future, but for this one I will use your numbers    ... Sal


 

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