Author Topic: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project  (Read 58869 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ronzo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1407
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Leander, TX
  • Beer, freedom n' pizza...
    • New Texian Brewery
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #240 on: September 17, 2010, 10:12:31 PM »
I love the hinge, Don! That gives me ideas... :)

What do you use to heat it if you don't use burner?
Fuggheddabowdit!

~ Ron

Former NY'er living in Texas
http://newtexianbrew.com - http://ronlennex.com/ - http://pinterest.com/NewTexianBrew


buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #241 on: September 17, 2010, 10:35:36 PM »
Oops, Sorry about the misunderstanding, I don't use a high pressure burner that others use in the LBE and MBE. Overkill IMO. I use what I call a star burner but low pressure. More fuel efficient with close to the same heat up and recovery times. I don't know that such a critter can be found in the USA.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4753.920.html
that is the larger version, I have since stepped down to a even smaller one.
Don

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #242 on: September 18, 2010, 10:36:12 AM »
Don, your star burner is similar to what I call a banjo burner.  Its available in both low and high pressure (I think) from Tejas :  http://www.tejassmokers.com/castironburners.htm  I'm glad you did the hinge, I've been trying to convince JT to do the same.


Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #243 on: September 18, 2010, 10:41:52 AM »
...  To fix this, I'm planning on plugging the front airvent, and opening up the original top vents.  I'll also have to remove the disk in the lid since it's block the top vents. 

I hope this will create some turbulence causing the air to swirl around the lid a bit before exiting the top.   I'll report back. 

I wish you much success, but, I don't think it's going to work.  Do you have a picture of your top lid, before you remove the disk?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #244 on: September 18, 2010, 12:10:40 PM »
JD, the hinge at this point is low priority.  It is a good idea though.  I'll see about implementing it after i get my airflow issues worked out. 

No worries about removing the disk.  It's very easy to take off and put on.  I tried removing the disk this morning, plugging up the front vent and opening up the top vents.  You're right.  It didn't work.  I could tell right away that the airflow suffered.  So I closed up the top vent, unplugged the front vent, and baked without the top disk

Now, without the top disk there is more air volume up above but also allows the air to shoot up in an arching manner rather than straight across the pie.  The result was that I got rid of the top white ring.  I now have even browning across the rim.  The downside is that it took longer to brown the rim.  Rim browing time went from 2 min to 3 min to brown. 

So my next idea to try is to leave the disk out and recover the inside with foil to see if that makes a difference and/or using a smaller disk up top.

Picture from this morning's experiment. 

Thanks for your suggestions JD.  They are helpful.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 12:12:54 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #245 on: September 18, 2010, 12:26:23 PM »
You are most welcome.  Remeber those cheesy looking curtains of beads from the 70's? I'd like to see about 30 strips of aluminum foil, 1/2 inch wide, stuck to the roof of your egg.  Put them in some random pattern right above where the pie cooks.  Make the strips long enough to be only 1/4" from the top of the pie.  Give that some thought. :chef:
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #246 on: September 18, 2010, 12:53:06 PM »
You are most welcome.  Remeber those cheesy looking curtains of beads from the 70's? I'd like to see about 30 strips of aluminum foil, 1/2 inch wide, stuck to the roof of your egg.  Put them in some random pattern right above where the pie cooks.  Make the strips long enough to be only 1/4" from the top of the pie.  Give that some thought. :chef:

How should I attach them JD?  Are they suppose to disrrupt the airflow?  With blocking the side airflow off now, the airflow from the back is so strong I'm not sure strips of aluminum foil will hold up.  BUT  What if I drilled random holes into my existing lid disk (you know the one I took out)?   I will throw around some ideas, do a few test bakes and report back. 

Chau

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #247 on: September 18, 2010, 09:57:17 PM »
Tonight's 2.5 minute pie. Would have been less but I was interrupted and didn't turn the pie soon enough. 24 hour cold proof AP and cake flour with pistachios, spinach, panela cheese and cherry tomatoes. Outstanding except for the salted pistachios, must find unsalted.
Saludos, Don

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #248 on: September 18, 2010, 10:07:08 PM »
Decent looking pie Don. Are you having any issues with the bottom burning?  If you don't mind, can you post a pic or a link to your current setup?
I am also in the process of playing around with mixing pastry flour and AP flour.  I haven't tried pistachios on pizza yet, but will need to try it soon. I thought pine nuts would be good as well.

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #249 on: September 18, 2010, 10:14:00 PM »
They are called vortex generators. Ah the memories, those curtains, Ravi on sitar followed up by Moody Blues, some far out hashish, the chick from your English class who thought your gotee made you look cool..............
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_generator

You are most welcome.  Remeber those cheesy looking curtains of beads from the 70's? I'd like to see about 30 strips of aluminum foil, 1/2 inch wide, stuck to the roof of your egg.  Put them in some random pattern right above where the pie cooks.  Make the strips long enough to be only 1/4" from the top of the pie.  Give that some thought. :chef:


buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #250 on: September 18, 2010, 10:20:27 PM »
Tonight's pizza bottom shot.

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #251 on: September 19, 2010, 08:49:19 AM »
.... Ravi on sitar .....


Don, since your on a first name basis with (Master) Ravi, you now have my utmost, undivided attention to anything that you post.  Undoubtedly, i was born 18 years to early or I would have been right there with you, and she would have liked my gotee just as much as yours. :-D :-D :-D
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #252 on: September 19, 2010, 02:33:51 PM »
Don, that bottom char looks perfect.  Nice work.

Ok so here are the latest changes

-removed the disk in the lid
-covered only the back half of the lid with foil.
-create a vortex generator by creating a fold in the foil in the middle of the lid. 
-rotated the pies more frequently.  At 30-45s, then every 15-20 seconds.
-Baked at hearth temp of 700F for right at 2min.

thoughts:  definitely bake the 2nd pie at a lower hearth temp than first by 50F.   I have notice this several times now.  If I baked the 2nd pie at the same hearth temp, it always seems to burn a bit if the first one was just right. 

Oh BTW, heat up time was 6 min to 700F on the hearth.  That is CRAZY from my previous 20min or so down to 6m!!!  I was getting 18 bakes or so before with a 20m preheat, I can't even imagine how many bakes I'll get now.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 02:39:51 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline gtsum2

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 178
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #253 on: September 19, 2010, 02:43:48 PM »
Chau,

So your heat up time for the FB was only a few minutes????  Are you still using the SS bowl with sand??  That is incredibly fast.  Since I put foil around the edges and moved the FB up front and sealed the fornt, I am getting much hotter dome temps (800 or so), but it still takes 25 minutes to get my FB up to 600-625.  I have an alum disk in my lid...you think the foil you lined in the dome is the reason for the better heat up time?  How are you keeping the foil up there?  Nice looking pie by the way :chef:

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #254 on: September 19, 2010, 03:02:39 PM »
Shaun.  Before doing the variation on Mike's disk mod, my preheat time was about 20m.  After plugging up the sides and moving the sand bowl forward, my heat up times dropped about 50% to around 10m.

Today, I took the disk out of the lid and added that vortex generator (aluminum foil lip) and I noticed it was right at 6min to reach a hearth temp of 700. 

Here is what I think is going on.  I think that aluminum lip directed the hot air down towards the hearth instead.  So (some of) the air flow is coming up from the back and hitting that lip and going down towards the hearth beforer coming out the front. 

You can likely reproduce this effect by turning your lid about 30deg left or right.  This will cause the heat to have to turn before going out the front lid opening. 

The 2nd reason for the fast preheat time is that I'm using a real pizza stone now (from Sears for $12) instead of FB or QT.  Why? Well, it's mostly b/c it's in one piece instead of multiple pieces.  This stone heats up faster and transfers heat much faster than the QT or FB.   To compensate for this, I load the pies at a lower than normal hearth temp.

Now let me explain.  I did just say I loaded the previous pie at 700F right.  Well those pies are 75%/25% pastry flour/AP flour meant to be loaded at a hearth temp of 850F.  If I was cooking BF or HG flour I would loaded the pies at maybe 550, 600 max. 

I did away with the FB b/c the MBE has a low dome and the FB was too thick doming the pies.  I did away with the QT b/c the pieces were shifting too much with me turning the pies frequently. 

I think you can tweak yours to lower your preheat times but it may very well be just the nature of a bigger kettle.  And besides, my latest thought is that you don't want a higher hearth temp than 600F if using BF/HG flour.   And not that the flour can't handle that but b/c the flour benefits from a lower cooking temp and a longer bake time.   On yours, you can try this.  Once the hearth temp reaches 600F, I would load the pie and turn down the burner about 30-40% or so.  Plan to cook the pies for 5-6 minutes instead of 3-4m like I recommended before.  I am doing things much different these days.  I believe a BF/HG flour dough benefits from a relative lower hydration ratio rather than higher even though by nature it attracts more water.  The excess water of a high hydration dough will only prolong the bake times or give an undercooked pizza if using a short bake time.  Just some thoughts is all. 

This longer bake time should allow the proteins more time to bake and drive out more moisture.  If I am correct, you will get a better pie than before.   Even baking at a lower temp should save you some preheat times.   Also try turning the lid during the preheat time or add a lip to the dome to see if that helps.  At this point I'm more just reporting what I see going on rather than having all the right answers.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 03:07:18 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline ponzu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 358
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #255 on: September 19, 2010, 03:15:04 PM »
That is a great looking crumb JT.  How does the crumb compare taste wise to your almost WFO bakes.  It actually looks lighter, springier, and better,

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #256 on: September 19, 2010, 03:34:12 PM »
I agree ponzu, Great looking crumb and pies. I also have been playing around with a 75/25% AP/CF for awhile now but have a ways to go getting that airy look in my crumbs. I perfer a lighter pie so the blend has been working well for me.
Saludos, Don

 quote author=ponzu link=topic=11126.msg110829#msg110829 date=1284923704]
That is a great looking crumb JT.  How does the crumb compare taste wise to your almost WFO bakes.  It actually looks lighter, springier, and better,
[/quote]

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #257 on: September 19, 2010, 03:44:07 PM »
Ponzu & Don, thanks for saying that.   This is the type of texture that I have been striving for for some time.  It is more of a white bread texture than a SD bread texture.   It does seem lighter than those almost-WFO-politans made with AP flour, but it is a bit drier and has a bit more chew as well.   Unfortunately I don't have a good way of explaining what i like or how things should be.  I know what i like and I'm still looking.  So not there yet.  Just playing around with different variables.

I wish I could bake this dough formulation under the broiler to see if I get a different crumb than those AP almost-wfo-politans but for the time being my oven is out of comission.  Still waiting for the electrician to come and tell me if it is the electrical or the oven.

Also unfortunate that baking at high temps under the broiler or in the MBE only approximates a WFO and can't duplicate it.   The big difference is in a well balanced and managed WFO, you (ulitmately) can create a more perfect environment for pizza.  That is close to even heating ALL the way around.  With many of these half baked ideas for pizza ovens (pun intended) you don't have that instaneous all around even heating.  We are required to rotate the pie to the hot spot and when the crust is left out at a lower than optimal temp, you don't have that optimal instant rise and thus don't get that optimal texture that is perfection.  Even with a WFO, I surmise that if the heat is not well managed or controlled, the crumb is lacking or doesn't reach what it was really meant for.   Anyways just a little philosophizing is all...  

Here's a few more crumb shots from yesterday's bake.  These are the crumb shots from pie in reply #244.
These are 50/50 blend of AP/Pastry flour.  If you look at the pictures in the above post, the rim isn't puffy all the way around.  I showed off a spot where there was a bit of a bubble.  So some of the rim is rather flat, so not as visually appealing.  

« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 04:40:38 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline ponzu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 358
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #258 on: September 19, 2010, 05:10:36 PM »
Ponzu & Don, thanks for saying that.   This is the type of texture that I have been striving for for some time.  It is more of a white bread texture than a SD bread texture.   It does seem lighter than those almost-WFO-politans made with AP flour, but it is a bit drier and has a bit more chew as well.   Unfortunately I don't have a good way of explaining what i like or how things should be.  I know what i like and I'm still looking.  So not there yet.  Just playing around with different variables.

I wish I could bake this dough formulation under the broiler to see if I get a different crumb than those AP almost-wfo-politans but for the time being my oven is out of comission.  Still waiting for the electrician to come and tell me if it is the electrical or the oven.

Also unfortunate that baking at high temps under the broiler or in the MBE only approximates a WFO and can't duplicate it.   The big difference is in a well balanced and managed WFO, you (ulitmately) can create a more perfect environment for pizza.  That is close to even heating ALL the way around.  With many of these half baked ideas for pizza ovens (pun intended) you don't have that instaneous all around even heating.  We are required to rotate the pie to the hot spot and when the crust is left out at a lower than optimal temp, you don't have that optimal instant rise and thus don't get that optimal texture that is perfection.  Even with a WFO, I surmise that if the heat is not well managed or controlled, the crumb is lacking or doesn't reach what it was really meant for.   Anyways just a little philosophizing is all...  

Here's a few more crumb shots from yesterday's bake.  These are the crumb shots from pie in reply #244.
These are 50/50 blend of AP/Pastry flour.  If you look at the pictures in the above post, the rim isn't puffy all the way around.  I showed off a spot where there was a bit of a bubble.  So some of the rim is rather flat, so not as visually appealing.  



Your original crumb shot was definately the best of the bunch (though they all look good.) 

I couldn't agree more about the WFO observation.  I'm making the best pies of my life, but there is something contrived about the process of the bake; switching oven modes, moving the pie from the oven box to the broiler, juggling ice sleeves.  It's ridiculous. :-[

Nothing like the zen like appearance of sliding a disk into an WFO and watching the cornicione puff and char with little if any manipulation.

I just want a dough that can justify a WFO by the time I have one.

The experiments must continue!

AZ

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: MBE (Mini Black Egg) Project
« Reply #259 on: September 21, 2010, 08:30:38 PM »
You are most welcome.  Remeber those cheesy looking curtains of beads from the 70's? I'd like to see about 30 strips of aluminum foil, 1/2 inch wide, stuck to the roof of your egg.  Put them in some random pattern right above where the pie cooks.  Make the strips long enough to be only 1/4" from the top of the pie.  Give that some thought. :chef:

I couldn't really visualize this but base on my latest changes, I decided to go with something similar.

-Added back the lid disk but made it smaller from 8.5" down to 5"
-bent the back edge up about 30 deg to create an air flow diverter.  This way as the air flows from the back it will be diverted down again towards the rim and cheese. 

Here are tonight's pies with these changes.  I did note the rim to have a bit more even char similar to the effects of previous changes.  I also noted some spotting on the cheese which is a first, so the air flow diverter is definitely changing the airflow.   I also noted that the air currents coming out of the front are not as forceful as before without the airflow diverter. 

Heat up time was about 8 min to 700F today.   When I have a bit more time, I plan on playing around with a few different air flow diverter set ups.   I could probably bolt a couple of flaps to cover a wider area closer towards the rim of the lid. 

« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 08:33:42 PM by Jackie Tran »