Author Topic: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....  (Read 39391 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #160 on: May 13, 2011, 09:34:01 AM »
Hey PB, great serving dishes!! where did you get those??

Those are some of the Massimo Giacon pizza plates, made and sold by Alessi.

There are six plates in all, typically sold in sets of two plates.

Google Massimo Giacon pizza plates. Amazon has some of these, as do other places. --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell


Offline wucactus1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 434
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Lexington/Louisville, Ky
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #161 on: May 13, 2011, 10:09:33 AM »
Thanks PB, your recent square pie and above pies look delicious! The crumb almost has this ethereal look too, im sure contributed to the moistness!
In regards to the pizza cutter situation I can totally relate my pizza cutter is dull and also requires 3-4 passes, completely destroying the crumb most of the time, but i have learned to be quick about it...While Im at gfs today picking up my 25# bag of bouncer im going to see if they have any decent pizza equipment, a cutter and maybe a new peel is in order(current peel is a bit charred...need a custom iron/steel/aluminum peel, with a cool fleur di lis or iron owl...hmmm custom peel, metal shop here I come!)
also a tip for oven PB is to not stick it closest to the broiler, but one below and heat to 550(585 with calibration) until it beeps then place a frozen towel on wait 5 minutes then kick the broiler on for 10-15 and launch the frist pie, this is my method and the top/bottom seem to cook evenly, but your pies look gorgeous so i dont know what your complaining about.

Offline forzaroma

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 384
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #162 on: May 13, 2011, 10:10:27 AM »
Man great char from the home oven. I still can't get that with my home oven. Tried broiler method many times but Im not giving up.

Offline andreguidon

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1166
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Sao Paulo
  • Hot WFO always !!!
    • www.andreguidon.com
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #163 on: May 13, 2011, 10:42:35 AM »
Thanks PB!!
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline wucactus1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 434
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Lexington/Louisville, Ky
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #164 on: May 13, 2011, 10:48:05 AM »
i have been trying to track down those plates for so long ever since seeing them in a una pizza neopalatana picture...but never though they would be that expensive...

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12507
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #165 on: May 13, 2011, 10:55:48 AM »
I really want to like them, but I think they just remind me too much of the plates my kids ate off when they were babies...

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2628
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #166 on: May 13, 2011, 02:23:07 PM »
I really want to like them, but I think they just remind me too much of the plates my kids ate off when they were babies...

CL

Craig - Funny you say that, as my three year old loves them. I have 12 of them, and he makes a game of which design he will get after he eats his pizza.

Kelly - Outstanding pizza.

John

Offline ponzu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 358
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #167 on: May 13, 2011, 07:13:14 PM »
PB

Really lovely pies.  I really like the balance of your cornicione to center.

That Bianco clone looks great.  Never having tried the real item, I keep on meaning to try those toppings (pistachio, red onions) but have yet to get around to it.

AZ


Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #168 on: May 13, 2011, 07:19:22 PM »
PB

Really lovely pies.  I really like the balance of your cornicione to center.

That Bianco clone looks great.  Never having tried the real item, I keep on meaning to try those toppings (pistachio, red onions) but have yet to get around to it.

AZ



Thanks comrade.

The Bianco is not really a clone, being there is no sauce on the real version...and I was out of rosemary.

I really like the red onion & pistachio combo with sauce, but the real combo steals the show in my opinion.

Parmigiano-reggiano, red onion, pistachios and rosemary are a simple, yet potent combination which lingers.

Sputnik needs to tractor beam those ingredients into space and do a zero-G recreation of that pie. Get to it!  :)
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline Matthew

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2229
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #169 on: May 14, 2011, 04:52:16 AM »
K,
Very nice job. 

Matt


Offline wucactus1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 434
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Lexington/Louisville, Ky
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #170 on: May 17, 2011, 09:20:16 PM »
So Baked another pie following pretty much the exact same steps and formula as my past pie, the only differing factors where one revolving around the oven.  I tried baking a new york style for my girlfriend and then a neopolitan for myself.  My girlfirends pizza because of the 00 flour and comparatively low heat came out white than a babies bottom despite me preheating a stone on the floor for her...Her stone being on the floor also caused some problems with my stone(by the broiler) and it not getting the proper pre-oven heat, this led to some compensation and estimation, that ultimately led to not bad, but sub-par bakes...Either way the pizza tasted wonderful, atleast it did tonight when I reheated the leftovers, this is undoubtedly due to the attitude toward the pizza I had yesterday after making it(mixture of disappointment and anger), but the crumb remained moist and the exterior crisp.  The rim was slightly more chewy than yesterday(yesterday was sort of chewy as well) and the dough presented a slightly more sour taste than the last bake.  I dont know if its me, but I like a sour dough, not REAL sour, but to a point where it is definitely noticeable, I also cooked the pizza a bit less in part of the oven situation mentioned above and the fact that I have noticed slightly paler pizzas on the forum and have concluded that I much prefer a browner/slightly darker pizza(like my last pie).
also one last note, the bottom of this pizza isnt as evenly charred as my past pizzas and some on here, does anyone know how to guarantee a evenly charred bottom like those often in motorino and upn, and please dont say a SF oven...

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #171 on: June 05, 2011, 10:43:37 AM »
Tried a new technique this bake.  Small amount of CY, 32h RT ferment at ~70F.   Turned out pretty good.

Pie #1 breakfast pie: salsa, scrambled egg, potatoe, cheddah, roaste green chile.


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #172 on: June 05, 2011, 10:45:44 AM »
Pie #2 Marinara, garlic, touch of grated parm, evoo, basil.

 

Offline wucactus1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 434
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Lexington/Louisville, Ky
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #173 on: June 05, 2011, 11:16:27 AM »
YUM Breakfast Pizza...and then a lunch Pizza, they look fantastic, you got some good spring, but the crumb appears a bit dry, was it?
Im making some pizzas tonight around 7...eyeballed 18hr ferm.  Ill post pics, hopefully they turn out as good as yours, but you never know what will happen in the home oven!

Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #174 on: June 05, 2011, 01:01:59 PM »
Thx Wu, I didn't think so.  Did they all look a bit dry or was it just a certain one?  I usually try to post several different looking crumb shots from the same pie.

Chau

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2628
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #175 on: June 05, 2011, 01:06:20 PM »
Beautiful execution. I love that you have not abandoned your home oven.

John

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #176 on: June 05, 2011, 04:29:19 PM »
Salsa?!   ???

Like, who is this friggen guy, huh?

Nice looking batch....kitchen oven, LBE, WFO....neapolitan, new york...you're all over the map lately! Love the variation of styles. Really laying down the gauntlet.
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline wucactus1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 434
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Lexington/Louisville, Ky
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #177 on: June 18, 2011, 09:56:54 PM »
So girlfriend headed home to take care of some buisness so I have the apartment to myself, and that means bake-athon.  I decided to run a little experiment to see if I prefer 75/25(00/hg) or 75/25(hg/00).I also wanted to try and figure out what % of starter I should use for an 18/20hour ferment at 75% degrees so i split that value between the two batches.  Each batch was 65%hydration with 2.5%salt. and rose for 18h.  The batch with the majority of HG used 8%starter(by flour weight) and the 00 used 5%. Cooked on a preheated stone under the broiler all bakes where under 1.5minutes, but i didnt right down the times exactly.

-conclusions-

-00 does infact need more Kneading.  I never noticed it but side by side it is apparent, I may have actually over kneaded the HG as well.
-The 00 was easier to stretched
-The HG proofed up alot bigger, but was a heck of alot harder to stretch.
-00/HG pies are infact better than HG/00.  I doubt this wondering if there really is a difference, never had a chance to do a side by side.
-I think next time Im going to try a 75/25(00/hg) and then do a 100% 00 and see how they fair.
-The increased kneading from my previous workflow solved my hole issue.  Dough was strong and extensible.


-Questions-

-does over fermentation lead to pies that are harder to stretch?
-could I have over kneaded my dough? Im using 9.8oz balls and only stretching too 10/10.5 inches yet they should be a min of 12" right?  There is no excess in the rim and the dough is see through in the middle.
-what could I do to improve these pies?  I have been trying to not move the pizza much but rather let the oven do its thing and hopefully get it to where i wount have to move it at all

The taste was good, complex bread flavors, that of wheat more than sourdough tang.  The bad thing is I like this tang but havent been able to get it to come back.  I want alot of it too, not just a hit, what can I do to enhance this tang?


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6978
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #178 on: June 18, 2011, 10:32:07 PM »
Nice job Wu! I like the leoparding you are getting, more of a typhoid fever pox look.   

When I did the experiments with blends, I also ended up preferring a high % 00 and small % HG blend as well.  Both pies I made were really good, and I felt as though I had maximize the flours potential for that bake and the 00/HG blend won over the HG/00 blend.  I noted that here...
Reply #21
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12538.20.html


-Questions-

-does over fermentation lead to pies that are harder to stretch?
-could I have over kneaded my dough? Im using 9.8oz balls and only stretching too 10/10.5 inches yet they should be a min of 12" right?  There is no excess in the rim and the dough is see through in the middle.
-what could I do to improve these pies?  I have been trying to not move the pizza much but rather let the oven do its thing and hopefully get it to where i wount have to move it at all

The taste was good, complex bread flavors, that of wheat more than sourdough tang.  The bad thing is I like this tang but havent been able to get it to come back.  I want alot of it too, not just a hit, what can I do to enhance this tang?



-Yes, I have found that over fermentation with doughs leavened with mature (acidic) starters does lead to a more dry and tough crumb.  This is the work of the acids I believe BUT this dryness can also be the work of over gluten development as well.  Both seem to be tempered by a quick bake.  The longer the bake the more noticeable it will be.

-yes you could have over kneaded your dough.  You'll know when you go to open the dough (at room temps and not cold as it can mask over gluten development or over fermentation).  The dough will practically say you over kneaded me if you listen to the dough.

If the dough opens easily and is thin in the center with no excess in the rim, then the gluten has not been overdeveloped.  If the crumb is dry or tough, then it's a matter of hydration, over acidification, or too long of a bake relative to the thickness of the crust. 

-if you want a more sour taste then use a (more) mature starter.  What starter are you using? You may look into switching to a SF SD starter.  Use it when it is mature rather than at a young stage, and allow the dough to proof out well. 

I could be wrong here, but have found that really sour crust/breads tend to give me a more dense and tough crumb.  That is, I haven't been able to get that flavor and a really light and soft crumb.  It's likely my lack of skill, so let me know if you can do it, but I think the window for finding that balance becomes increasing small.  The margin for error becomes increasing big.  A slightly higher hydration will help here as it will keep the crumb moist to balance the crumb drying effects of the SD acids.

Hope that helps.  Maybe some ppl can chime in with more technical info as these are only observations I have made in working with starters.

Chau


Offline wucactus1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 434
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Lexington/Louisville, Ky
Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #179 on: June 18, 2011, 11:06:45 PM »
The crumb wasnt really dry, more moist than dry, but not tartine bread moist, perhaps this is from the kneading, as the starter I have been using lately has been the starter I have had since spring break(march) and has been innoculated during its infancy, but my procedure as far as kneading goes is rather minimal.  I have found that if I do anyless than this and the dough doesnt have enough strength, perhaps I need a whole new routine...

Quick Outline
Mix in bowl til gathered together slowly adding flour-2min
rest 20
turn out of bowl and roll around/knead like Anthony from NR for 4-6 turns
into bowl to bulk rise
Turn out and repeat the Anthony NR technique
rest 5min
divide and ball using NR technique plus 1-3 of the Chau stretch and folds.
-the line between kneaded too little, enough, or too much is very fine and at one point i thought i knew it, guess not.
The 00 dough imo wasn't over kneaded but the HG, most likely, perhaps it over fermented a bit?  Maybe the kneading technique isnt it perhaps the starter % is too much? Ahhh so many options. Ill take your recommendations into account and try using a more mature starter and up the hydration to 67 from 65 when using 75 00/25 HG.  As for a kneading techinique what are you currently using(if you hand knead still).
Again its constant experimentation and maybe ill find that sour doughs wont lend a nice soft crumb and then ill retreat back to using a younger starter.



 

pizzapan