Author Topic: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....  (Read 45602 times)

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Offline wucactus1

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #150 on: May 12, 2011, 02:14:49 PM »
Yeah i dont think the girl friend is going anywhere despite her scewed definition of burned! as for the stone I have been contemplating getting a thicker one, maybe firebrick,maybe soapstone.  And as it turns out there is a major producer of firebricks and all the other things needed for home ovens or anything produced within that manner...http://www.louisvillefirebrick.com, so well see what happens, im going to do a bunch of research and try contacting them today to get some price quotes...


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #151 on: May 12, 2011, 05:40:10 PM »
Yeah being an art student it takes alot for me to get offended, alot...something I dont think anyone on the forum could do, levels of snobbery are only able to be attained by the most pretentious of professors and wannabe art critics, but any who just to throw it in your ny pies are looking good, the crust seems pretty crisp on yours and as for the veneer, there was definitely some strength.  My crust was able to hold up on its own and maintained its strength through the eating process, not overly wet or floppy and didnt have a cracker crunch, just right imo.
Im using my girlfriends mom's pampered chef stone, its a little thicker than most stones and is 14" in diameter.  Starter of tan/brown and now is black as night...its awesome I love this stone!  As for fire bricks, I have been looking for a long time into getting some, not for the home oven, but for a potential wfo build, trying to convince the parents is harder than I thought, but do you think they would work well in the home oven?  They seem thick and preheat time seems long, but maybe it would be worth it.  How many do you use in the oven?
Dough is 9oz stretched out to 10-11".  I typically use a 10 oz ball and stretch it out to 12/13, but I wanted to make a slightly smaller pie to minimize leftovers, it didnt exactly work and my girlfriend refused to eat her other half...she hates neo. style apparently and even after I attempted to educate her showing pictures of motorino and upn she declined and ignored it all.  So if I ever end up making a pizza for her it will have to be a ny style, and I have been trying to think how I could possibly cook up both styles at the same time using the same oven session...any ideas?

Wu I like pies that have just enough strength to just hold their own, but the floppy ones get eaten just as well.  Firebrick is relatively cheap if you can source it locally.  It's usually about $1.50 a piece and about 6-8 pieces will do the job.  So for around $10, it's hard to beat and it's hard to crack them as well.  They don't seem to take much longer to heat up either compared to a traditional cordierite stone.  I only suggested that b/c I think most WFO's use them for a floor, but if your stone is working fine the difference between the 2 is negligeable.   The good thing about FB is that it tends to cook a bit cooler meaning that won't burn pies as bad at the higher NP temps.   In my MBE, I could bake malted HG pies at 750F hearth temps for almost 4 minutes without burning, something that is just not likely to happen with other stones. 

Don't worry about the GF, she'll come around.  Just give her some time.  My wife was the same way at first.  Now she likes them but no doubt my pies have improved since then.   

Sure you can bake both in the home oven one after the other.  You can bake the NY pie on your way up or on your way down, upto you.  I'd bake it first so the GF can eat, then get the stone temps high enough for your pie.

Keep posting your pies, they are looking good.

Chau

Offline wucactus1

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #152 on: May 12, 2011, 08:20:56 PM »
Yeah im really excited about this and getting my oven down, I personally like these pies than more than what my local VPN place is producing(Smashing Tomato), so to know that I dont need a wfo or to travel to an expensive vpn place to get this pizza is awesome!
Regarding the FB there is a place in louisville that produce them along with everything else you could possibly want regarding kilns and WFOs so Im going to make a stop there the next time im in town during the week to visit the family.  Im sure it wouldnt hurt to try the Fb and for that cost it would be no loss only gain...
and I think next time I make pizza Ill try cooking hers on the way up that way she is satisfied and content as I employ my oven shenanigans and such, it will just require me to make two different batches hers with some oil and a bit of sugar to aid in the browning on the way up to temp...also im doing all the heat estimation blindly through trial and error, using past times as benchmarks and it is working, but i think im soon going to invest in a ir therm, but maybe not we'll see...
You make any almost-wfo pies lately?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #153 on: May 12, 2011, 09:17:00 PM »
I would reccomend the IR therm as I have found so many uses for it around the house.   No AWFO pies lately.   Easier and better results from the LBE for me.

Chau
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 08:13:18 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline wucactus1

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #154 on: May 12, 2011, 09:50:38 PM »
In that case ill start an IR fund!  About the LBE, do your results really come out that well, how do the home oven and LBE pies differ, would you build one all over again? Is the investment worth it?, not being able to have a WFO at the apartment is a drag, but a LBE could easily reside on our deck...

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #155 on: May 13, 2011, 02:14:35 AM »
In that case ill start an IR fund!  About the LBE, do your results really come out that well, how do the home oven and LBE pies differ, would you build one all over again? Is the investment worth it?, not being able to have a WFO at the apartment is a drag, but a LBE could easily reside on our deck...

Hard to answer b/c my earlier pies were all made in the home oven and most of my later pies when my skills improved were done in the LBE.   One of my greatest pies ever made (Perfect Pie #1 in the elusive yet perfect pie thread) 
was made in the home oven.   The majority of them have come from the MBE/LBE.   So in essence, I have made some really good pies in both.   I think that you can make really good pies using either or BUT I think it can be a bit trickier in the home oven b/c of the large amount of dead space.  This space can really create heating differences between the top and bottom of the pie.   Now if you use oven tricks or the oven in an oven technique, then you are leveling the playing field between the 2. 

I can make a better NY/NP hybrid in the LBE and I can make a better NY style or deep dish in the home oven.   Each oven is gear towards a particular style better.  The MBE/LBE is a relatively high temp oven, so if that is the type of pie that you like, tha'ts what I would look at building. 

Since you can make a great NP style pie in the home oven that you are happy with, I'm not sure how much you can improve upon that with the LBE.  No doubt it will take you some time to learn how to properly construct an LBE (to even top and bottom heat) and to use it.   I was never really 100% satisfied with my hybrid style pies in the home oven, but am really satisfied with them in the LBE.  Perhaps if I spent some more time in the home oven now that I'm fairly happy with my dough technique, I can make pies equally as pleasing to the eyes and palate. 

Was it worth it?  For me I would say yes.  I made an MBE and then made an LBE even though my MBE pies were already pretty good and knowing I was going to be going the WFO route.   For me, the MBE/LBE offers some advantages over the home oven. 

Quick preheat times, 10m in the MBE, and close to 20m in the LBE.   Some members have gotten their LBE preheat times down below 10m I believe.   At a 10m preheat time, that's over 20 bakes per 5 gallon tank. 

MBE/LBE is portable.  I can bake outside during the summer and avoid heating up the kitchen.  I bake pies in my garage during the winter to avoid the elements. 

So it's fairly cheap and convenient to use and produces outstanding results IF you have it set up properly and can make a decent dough.   I'll still be using my LBE, when I want to make just 2 pies.  There's no sense in firing up a WFO for 2 small pies.   Soon I'll be able to tell everyone the true difference between the LBE and the WFO.  I'm sure the WFO makes a better pie, but how much better no one really knows.   I have turned out some pretty good pies in the LBE, let's see what I can do with the WFO with a little practice. 

Chau

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #156 on: May 13, 2011, 08:16:03 AM »
Wu, those last pies look very good indeed...you are progressing at a rapid pace. Delicious looking pizzas.

Certainly blows some of my latest efforts out of the water!  :)
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #157 on: May 13, 2011, 08:46:53 AM »
Broiler's Last Stand

While making my square the other night, toward the end of finishing the pizza under the broiler my broiler flame started acting even more erratically than it has of late...sputtering, popping, flame waning and then suddenly spurting. I'm pretty sure my terribly abused oven, now with a permanent patina of yellow on the areas near the control dials and back vent point from multiple flare ups, is on the verge of dying.

Made some round pizzas last night. These are the first pizzas I have let other people help top for me in an effort to involve friends more when over for pizza. Fun!

100% Caputo 00 Pizzeria
63% Water
2.80% Salt
3.15% Starter

"Decent" pizzas. The broiler is literally all over the place now...a real battle to get the pizzas to cook without burning. Flare ups and periods of lower heat suck....I'm looking forward to one day cooking pizzas with a heat source that at least approximates a more consistent temperature.

BTW, it is 1000% lame not having a good pizza cutter. Seems like I have everything else, but my chump arse Ikea pizza cutter is far too dull now. Have to go back and forth multiple times and actually flattens the crumb a little while savaging the cutter through the pies.

Good flavor, just okay crumb and structure. Better luck next time and will definitely not attempt to mix dough while having a crying baby on me in a Moby wrap! :-[

Cell phone pics from three of the pies made.

Ruby: Smoked mozzarella, red onion, fior-di-latte, olive oil, salt, aged Spanish mahon, fresh marjoram
Crumb from Margherita: Sauce, fior-di-latte, salt, olive oil, basil, pecorino toscano
Red Rosa: Sauce, fior-di-latte, red onion, basil, olive oil, salt, pistachios, parmigiano-reggiano

Grade: C+, which ain't cutting the mustard. One pie towards the end got completely nuked..you could have played hockey with it after it cooled down!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 08:48:41 AM by pizzablogger »
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #158 on: May 13, 2011, 08:55:57 AM »
For a crappy oven on it's last leg, those are some nice looking pies.  PB, cutting small pizzas with scissors is my preferred method. Nice work.   The crumb looks good to me as well.

Chau


Offline andreguidon

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #159 on: May 13, 2011, 09:17:44 AM »
Hey PB, great serving dishes!! where did you get those??
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #160 on: May 13, 2011, 09:34:01 AM »
Hey PB, great serving dishes!! where did you get those??

Those are some of the Massimo Giacon pizza plates, made and sold by Alessi.

There are six plates in all, typically sold in sets of two plates.

Google Massimo Giacon pizza plates. Amazon has some of these, as do other places. --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline wucactus1

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #161 on: May 13, 2011, 10:09:33 AM »
Thanks PB, your recent square pie and above pies look delicious! The crumb almost has this ethereal look too, im sure contributed to the moistness!
In regards to the pizza cutter situation I can totally relate my pizza cutter is dull and also requires 3-4 passes, completely destroying the crumb most of the time, but i have learned to be quick about it...While Im at gfs today picking up my 25# bag of bouncer im going to see if they have any decent pizza equipment, a cutter and maybe a new peel is in order(current peel is a bit charred...need a custom iron/steel/aluminum peel, with a cool fleur di lis or iron owl...hmmm custom peel, metal shop here I come!)
also a tip for oven PB is to not stick it closest to the broiler, but one below and heat to 550(585 with calibration) until it beeps then place a frozen towel on wait 5 minutes then kick the broiler on for 10-15 and launch the frist pie, this is my method and the top/bottom seem to cook evenly, but your pies look gorgeous so i dont know what your complaining about.

Offline forzaroma

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #162 on: May 13, 2011, 10:10:27 AM »
Man great char from the home oven. I still can't get that with my home oven. Tried broiler method many times but Im not giving up.

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #163 on: May 13, 2011, 10:42:35 AM »
Thanks PB!!
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline wucactus1

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #164 on: May 13, 2011, 10:48:05 AM »
i have been trying to track down those plates for so long ever since seeing them in a una pizza neopalatana picture...but never though they would be that expensive...

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #165 on: May 13, 2011, 10:55:48 AM »
I really want to like them, but I think they just remind me too much of the plates my kids ate off when they were babies...

CL
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #166 on: May 13, 2011, 02:23:07 PM »
I really want to like them, but I think they just remind me too much of the plates my kids ate off when they were babies...

CL

Craig - Funny you say that, as my three year old loves them. I have 12 of them, and he makes a game of which design he will get after he eats his pizza.

Kelly - Outstanding pizza.

John


Offline ponzu

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #167 on: May 13, 2011, 07:13:14 PM »
PB

Really lovely pies.  I really like the balance of your cornicione to center.

That Bianco clone looks great.  Never having tried the real item, I keep on meaning to try those toppings (pistachio, red onions) but have yet to get around to it.

AZ


Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #168 on: May 13, 2011, 07:19:22 PM »
PB

Really lovely pies.  I really like the balance of your cornicione to center.

That Bianco clone looks great.  Never having tried the real item, I keep on meaning to try those toppings (pistachio, red onions) but have yet to get around to it.

AZ



Thanks comrade.

The Bianco is not really a clone, being there is no sauce on the real version...and I was out of rosemary.

I really like the red onion & pistachio combo with sauce, but the real combo steals the show in my opinion.

Parmigiano-reggiano, red onion, pistachios and rosemary are a simple, yet potent combination which lingers.

Sputnik needs to tractor beam those ingredients into space and do a zero-G recreation of that pie. Get to it!  :)
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #169 on: May 14, 2011, 04:52:16 AM »
K,
Very nice job. 

Matt

Offline wucactus1

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #170 on: May 17, 2011, 09:20:16 PM »
So Baked another pie following pretty much the exact same steps and formula as my past pie, the only differing factors where one revolving around the oven.  I tried baking a new york style for my girlfriend and then a neopolitan for myself.  My girlfirends pizza because of the 00 flour and comparatively low heat came out white than a babies bottom despite me preheating a stone on the floor for her...Her stone being on the floor also caused some problems with my stone(by the broiler) and it not getting the proper pre-oven heat, this led to some compensation and estimation, that ultimately led to not bad, but sub-par bakes...Either way the pizza tasted wonderful, atleast it did tonight when I reheated the leftovers, this is undoubtedly due to the attitude toward the pizza I had yesterday after making it(mixture of disappointment and anger), but the crumb remained moist and the exterior crisp.  The rim was slightly more chewy than yesterday(yesterday was sort of chewy as well) and the dough presented a slightly more sour taste than the last bake.  I dont know if its me, but I like a sour dough, not REAL sour, but to a point where it is definitely noticeable, I also cooked the pizza a bit less in part of the oven situation mentioned above and the fact that I have noticed slightly paler pizzas on the forum and have concluded that I much prefer a browner/slightly darker pizza(like my last pie).
also one last note, the bottom of this pizza isnt as evenly charred as my past pizzas and some on here, does anyone know how to guarantee a evenly charred bottom like those often in motorino and upn, and please dont say a SF oven...

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #171 on: June 05, 2011, 10:43:37 AM »
Tried a new technique this bake.  Small amount of CY, 32h RT ferment at ~70F.   Turned out pretty good.

Pie #1 breakfast pie: salsa, scrambled egg, potatoe, cheddah, roaste green chile.


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #172 on: June 05, 2011, 10:45:44 AM »
Pie #2 Marinara, garlic, touch of grated parm, evoo, basil.

 

Offline wucactus1

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #173 on: June 05, 2011, 11:16:27 AM »
YUM Breakfast Pizza...and then a lunch Pizza, they look fantastic, you got some good spring, but the crumb appears a bit dry, was it?
Im making some pizzas tonight around 7...eyeballed 18hr ferm.  Ill post pics, hopefully they turn out as good as yours, but you never know what will happen in the home oven!

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Almost-WFO-politans but baked in the home oven thread.....
« Reply #174 on: June 05, 2011, 01:01:59 PM »
Thx Wu, I didn't think so.  Did they all look a bit dry or was it just a certain one?  I usually try to post several different looking crumb shots from the same pie.

Chau