Author Topic: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer  (Read 14877 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3102
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2010, 02:28:39 AM »

I would also love to see a photo (or video ;D) of your dough cooked at high heat.

That dough is Awesome!


AZ

Ponzu, I didn't go too high with the heat because I am not a huge fan of oil in the dough at neapolitan temps.  I went with a well done New Haven/New york coal oven style pizza and baked it at roughly 700 degrees.   This is an 18 inch pizza.   Even for coal oven style pizzas I typically leave out the oil, but since I also had to use some of this batch of dough in my friends 550 degree oven I put it in there.   The dough still worked out great with the oil, and even though its very well done on the outside, the inside was tender and had a good amount of "melt in your mouth" quality.   I love the places that make a charred coal oven style pizza, but I hate how (especially the new haven places) can sometimes give your jaw too much of a workout by overcooking or using dough thats not at its peak.   This batch turned out to be soft, light and fluffy, allowing me to char the baby up nice without the pizza getting tough.   
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 02:42:30 AM by scott r »


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2010, 08:25:45 AM »
D@mn Scott, is this what my pies can potentially look like in 20 yrs?  With your description, I can just about taste that crust through the screen.  Seriously very nice work.

Chau

Offline widespreadpizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1245
  • Location: NH
    • my beer store opening in june 2011
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2010, 08:53:49 AM »
Scott,  an article,  a video,  and a picture in less than a week?!  Nice looking pizza,  sauce on top ehhh.  nice.  -marc

Offline BrickStoneOven

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1599
  • Location: Boston
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2010, 09:41:50 AM »
Awesome pizza. HE'S BACK.

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3102
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2010, 12:48:23 PM »
sauce on top ehhh.  nice.  -marc

By putting the sauce on top I can use a thinner sauce, which has a fresher flavor.   If your a cheese person it might not be for you, but if your more of a sauce person putting it on last can really make that tomato flavor pop. 

Offline ponzu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 358
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2010, 12:54:54 AM »
Scott that pie is magnificent.  You just keep raising the bar. And distracting me from my high hydration, wild yeast, neo neopolitan focus. :(

That pie rocks.

I am going to buy property in New Haven that pie is so enticing.

How many grams for an 18 inch pie?  is that dry mozz?

I made the 59 % hydration dough per your specs last night.  No oil.  KABF.  IDY. Although it wasn't NASA quality it was at least cosmonaut quality.  Easily passed the glove test and sheeted better than anything that I have previously made.

It was interesting.  after pulling the dough in sheets every which way, I tried to fold it over and do it all again.  Couldn't do it.  I guess the gluten becomes organized during the rest and once it is sheeted it becomes alligned in a particular orientation and can't be reoriented? It makes me wonder if next time I should dissolve my starter in the water prior to adding the flour in order to break up the gluten structure of the starter to homogenize the add -it all -and -turn -it -on mixing suspension?

It was also interesting how different the feel of this lower hydration dough was to my previous, much wetter doughs.  Much easier to work with.  It looked more like the doughs in those neapolitan ball forming videos on You tube.  I wonder how it will taste?

I did miss the sourdough smell though.

I'm learning so much from your approach.

Thank you.

AZ

Offline AKSteve

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • We are all made from the same dough.
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2010, 05:29:36 AM »
Which speed setting do you use when you're mixing? I have also recently "upgraded" from a Santos fork mixer to a Bosch mixer. My biggest gripe with the Santos mixer was that I could never keep the bowl spinning at a consistent speed while it was mixing. I had to sit there the whole time fiddling with it to keep things mixing smoothly.

Offline dwighttsharpe

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 97
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2010, 07:27:23 PM »
Hi guys,

Wonder if the Bosch Compact does as nice a job(for smaller batches)?

Looks like it's back on the market for a while.
Dwight

Offline ponzu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 358
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2010, 08:00:22 PM »
Scott,

Also,  did you cook the pie in an aluminum pizza serving pan?  I am going to try to replicate the pie tonight with a now proofing soviet space agency approved 725 g dough ball.  (based on 18" at a 0.1 thickness factor.)

-Alexi
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 08:04:00 PM by ponzu »


Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3102
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2010, 11:02:09 PM »
Scott that pie is magnificent.  You just keep raising the bar. And distracting me from my high hydration, wild yeast, neo neopolitan focus. :(

That pie rocks.

I am going to buy property in New Haven that pie is so enticing.

How many grams for an 18 inch pie?  is that dry mozz?

I made the 59 % hydration dough per your specs last night.  No oil.  KABF.  IDY. Although it wasn't NASA quality it was at least cosmonaut quality.  Easily passed the glove test and sheeted better than anything that I have previously made.

It was interesting.  after pulling the dough in sheets every which way, I tried to fold it over and do it all again.  Couldn't do it.  I guess the gluten becomes organized during the rest and once it is sheeted it becomes alligned in a particular orientation and can't be reoriented? It makes me wonder if next time I should dissolve my starter in the water prior to adding the flour in order to break up the gluten structure of the starter to homogenize the add -it all -and -turn -it -on mixing suspension?

It was also interesting how different the feel of this lower hydration dough was to my previous, much wetter doughs.  Much easier to work with.  It looked more like the doughs in those neapolitan ball forming videos on You tube.  I wonder how it will taste?

I did miss the sourdough smell though.

I'm learning so much from your approach.

Thank you.

AZ

Wow, you guys are making me feel really good about finding the time to do some posts back here on the forum.   Thanks!   Ok, to answer your questions:

This was a 620g dough ball, but anywhere from 600-650 is great for a thin to medium-thin crust 18in pizza. 
When I bake wild yeast doughs in the bosch this is my method, First I put the water in the bowl, I then put in my starter and turn on the mixer for a while to try to break up the starter and get it hydrated (I use fairly dry starter). I then turn of the mixer and put in the oil (if any), then the flour,  then the salt on top of the flour and mix.
For commercial yeast doughs I sort of do the opposite.   I put water,oil (if any), salt,flour, then the yeast on top of the flour.
If you use lots of yeast (.15% or more) the orders really don't matter, but with smaller amounts of yeast I have run into trouble if the salt and yeast come into contact before mixing. 
The cheese was a combination of dry aged and fresh mozzarella, sauce on top of that, sicilian organo (the kind with stems), garlic infused oil, then imported romano to finish the pie.     
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 11:14:49 PM by scott r »

Offline widespreadpizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1245
  • Location: NH
    • my beer store opening in june 2011
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2010, 11:03:32 PM »
Dwight,  I owned the compact model, before I bought the universal.  It does some things well.   My wife, loved it for batters, quick breads,  whipped cream.  It can make a decent dough,  but nothing crazy.  It is easier to use and cheaper than some others though,  and you could do much worse for the money. -marc

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3102
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2010, 11:07:38 PM »
Which speed setting do you use when you're mixing? I have also recently "upgraded" from a Santos fork mixer to a Bosch mixer. My biggest gripe with the Santos mixer was that I could never keep the bowl spinning at a consistent speed while it was mixing. I had to sit there the whole time fiddling with it to keep things mixing smoothly.

AKSteve, I use the slowest setting on the bosch.  
I can't believe someone else out there actually had the santos and then went to the bosch!   I would love to hear a report back from you after 10 or so batches on which machine ultimately made the best dough for you.   Of course there is no question that the bosch is 10 times easier, and in my mind there is no question that it is more consistently good.  I think that if I had SCpizzas modified Santos that worked at the proper Italian speed, rather than the twice as fast santos (french speed), my feelings might be different, but for me the bosch actually makes a better dough, and it does it easily every time.  

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3102
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2010, 11:09:58 PM »
Scott,

Also,  did you cook the pie in an aluminum pizza serving pan?  I am going to try to replicate the pie tonight with a now proofing soviet space agency approved 725 g dough ball.  (based on 18" at a 0.1 thickness factor.)

-Alexi

Alexi, no baking pans for me unless its sicilian pizza or roman pizza!   This pizza was baked on a stone.   I just use those pizza pans as serving trays.   

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3102
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2010, 12:52:31 AM »
Some inspiration from a real coal oven at totonnos (mine is electric). 

Another very coal oven looking pie from apizza scholls
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 03:15:33 AM by scott r »

Offline dwighttsharpe

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 97
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2010, 02:54:18 AM »
Dwight,  I owned the compact model, before I bought the universal.  It does some things well.   My wife, loved it for batters, quick breads,  whipped cream.  It can make a decent dough,  but nothing crazy.  It is easier to use and cheaper than some others though,  and you could do much worse for the money. -marc

Thank you.
Dwight

Offline ponzu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 358
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2010, 01:42:20 PM »
Some inspiration from a real coal oven at totonnos (mine is electric). 

Another very coal oven looking pie from apizza scholls


Apizza scholls is in my neck of the woods.  Good pie, though I prefer kens artisan.  To my eye your pie looks way better.

AZ

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3839
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2010, 12:43:45 AM »
Scott,

I took a shot at your dough in my Cuisinart SM-55 mixer yesterday.

I also tried your suggested challenge of "beating the hell" out of it...here's a video.

Quote
We all know how much yeast loves air, and that the best mixers incorporate lots of oxygen into the mixing process.   What if you put all the water, and say half the flour from your recipe into the bosch and whip the heck out of it with the beaters.   Then add in the rest of the flour and the normal dough attachment to incorporate all the remaining ingredients, then the 20 min rest followed by the normal mix.

I took a little video and the outcome was pretty clear...the Bosch is a superior mixer. At least to mine.



However, it was a great dough judging by the feel of it and the way it handled. It'll go into the oven soon, but since I don't have an electric one that goes beyond 600F, and I don't dare to put it in the LBE, it might look a bit different than yours.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein


Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3102
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2010, 01:07:39 AM »
It will look a bit different, but 600 is still a great temp.    I think that many of the coal fired ovens in NYC are actually right around that temp for much of the day.     You should be able to get a great pizza, just not the browning I have.   I think your dough looks really good!  Im excited that people are showing interest in my "whip air into the dough" idea, and I hope some people do some side by side comparisons with and without the whip.   

Offline Matthew

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2264
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2010, 05:52:14 AM »
It will look a bit different, but 600 is still a great temp.    I think that many of the coal fired ovens in NYC are actually right around that temp for much of the day.     You should be able to get a great pizza, just not the browning I have.   I think your dough looks really good!  Im excited that people are showing interest in my "whip air into the dough" idea, and I hope some people do some side by side comparisons with and without the whip.   


Hey Scott,
Great job bro!  What method do you use to get your oven to 700 degrees?  I think I'm the only member on the forum with a spiral mixer.  I will shoot a video next time I run a batch batch for my home oven; using your formula.  I have never mixed a dough to full gluten development because I typically do a long fermentation & therefore only mix until I achieve moderate gluten development which takes about 6 minutes.  For the demo purpose I'll use fresh yeast instead of starter & mix for about 10 minutes.  Did you cold ferment the dough prior to using or was it a same day dough?

Matt


Offline Jackie Tran

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7230
  • Location: Albuquerque NM
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2010, 07:02:59 AM »
Mike that dough looks great. Can you detail that particular mix so we have it on file to link back to if we need it?  I'll be interested in your impression of this "whipped" dough after it bakes compared to your regular NY oven pies. Also if I remember correctly your normal hydration ratio is 63% compared to Scotts 59%?

Matt, I asked a similar question. See Scotts reply in reply #10.  Scott r, what I should have asked earlier, is this the consistency you usually mix to or did you only do that for the video to show off what the Bosch can do? Also does the Bosch mix to windowpane in 8m or does the dough only window pane after the 20m post knead rest?

Offline Matthew

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2264
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2010, 08:47:47 AM »


Matt, I asked a similar question. See Scotts reply in reply #10.  Scott r, what I should have asked earlier, is this the consistency you usually mix to or did you only do that for the video to show off what the Bosch can do? Also does the Bosch mix to windowpane in 8m or does the dough only window pane after the 20m post knead rest?

That's exactly it.  I've never mixed a dough to full gluten development & am curious as to the usability window.

Matt

Offline PizzaSean

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 175
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2010, 11:15:10 AM »
Wow, wow, wow...

What a fantastic looking pizza!  I'm curious about a few things - what is your oven setup that you used to get the 700F?  I love the browning and have been struggling in my own setup to achieve that kind of browning on the top of the rim - I'm 550F, soapstone with maybe 6" clearance.  I make 18" pies so far because I like getting the most I can into the oven, and I grew up with 18" pies so they just seem like the only way to go.  Maybe I should try bringing the rack up one more notch for more like 4" clearance or something?

Also... the video made me wonder about my mixing process.  You mentioned that you've done a lot of hand mixing, and since I don't own a mixer that is all I have ever done (in the 2 times I've made dough!! haha).  But anyway... I'm curious because I've done 66% hydration both times and I end up with a very sticky mass that is hard to mix (AT flour I'll also mentioned) and is tough to cut through with the dough cutter when I want to ball it up.  I've been pleased with the end results after a 2-day cold ferment and was leaning towards undermixing/underkneading at the advice of scott123 because he mentioned how my formula cold fermenting for two days would act like kneading functionally. 

So I guess my question is - are there any advantages to having a super smooth dough like what you end up which is more thoroughly mixed?  What would you say they are?  Do I have any hopes of getting near that without a mixer? 

Thanks!
Sean

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3102
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2010, 12:21:17 PM »
Hey Scott,
Great job bro!  What method do you use to get your oven to 700 degrees?  I think I'm the only member on the forum with a spiral mixer.  I will shoot a video next time I run a batch batch for my home oven; using your formula.  I have never mixed a dough to full gluten development because I typically do a long fermentation & therefore only mix until I achieve moderate gluten development which takes about 6 minutes.  For the demo purpose I'll use fresh yeast instead of starter & mix for about 10 minutes.  Did you cold ferment the dough prior to using or was it a same day dough?

Matt, I have an italian countertop oven that I use to get to 700.  I have used your sp5 spiral mixer before and it totally rocks.   Its the only mixer I know of that its small enough for a home, easy to use, and as good as (or better than) the bosch.  The dough I made was left to rest on the counter for two hours after mixing to get a little head start on the fermentation, then it was balled and put into the fridge.   With only .1% yeast this dough was actually still going strong a week after mixing (with a 1 hour warm up time out of the fridge).   If it is used a day or two after mixing I let the dough sit out until it has doubled before I bake with it (which can take many hours).   So in some ways its a fridge rise and a room temp dough combined (depending on when you use it).   When I used it after one week in the fridge there was almost no expansion in volume at all but it baked up just the same (but tastier) as when I used it two days after mixing (the pictured dough).   

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3839
  • Location: SF Bay Area
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2010, 12:31:23 PM »
Quote
Mike that dough looks great. Can you detail that particular mix so we have it on file to link back to if we need it?  I'll be interested in your impression of this "whipped" dough after it bakes compared to your regular NY oven pies. Also if I remember correctly your normal hydration ratio is 63% compared to Scotts 59%?

Chau,

I was basically the same mixing regimen, time-wise, as Scott's with the exception of a minute or so of beating all the water, yeast and half the flour before the rest went in. The cold-rise (bulk) was 24hrs. But like I said before, my home oven doesn't go as high as Scott's so the browning is much lighter as you can see in the pics.

The dough was fantastic, though! Smooth, silky and almost no weak spots except for one but I attribute that to my stretching rather than the dough itself.

I also took a short video of the opened skin so you can see how smooth it is. Excuse dark lighting and the garbled audio but it's a new cam and I'm still trying to figure out all its functions and how to make adjustments on the fly.

I have one suggestion, though, for the guys who might want to use this dough as a basis for a great NY-style pizza since Scott was going after a New haven-style pizza. For that, I'd increase the hydration by one percentage point to 60% and up the yeast to maybe 0.3% instead of 0.1%, then do a 24 - 48 hr cold-rise...but that's just me.

But the pie came out great, regardless. The taste was fantastic. I encourage others to give this one a shot and report back.

Scott, thanks for posting the formula! Great stuff.


Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3102
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Video of dough that just came out of a bosch universal plus mixer
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2010, 12:39:15 PM »
Scott r, what I should have asked earlier, is this the consistency you usually mix to or did you only do that for the video to show off what the Bosch can do? Also does the Bosch mix to windowpane in 8m or does the dough only window pane after the 20m post knead rest?

I am not a big follower of the undermixed dough thing, although I understand the science behind it and have done it many times myself.    I think the no knead recipes that came out a few years ago got a lot of people on this tip, and it works, but for me the absolute best of the best dough batches I have ever made were fairly well mixed.   An under mixed dough can be really good when everything else is in perfect, though.    For me how far a dough is mixed has a lot more to do with how much fermentation I am going to give it, and wether it is going to be a room temp dough, or its going to sit in the fridge for a really long time.   When I baked up this dough yesterday for a friend of mine who is into pizza he couldn't stop talking about how the flavor of my dough just blows away anything he has ever had (and he has been to a lot of eliete pizzerias).   This puzzled me because honestly, this batch of dough was really just meant for you guys to see what the bosch can do with a throw it all in there mix.  If im trying to go for my best possible dough I use a starter, which obviously has all the flavor.   I thought about it and realized that the reason he liked the flavor of my dough so much was because it was really all the way at the end of its possible fermentation cycle.   Now if I had undermixed the dough I would have never been able to get to that amount of fermentation/flavor and still been able to get the pizza into the oven without it acting like a huge blob of green slime (remember that stuff that came in the mini green trash can we played with as kids?).   Having said all that, although this dough may look like it was mixed to ultra full gluten development to some, it really was not even as mixed as most pizzerias around the country are doing.   The bosch just makes dough look like this!

The dough does not look like it did in my video until it has had a 20 minute or so rest after mixing.   
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 12:44:09 PM by scott r »