Author Topic: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good  (Read 12587 times)

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Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2010, 09:14:34 PM »
John - How are you forming the final crust?  Over your hands or on the table?
Thanks
Dave
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Offline fazzari

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2010, 03:31:23 PM »
Here is an experiment using Reinhart's method, his recipe (but upped the hydration rate to 90 percent).  I also took 25% of the flour and made a poolish (12 hour room temp fermention, 100% hydration, just a pinch of yeast).  After 12 hours took poolish and added remaining ingredients and processed just as the recipe calls for.  The final dough was very hard to handle, in fact the portioned doughs are basically plopped into refrigerator containers to ferment at cool temperatures.  I baked the first dough after refrigerating for 12 hours.....although a bit hard to work with...well worth the effort...I made an egg with swiss cheese pizza.   DEELISH!!
John

Offline gtsum2

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2010, 11:44:16 PM »
those are some nice looking pies for sure :pizza:

Offline fazzari

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2011, 11:34:26 PM »
I've been sticking with this method awhile and noticed that Peter Reinhart changed up the method abit on his new website.  It is still the simplest dough in the world to make, but now it takes a bit longer because he has added 3 folds interlaced with 5 minute rests. 
http://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/instructionals/59-written-recipes/92-classic-pizza-dough-neo-neapolitan-style.html
The following pie is made with Roma 00 flour, it contains no oil or sugar (except for about a teaspoon of oil on the baking sheet I made the folds on).  This dough was in the fridge for 30 hours, it weighs 10 ounces and made an 11 inch pizza.  It was baked in my home oven with my tiles at about 620 degrees.
John

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2011, 01:06:57 AM »
Looking Great!
 :pizza:
-Bill

Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2011, 11:26:23 PM »
I made a batch this afternoon using the fold/wait/fold method and the dough looks good.  I did the initial and 2nd mixes with a Danish dough whisk which worked well but took longer than the 1 minute indicted in the instructions.  It took at least 2 minutes to get the ingredients combined but was gentler than a minute in a mixer.  (I guess) 

It would have failed the windowpane test by a mile so I'm really interested to see how things develop over the next few days. 

As I don't have room in the fridge the dough is in the cold garage.  I need to see if the temp is between 32 and 40....
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Offline fazzari

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2011, 01:04:09 AM »
I confess to not knowing what a Danish dough whisk is...so I looked it up...  When mixing without a mixer I've used a wooden spoon, I've used a dough scraper, and I've used the "throw the dough down and roll it up method".  They all worked fine!  Don't think the exact amount of time is what is important..as long as it gets mixed.  Your "windowpane" comment is what drew me to this recipe in the first place, since I first learned about windowpanes from Reinhart himself...and this method seems such a stretch from his earlier recipes.  Hope you have great luck with your dough...if I might make one suggestion...give your dough plenty of time to set out at room temperature after you ball it...even up to 3 hours!!

John

Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2011, 10:46:28 AM »
Like all the 5* Amazon reviews I can't believe I didn't own it sooner and my wife agrees.

The best <$10 purchase I've made in a long time.

Thanks for the tip!
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Offline fazzari

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2011, 12:04:47 PM »
Still playing with Reinhart's methods and recipes....and I have to say, I simply love them!!!  Simple, delicious!!!  I made another batch of dough using Roma oo flour.  The following pie is a 10 ounce dough, stretched to 13 inches, baked in 620 degree deck.

John


Offline DannyG

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2011, 12:38:07 PM »
I used this Reinhart recipe for the first time last night. (Actually, made the dough 3 days ago and had it in the frig until I made the last night.) Before this I use to kneed the dough in my KA for a total of about 14 minutes. 2-initial mix, add oil, 2 mix, rest 5, mix 10. Instead I mixed for about a minute and then used the fold and rests of the Reinhart recipe. It was so easy and the dough was light, airy, and delicious. This will now be my default way for dough. Thanks for bringing it to my attention John.

Offline fazzari

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2011, 05:25:14 PM »
Glad to hear, Danny.  Just payin' my dues for all the info I've gleened from this site!!

John

parallei

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2011, 06:36:46 PM »
Those are some fine looking pies John!  I've been making bread and rectangular pies the past 4 to 6 weeks.  Time to try your recipe out :D

Offline eiram21

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2011, 09:54:18 PM »
Hi Fazzari,
I'm just wondering how you get your home oven to such high temperatures? What kind of oven is it?

Eiram
Marie

Offline fazzari

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2011, 10:29:49 PM »
Just a standard electric oven....I have rack covered with quarry tile, which I put on the top rack..kind of creating a mini oven in the top third of the oven.  I was kinda shocked when I took the temp of the quarry tiles too....I didn't realize my oven would get them that hot...no modifications here.
John


Offline dmaxdmax

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2011, 11:56:32 PM »
My fold and rest pizzas were very good but not as wonderful as I always hope.  I couldn't get good surface tension on the bulk rise (48 hours in the fridge) or the resulting dough balls.  Not bad, mind you, but not great.  The dough stretched out-of-round very easily though it was quite strong and didn't break.

I may try again this weekend with a 72 hour rise.  My fingers are crossed since I don't want to risk my wife's KA (which has been struggling) and have never had much success with hand-kneading.

Dave
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Offline Judon

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2011, 11:14:40 AM »
John - Your pies look amazing. I too am a fan of Neo-Neopolitan dough but didn't go the extra mile til I read your post. Thanks so much for sharing your expertise.

My question. In Peter Reinhart's instructions he says to put the dough in the frig after the stretch & folds. Do you still scale your balls first or do you refrigerate in bulk?

Judy

Offline fazzari

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2011, 05:07:04 PM »
I always scale, ball, and refrigerate...so I can use one dough a day til there gone.  It also makes good experimenting when wanting to know what time does to each batch of dough.

John


Offline mattharris75

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2011, 12:12:09 AM »
I just made some of this dough tonight. It's the first 'high hydration' dough that I've tried to make. Wow! It was a lot different and tougher to work with than what I'm used to. Rather than 'dough balls', they are like 'dough gloops'. Still a little nervous about trying to work with them when I go stretch them. I'll be giving them at least 2 days in the fridge, possibly 3. We'll see. Hopefully it will work out! Wish me luck! :)

buceriasdon

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2011, 08:31:30 AM »
It's true higher hydration doughs can be somewhat intimidating at first to work with. Don't be afraid of using what seems to be a lot of bench flour at first. I use a small plate with flour that after carefully extracting the dough glop I drop it onto the flour and then turn over or sprinkle flour on the top then move to a floured work surface. I smooth out the dusting flour then with flattend hands press the dough ball out somewhat. There are a number of methods to opening and stretching so find one that works for you. With my fingertips I press to form a rim all the way around then starting with light pressure at the center and increasing pressure as I press out towards the rim with a flat hand at a slight angle turning as I go. I have seen others do the opposite starting at the rim and moving to the center. I leave more dough in the center so that when I pick the skin up to stretch my knuckles are supporting the thinned area and the center can be stretched. It won't take much force for the skin to stretch. Go easy, it will come to you. You'll find a technique that works for you and you can start cutting back on bench flour.
Don

I just made some of this dough tonight. It's the first 'high hydration' dough that I've tried to make. Wow! It was a lot different and tougher to work with than what I'm used to. Rather than 'dough balls', they are like 'dough gloops'. Still a little nervous about trying to work with them when I go stretch them. I'll be giving them at least 2 days in the fridge, possibly 3. We'll see. Hopefully it will work out! Wish me luck! :)

Offline mattharris75

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2011, 11:45:30 AM »
Thanks for the tips buceriasdon, I'll be sure to report back with how it works out! :) I've learned so much from everyone here, and I really appreciate the great environment and how willing everyone is to share their tips and tricks.

buceriasdon

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2011, 12:35:59 PM »
I forgot to mention there are a number of You Tube videos that worth looking at also on opening and stretching pizza dough. :-[
Don

Offline mattharris75

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2011, 12:42:55 PM »
I've watched a number of them in the past, including several showing the 'stretch & fold' technique, and this is the first time I've used that particular technique. I've been making pizzas with lower hydration dough for a while and have developed a technique that works pretty well for those, but this is a different animal altogether. :)

Offline mattharris75

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2011, 10:12:32 PM »
Well, I'd say I like this dough recipe pretty well. It was certainly tougher to work with than what I'm used to. The dough was fragile, tearing fairly easily, and didn't have much elasticity. Admittedly, I don't have any experience with dough of this hydration level, so perhaps that's just how it is. But I wasn't shy with the bench flour, and by the 3rd and 4th pizzas I felt much more comfortable working with it. And the best part is how it puffed up beautifully in the oven.

I'd also say it was significantly better after 72 hours of fermentation than it was at 48.

These were cooked at 550 on my BGE stone, 5 minutes total, with the broiler on for the last 2.

First one is pepperoni, roasted sweet red peppers and basil with fresh motz and parmigiano reggiano on a crushed san marzano sauce.

Second one is chevre, caramelized onions (with malt vinegar), rosemary, and local wildflower honey.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 10:18:47 PM by mattharris75 »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2011, 06:29:25 AM »
Well, I'd say I like this dough recipe pretty well. It was certainly tougher to work with than what I'm used to. The dough was fragile, tearing fairly easily, and didn't have much elasticity. Admittedly, I don't have any experience with dough of this hydration level, so perhaps that's just how it is. But I wasn't shy with the bench flour, and by the 3rd and 4th pizzas I felt much more comfortable working with it. And the best part is how it puffed up beautifully in the oven.

I'd also say it was significantly better after 72 hours of fermentation than it was at 48.

These were cooked at 550 on my BGE stone, 5 minutes total, with the broiler on for the last 2.

First one is pepperoni, roasted sweet red peppers and basil with fresh motz and parmigiano reggiano on a crushed san marzano sauce.

Second one is chevre, caramelized onions (with malt vinegar), rosemary, and local wildflower honey.

You made some beautiful looking pizzas. I really like your topping selections and aesthetic, and you got some great oven spring.

These high hydration doughs are a bit difficult to get used to, but they should not tear easily and should be very extensible. If you let the dough go too long, it can over ferment. This causes the dough to become acidic, and tear instead of stretching.

John

buceriasdon

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Re: Neo-Neopolitan.....way too easy....very, very good
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2011, 12:39:58 PM »
mattharris, Great job! ;D Ya done us proud.
Don