Author Topic: Easy first time pizza dough recipies  (Read 10319 times)

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Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2010, 05:04:40 PM »
Vindii,

A dough with sugar in it favors the use of a pizza screen rather than a pizza stone, although up to 2% sugar in a dough should work in a home oven application with a pizza stone. For a dough that is to be used in a day or two, you shouldn't need any sugar.

Is there a particular number of dough balls you would like to make (assuming a 14" pizza size), and do you prefer for the crust to be on the thin side, like an "elite" NY style, or something a bit thicker, like a NY "street" or "slice" style? Also, what kind/brand of flour and yeast do you have on hand?

I think you should be able to post photos at this point.

Peter



I want to start with just enough dough for 1 pizza.  Unless I can make enough for 2-3 and make one after 1 day and another after 3 days?  Not sure how long it can sit before using it.

As far as crust thickness I really don't know at this point.  Anything to start with is ok.  I don't know enough about the different type of pizza crust to know at this point.

I'll add the flour that I have at home once I get back home.  For yeast I have fleishmans IDY and a few small packets of redstar ADY.

Hoping to make some dough tonight to cook up tomorrow.

Thanks again.


Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2010, 07:47:48 PM »
Only have gold metal bread flour.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2010, 08:31:34 PM »
Vindii,

I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with a Lehmann NY style dough formulation for a single 14" pizza:

General Mills Gold Medal Bread Flour (100%):
Water (62%):
IDY (0.40%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (165.15%):
246.76 g  |  8.7 oz | 0.54 lbs
152.99 g  |  5.4 oz | 0.34 lbs
0.99 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
4.32 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.77 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
2.47 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.55 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
407.52 g | 14.37 oz | 0.9 lbs | TF = 0.09338
Note: Dough is for a single 14" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.092; target dough weight = 14 ounces

The above dough formulation requires use of a scale to weigh out the flour and water and the finished dough weight. For the rest of the ingredients, I suggest that you use the volume measurements (rounded off to the nearest measuring spoon value). I don't have a way of converting the weight of the GM bread flour to a volume measurement. However, using the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ and using the Harvest King bread flour as a proxy for your flour, and assuming that you use the Textbook flour Measurement Method as defined in that tool, I estimate that you will need about 2 cups of flour. The amount of water comes to about 1/2 cup plus about 6 teaspoons. 

For background purposes, I suggest that you read the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.msg19503.html#msg19503. That is the thread that I suggest that all newbies attempting the Lehmann NY style dough formulation read in preparation for making the Lehmann NY style pizza.

I selected a yeast value (IDY) of 0.40%. That should get you a dough that you should be able to use after one day or two. If it is cool where you live, you might even get three days out of the dough. Ideally, you want to end up with a dough coming out of the mixer that is around 75-80 degrees F. Any higher than that, the dough will ferment faster and be ready sooner than you might want. So, it is a good idea to use cool water in making the dough. The bowl residue compensation in the above dough formulation is to compensate for minor dough losses that occur during the preparation of the dough. The dough weight you are after is the targeted dough weight (14 ounces in the above case).

If you decide to proceed and have any questions, feel free to post them.

Peter


Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2010, 11:27:35 PM »
Vindii,

I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with a Lehmann NY style dough formulation for a single 14" pizza:

General Mills Gold Medal Bread Flour (100%):
Water (62%):
IDY (0.40%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (165.15%):
246.76 g  |  8.7 oz | 0.54 lbs
152.99 g  |  5.4 oz | 0.34 lbs
0.99 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
4.32 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.77 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
2.47 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.55 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
407.52 g | 14.37 oz | 0.9 lbs | TF = 0.09338
Note: Dough is for a single 14" pizza; nominal thickness factor = 0.092; target dough weight = 14 ounces

The above dough formulation requires use of a scale to weigh out the flour and water and the finished dough weight. For the rest of the ingredients, I suggest that you use the volume measurements (rounded off to the nearest measuring spoon value). I don't have a way of converting the weight of the GM bread flour to a volume measurement. However, using the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ and using the Harvest King bread flour as a proxy for your flour, and assuming that you use the Textbook flour Measurement Method as defined in that tool, I estimate that you will need about 2 cups of flour. The amount of water comes to about 1/2 cup plus about 6 teaspoons. 

For background purposes, I suggest that you read the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.msg19503.html#msg19503. That is the thread that I suggest that all newbies attempting the Lehmann NY style dough formulation read in preparation for making the Lehmann NY style pizza.

I selected a yeast value (IDY) of 0.40%. That should get you a dough that you should be able to use after one day or two. If it is cool where you live, you might even get three days out of the dough. Ideally, you want to end up with a dough coming out of the mixer that is around 75-80 degrees F. Any higher than that, the dough will ferment faster and be ready sooner than you might want. So, it is a good idea to use cool water in making the dough. The bowl residue compensation in the above dough formulation is to compensate for minor dough losses that occur during the preparation of the dough. The dough weight you are after is the targeted dough weight (14 ounces in the above case).

If you decide to proceed and have any questions, feel free to post them.

Peter



I roughly followed the recipe above. Roughly because I don't have a scale or fine measuring spoons. I also followed the instructions in the link you provided but I don't have a mixer so I had to knead by hand.

I mixed the flour and the yeast. Then I mixed the water and the salt.  Then started adding the flour to the water.  Added oil near the end. Kneaded for 5 minutes. Oiled and covered and into the fridge.

Here is a pic.  How do I post the pics so they show up in the thread instead of the link?

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx324/Vindiii/P1110627.jpg

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2010, 11:35:52 PM »

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2010, 11:39:20 PM »

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2010, 09:52:55 PM »
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8671.msg75076.html#msg75076

I read that post and I have the same problem as the others that posted.  My buttons look different than the video.  I'll have to post the pics as links for now.  I can attach them but I don't see a way to add them to the post.

Pizza came out great.  I formed this one by hand instead of rolling like I did on the first couple I made.  I think that made a big difference in the outside crust.  This was the best tasting dough I have made.  We ate the whole thing.  I cooked it about 1-2 minutes too long I think.  The outside crust had just a little too much chew to it.  I cooked the first couple I did for 6-8 minute but after 8 minute I thought this one needed one more so I cooked it for 9.  Should have pulled it 1-2 sooner.  Still was great though.  I think I will make this one again a few times to get the process down a little better then I'll start trying some other doughs.

Many thanks to everyone here and especially Pete.  With you converting the recipe and pointing to good threads to get started it really made this come out good.  I honestly never knew there was this much involved in pizza dough.  I still have a bunch to learn but I'm well on my way.

Here are the pics.


(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx324/Vindiii/th_P11106332.jpg)
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx324/Vindiii/th_P1110635.jpg)
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx324/Vindiii/th_P11106372.jpg)
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx324/Vindiii/th_P11106382.jpg)
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx324/Vindiii/th_P11106422.jpg)
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx324/Vindiii/th_P11106502.jpg)
(http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx324/Vindiii/th_P11106512.jpg)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 09:54:28 PM by Vindii »

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2010, 10:06:42 PM »
Attaching is the only way to add photos to a post:

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2010, 10:10:54 PM »
Vindii,

Considering all of the obstacles that you had to get past, I think you did very well. Congratulations on a job well done. With practice, you will only become more proficient.

In due course, you can decide on whether to get a digital scale, mixer and other paraphernalia that make pizza making easier.

Peter


Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2010, 11:06:27 PM »
Vindii,

Considering all of the obstacles that you had to get past, I think you did very well. Congratulations on a job well done. With practice, you will only become more proficient.

In due course, you can decide on whether to get a digital scale, mixer and other paraphernalia that make pizza making easier.

Peter



Thanks Pete.  All the credit goes to you.

What is the ideal temp to cook this at?  This set-up only gets up to 480 degrees but the gage is above the top stone so the bottom stone is probably hotter.  I have another grill that will get up to 850.  It is a bubba keg and is similar to a big green egg.  I could get stone for that if the higher temp is better.


Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2010, 12:17:44 AM »
Here are the pics.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 12:21:04 AM by Vindii »

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2010, 12:21:46 AM »
A few more.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2010, 10:38:21 AM »
What is the ideal temp to cook this at?  This set-up only gets up to 480 degrees but the gage is above the top stone so the bottom stone is probably hotter.  I have another grill that will get up to 850.  It is a bubba keg and is similar to a big green egg.  I could get stone for that if the higher temp is better.

Vindii,

The only oven I have is a standard unmodified electric oven. When I bake a 14" pizza in that oven, I preheat a Cordierite pizza stone on a lower oven rack position for about an hour at about 500-525 degrees F, which is about as high as I can get it. It takes about 6-7 minutes to bake the pizza. I can get a higher temperature if I use the stone higher in the oven, along with turning on the broiler or doing other things, but that is not something I do very often. Professionals who specialize in the NY style with deck ovens most typically use an oven temperature of around 450-525 degrees F, depending on the hydration, the type of flour used, the crust characteristics sought for, what customers want, etc.

Peter

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2010, 10:52:59 AM »
Vindii,

The only oven I have is a standard unmodified electric oven. When I bake a 14" pizza in that oven, I preheat a Cordierite pizza stone on a lower oven rack position for about an hour at about 500-525 degrees F, which is about as high as I can get it. It takes about 6-7 minutes to bake the pizza. I can get a higher temperature if I use the stone higher in the oven, along with turning on the broiler or doing other things, but that is not something I do very often. Professionals who specialize in the NY style with deck ovens most typically use an oven temperature of around 450-525 degrees F, depending on the hydration, the type of flour used, the crust characteristics sought for, what customers want, etc.

Peter

Sound like there is not much advantage to cooking at higher temps. Maybe I'll try the Keg for fun.  I could also add a touch of smoke flavor using the Keg.  May get it more of a wood oven type of flavor.  What is a common wood used in wood fire ovens?

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2010, 11:11:57 AM »
Cooking at high heat has 2 advantages (actually, 1 advantage and one difference).  The advantage is that at high temps you can pump out the pizzas, 1-2 minutes per pie.  Another is that the high quick heat cooks the pie differently.  Not so much the crust, but the cheese and toppings.  I like the cheese at 900 degrees better than at 500, but prefer the crust at 500 in general.

Since I usually cook 1 or 2 pies in the kitchen oven but 6 or 8 in the WFO it all works out.  I do find myself letting the oven cool more than I did when I first started using it.  My sweet spot is walls around 750 degrees and 600 on the floor with a 2-3 minute bake.

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2010, 12:30:34 PM »
When people talk about how long dough can sit in the fridge what happens if it sits too long?  Does it go bad?  Does it get hard?  How would I know if I leave it sit too long?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2010, 01:48:35 PM »
When people talk about how long dough can sit in the fridge what happens if it sits too long?  Does it go bad?  Does it get hard?  How would I know if I leave it sit too long?

Vindii,

Eventually all doughs will become unusable. When the dough becomes unusable will depend on the type of dough and the dough formulation, especially the amount of yeast, the mode of fermentation (e.g., at room temperature, in the refrigerator, or some combination of both), and the temperature of the dough as it ferments. Sometimes there are visual cues that the dough is about to become unusable, such as a very puffy and soft dough with a profusion of fermentation bubbles and with little or no resistance to the touch, or possibly a slight darkening of the dough with spotting, but sometimes there are few visual cues. Usually the dough becomes unusable when it overferments. That typically happens when the yeast runs out of food (natural or added sugars). Also, with a long fermentation, there are enzymes in the dough, called protease enzymes, that attack the gluten structure over time, causing the gluten to become degraded to the point where the dough becomes highly extensible. When this happens, the water bond with protein is broken, releasing water into the dough, making it wet or slack or "clammy". Such a dough can become hard to handle and it is not uncommon for the dough to develop tears when trying to form it into a skin. Attempts to re-knead or re-ball the dough to restore its physical integrity and character will usually be fruitless, and you are likely to end up with a dough ball that is overly elastic and almost impossible to open up to form a skin. If one is able to actually form a skin out of the dough and to make a pizza out of it, the finished crust is likely to be light in color, because of insufficient residual sugars to contribute to crust coloration, and on the cracker-y side with sub-par oven spring (you need the proper combination of acids in the dough and residual sugar to get good oven spring). The crust is likely to have good flavor, however, because of all of the byproducts of long fermentation that contribute to good crust flavor, as well as aroma.

I often suggest that newbies intentionally let a dough go downhill so that they can see what the phenomena are that are at play as a dough ferments over a long period of time. A good experiment is to make several dough balls and use them one at a time, daily, until they run out, and observe the differences from one pizza to another. For such an experiment to be useful, it is best to make the pizzas identically as much as possible, including the types and amounts of sauce, cheeses and toppings. Otherwise, there will be too many variables to be able to make meaningful comparisons. You might even let the last dough ball expire on its own so that you can see what a dying dough looks and behaves like. Sometimes, people use a dying dough to make breadsticks as not to let the dough to go to waste.

Peter

Offline Vindii

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2010, 02:49:09 PM »
Vindii,

Eventually all doughs will become unusable. When the dough becomes unusable will depend on the type of dough and the dough formulation, especially the amount of yeast, the mode of fermentation (e.g., at room temperature, in the refrigerator, or some combination of both), and the temperature of the dough as it ferments. Sometimes there are visual cues that the dough is about to become unusable, such as a very puffy and soft dough with a profusion of fermentation bubbles and with little or no resistance to the touch, or possibly a slight darkening of the dough with spotting, but sometimes there are few visual cues. Usually the dough becomes unusable when it overferments. That typically happens when the yeast runs out of food (natural or added sugars). Also, with a long fermentation, there are enzymes in the dough, called protease enzymes, that attack the gluten structure over time, causing the gluten to become degraded to the point where the dough becomes highly extensible. When this happens, the water bond with protein is broken, releasing water into the dough, making it wet or slack or "clammy". Such a dough can become hard to handle and it is not uncommon for the dough to develop tears when trying to form it into a skin. Attempts to re-knead or re-ball the dough to restore its physical integrity and character will usually be fruitless, and you are likely to end up with a dough ball that is overly elastic and almost impossible to open up to form a skin. If one is able to actually form a skin out of the dough and to make a pizza out of it, the finished crust is likely to be light in color, because of insufficient residual sugars to contribute to crust coloration, and on the cracker-y side with sub-par oven spring (you need the proper combination of acids in the dough and residual sugar to get good oven spring). The crust is likely to have good flavor, however, because of all of the byproducts of long fermentation that contribute to good crust flavor, as well as aroma.

I often suggest that newbies intentionally let a dough go downhill so that they can see what the phenomena are that are at play as a dough ferments over a long period of time. A good experiment is to make several dough balls and use them one at a time, daily, until they run out, and observe the differences from one pizza to another. For such an experiment to be useful, it is best to make the pizzas identically as much as possible, including the types and amounts of sauce, cheeses and toppings. Otherwise, there will be too many variables to be able to make meaningful comparisons. You might even let the last dough ball expire on its own so that you can see what a dying dough looks and behaves like. Sometimes, people use a dying dough to make breadsticks as not to let the dough to go to waste.

Peter

Great info.  Just one last question.  Looks like from your last sentence that there is really no issue with eating the expoired dough.  May not have the same texture or taste but you don't need to worry about it getting you sick right?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2010, 03:43:26 PM »
Great info.  Just one last question.  Looks like from your last sentence that there is really no issue with eating the expired dough.  May not have the same texture or taste but you don't need to worry about it getting you sick right?

Vindii,

As you will see from Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11344.msg106401/topicseen.html#msg106401, I have made doughs (similar to the one you made) that were cold fermented for up to 23 days. I ate each of the pizzas referenced in the abovereferenced thread. I did not get sick, and to the best of my knowledge, I am still alive. However, that is just my opinion :-D.

As you can see from the posts at Replies 96 and 97 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg41466.html#msg41466, it looks like I would have had to push my 23-day old dough to over a month before worrying about the safety of eating the pizza.

Peter




Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Easy first time pizza dough recipies
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2010, 05:01:34 PM »
black specks will appear as dough is overproofed.  after the black specks, it will start to turn a golden color and smell very odd.  next step is for the dough to mold.
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