Author Topic: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?  (Read 7764 times)

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Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2011, 12:06:22 AM »
Nice idea Gary.   How long should it take for it to thicken at room temps?  Just so I have some baseline.  Do you think the buttermilk will or can interfere with the formation of the curd? 

Chau


Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozzarella

In this article, we read about how mozzarella is made by fermenting the milk using a starter, and after fermentation, rennet is added. I used the method of adding citric acid instead of adding lactic acid by fermenting milk.  Maybe this is where homemade cheese is going wrong. I have some left over lactic acid starter culture that I can add to milk. I use it when I make Lebannon bologna.

Maybe the recipe everyone uses for homemade mozzarella is wrong. Maybe we should use lactic acid to make the milk curdle.


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2011, 12:34:58 AM »
Gary, maybe you are right and maybe this is just the ticket.   I don't have yogurt or buttermilk in the fridge at the moment, but I do have citric acid.  I wonder if milk left at room temps for 12h + citric acid will do the trick.   As I don't know much about making curd the traditional way (and I'll read up on it as I have time) does anyone see any issues with leaving milk at room temps for 12-24h?  Can that be dangerous or could I put myself at risk for getting sick?  If this method yields a better home made mozz with store bought milk, I am definitely interested in trying. 


Chau
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 02:23:01 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2011, 12:42:29 AM »
  Can that be dangerous or could I put myself at risk for getting sick?  Chau

So the guy who tastes raw starter wants to know if milk left in the danger zone of food temps will make him sick? :-D :chef:
I would say just go for it.  (I'm guessing you know a good hospital) LOL ;D
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2011, 12:48:59 AM »
So the guy who tastes raw starter wants to know if milk left in the danger zone of food temps will make him sick? :-D :chef:
I would say just go for it.  (I'm guessing you know a good hospital) LOL ;D

haha - good point.  I have an iron gut anyhow but starter seems so much more benign than bad milk.  I was just envisioning getting diarrhea and being layed up all weekend.  Man that would really ruin my weekend if you know what I mean.  Oh well, it's all for pizza so I guess it's worth it no?  :-X

Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2011, 12:58:44 AM »
Hello all......I honestly thing we are on to why homemade mozzarella burns. I went over to a cheese making forum. Already I read that lactose (milk sugar) is converted to lactic acid by a starter culture in only 60 minutes! The thermophillac culture just means that the starter will die above 132F.

The recipe at this location tells how to make mozzarella like commercial producers, and this cheese should have lower sugar than that where acid is added instead of grown.

http://cheeseforum.org/articles/wiki-lactic-acid-mozzarella-cheese-making-recipe/

It also appears that another tool needed for cheese making is a ph meter.

My grandparents told me that they made cottage cheese in their childhood by putting milk in a shallow bowl on the shelf by the wood cook stove. My grandparents were dairy farmers, drank raw milk every day, etc. People today might get sick eating these things. Grandpa threw hay bales until he was 85, but one week before he died, at 87, his feet swelled up and he died. The Dr. said he died of too many birthdays. I don't think the cottage cheese killed him.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 01:13:14 AM by sacwoodpusher »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2011, 01:10:10 AM »
Very cool find Gary!  So where can I get a thermophilic culture?  Do you think I can just add citric acid to 90F milk, let it set for 60m and then add my rennet, another 60m and I'm okay to proceed.  I need to try this out!

Chau

Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2011, 01:18:56 AM »
Very cool find Gary!  So where can I get a thermophilic culture?  Do you think I can just add citric acid to 90F milk, let it set for 60m and then add my rennet, another 60m and I'm okay to proceed.  I need to try this out!

Chau

Buttermilk in a mesophillic culture. This is like sourdough. Mesophillac culture dies above 102. Use buttermilk. I believe that if you bring buttermilk and milk to 90 degrees, wait about 2-3 hours at the most.....and then add rennet, you will accomplish the same thing. If you run into a problem after 3 hours, salvage the cheese by adding a small amount of citric acid and more rennet.

Do not acidify the milk with citric acid, ferment it by adding you sourdough culture, in this case buttermilk,
and get your acid that way. This also lowers sugar level in the cheese. Use the citric acid only if the curds don't come.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 01:23:03 AM by sacwoodpusher »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2011, 01:30:30 AM »
I will definitely give it a try tomorrow.  Just curious, the buttermilk that is available from the store is labeled as ultra-pasteurized.  Assuming this is pasteurized at really high temps, wouldn't all the bacteria be killed off.  Or is this where the thermophillic culture comes in?

Offline norma427

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2011, 07:27:40 AM »

I went to a mozzarella cheese making class awhile ago.  In that class we made 30 minute mozzarella, but they also talked about making other kinds of cheeses.  This website tells a lot about making cheese, but I donít know if it is the best website about making cheese.  http://www.cheesemaking.com/   I did use citric acid and rennet in raw milk in making my mozzarella.  The instructor I had for learning to make mozzarella did say raw milk or curds do help to make better mozzarella if it is tried at home.

This page tells about basic information about milk in cheesemaking.  http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/239-FAQ-Cheesemaking-and-Milk.html

These are different cultures for making cheese.

http://www.cheesemaking.com/cheeseculturesandmoldpowders.html

Norma
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Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2011, 12:00:12 PM »
I will definitely give it a try tomorrow.  Just curious, the buttermilk that is available from the store is labeled as ultra-pasteurized.  Assuming this is pasteurized at really high temps, wouldn't all the bacteria be killed off.  Or is this where the thermophillic culture comes in?

It is pasteurized BEFORE it is cultured. There is usually a small amount of E coli present in milk before pasteurization. Cows generally live in pastures and barnyards, so this is inevitable.


Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2011, 12:01:53 PM »
It is pasteurized BEFORE it is cultured. There is usually a small amount of E coli present in milk before pasteurization. Cows generally live in pastures and barnyards, so this is inevitable.

It is pasteurized before culturing.   Sorry, the echo is an iPad that hiccups occasionally.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2011, 01:36:44 PM »
Thanks Gary, I'll go out and grab some buttermilk today and give it a try.   Just a quick question, would you let the buttermilk/milk combo sit for 2-3 hours first before adding the rennet or would you add the rennet up front with the buttermilk?   Either way, I'm planning to bring the buttermilk/milk mixture to a temp of 90F first before the 2-3h rest period.  I may let it rest longer as well, I dunno yet.   Also I'm not sure if it's absolutely necessary to cook the curd at 105F for several hours. 

My hope at this point is to just make a stiffer curd than the cheesemaking.com method produces.   If I can do that than I'm confident I can get the proper texture in the final cheese.  Whether it'll taste worth a darn is another story. 

So far I have heard of 2 members getting great results with using raw milk, but none with store bought milk.  I myself have not had outstanding results using the above mentioned technique & store bought milk.  It produces an edible cheese but nothing special.  Not sure it's possible to make outstanding cheese with store bought milk  but I would love to find out. 

Chau
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 03:14:51 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2011, 03:11:11 PM »
Thanks Gary, I'll go out and grab some buttermilk today and give it a try.   Just a quick question, would you let the buttermilk/milk combo sit for 2-3 hours first before adding the rennet or would you add the rennet up front with the buttermilk?   Either way, I'm planning to bring the buttermilk/milk mixture to a temp of 90F first before the 2-3h rest period.  I may let it rest longer as well, I dunno yet.   Also I'm not sure if it's absolutely necessary to cook the curd at 105F for several hours. 

My hope at this point is to just make a stiffer curd than the cheesemaking.com method produces.   If I can do that than I'm confident I can get the proper texture in the final cheese.  Whether it'll taste worth a darn is another story. 

So far I have heard of 2 members great results with using raw milk, but none with store bought milk.  I myself have not had outstanding results using the above mentioned technique.  It produces an edible cheese but nothing special.  Not sure it's possible to make outstanding cheese with store bought milk  but I would love to find out. 

Chau

Well, I am making 2 gallons worth of mozzarella myself as we speak.

I have 1 quart of buttermilk and 2 gallons of whole milk which I have brought up to 95 degrees. I am going to a Rainbow Girls installation and will be back in about 3 hours when I will add the rennet. I'm going to add 1 tablet.

I love this mad scientist stuff. Mostly mad, I guess, but still................My wife loved the first batch I made, we had a caprese salad. I don't think I stretched it enough the last time. The flavor was great, but the texture was between ricotta and mozzarella. I only kneaded mine with a spoon. This time I'll stretch it a little. I don't want rubber, but I don't want ricotta....I want a slightly elastic curd.

By the way, raw milk is about $7 per half gallon in the stores out here. HOWEVER, I know a milk inspector, and I will ask him where I can get some raw milk to make cheese with. I should be able to get it direct from the farm for about $3.00/gallon. I also know of a goat milk farm. They sell the milk for soap, but I bet I can have a talk and convince them to sell me some for soap too, but ask them to take special care in the event I have to wash my mouth out with soap.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 03:18:22 PM by sacwoodpusher »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2011, 03:18:44 PM »
Looking forward to your results.  I made a small amount last night and just had it on a pie.  It was lackluster.  Same texture between ricotta and mozz as you got.  I have gotten better results are far as texture in the past but both tasted the same.   I better way to go is to get a hold of some Poly O curd from restaurant depot.  All you do is warm it up and stretch and it makes fabulous cheese.  Too bad I can't get it locally.  :'(

Chau

Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2011, 09:45:45 PM »
Looking forward to your results.  I made a small amount last night and just had it on a pie.  It was lackluster.  Same texture between ricotta and mozz as you got.  I have gotten better results are far as texture in the past but both tasted the same.   I better way to go is to get a hold of some Poly O curd from restaurant depot.  All you do is warm it up and stretch and it makes fabulous cheese.  Too bad I can't get it locally.  :'(

Chau

Did you make the one with buttermilk or the one with citric acid? I just stirred the rennet into the curdled milk. When I came home, it was thickening, but not curdled. I made the mistake of stirring it and shouldn't have.  The curd is again beginning to separate from the whey. I will let you know.

I am not finished with this process, and I will let you know as soon as I know, but there are 3 things I will need to buy:

Mesophillac culture
Thermophillac culture
A PH meter
Rennet that I trust. I suspect that the Junket tablets I buy at the store as as old as the store. Who buys it anymore?

Maybe even a book on cheesemaking.

The IR thermometer makes it much easier to cook pizza, the instant read thermometer makes it much easier to turn out steaks that are cooked right every time. I need a PH meter for cheese.

I'm not giving up. I'll let you all know when I learn how to do it right.







Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2011, 10:48:38 PM »
Gary the cheese I made last night was with citric acid and liquid rennet.   I got caught up making pizza and bread today and didn't get a chance to get some buttermilk.   

I have read on some sites that the junk rennet tablets will work and others say that it is not strong enough.  If you can find the liquid rennet, I think that is better. 

I'll have to give the buttermilk culture method or long method a try but I don't have high hopes.  Even if I can get the right consistency in the curd, I'm not confident the flavor will be there as perhaps compared to raw milk.   If you can source raw milk at $3/lb then I think it would be worth the effort. 

Good luck Gary.

Chau

Offline sacwoodpusher

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2011, 12:01:54 AM »

I have to report total failure of my mozz tonight.

I had tiny curd particles, and I think I had all three of the causes in my batch:

1)I believe the 5 hours I was away made the milk thick, but too acidic.
2)I stirred the mix after the rennet started to cause setting, but before done
3)Trying to fix the problem by overheating the milk that was settin in tiny curds.

This was as bad as the first time I tried to cook a pizza in my new oven. I estimate the floor was 1100 degrees F when I threw the pizza in. The entire pizza turned black.....in about 20 seconds. Yeah, I
know....but we all learn.

I know that Pizza Bianco makes their own mozz, and they are definitely not using raw milk. The problem is our technique. The first batch of acid/ rennet showed my stretching was inadequate, I think.



[/quote]
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 12:04:46 AM by sacwoodpusher »

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2011, 09:06:34 PM »
This link is an article about moz from the "Pete-zza"  equivalent of a cheese making forum I read.  The interesting part is the last tip in the bulleted section...how to prevent browning when using the cheese on pizza. 

http://www.wacheese.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48
-Jeff

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2011, 07:07:45 PM »
Gary not sure if you have tried making mozz again.  Here is another good link posted by member Pizzablogger recently. 

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/Mozzarella/MOZZARELLA_jn0.HTM

Offline LaheyDisciplenNica

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Re: Why does my home made mozzarella burn?
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2011, 01:25:25 AM »
Yeah just used  the uc  method tonight and loved it! best mozz i have ever made. Tomorrows Marg shall be a treat!


 

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