Author Topic: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas  (Read 55063 times)

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #80 on: May 31, 2011, 02:58:47 PM »
Thanks for re-acquianting me with this technique aimlessryan.

Glad I could help, and thanks for giving me new ideas in your Malty Laminated Beer Pizza thread.

When I last posted, I said I expected my next batch of Tommy's style dough to be primo. Well, it wasn't. It wasn't even close. Aside from leaving the scraps out at room temperature for 16 or 20 hours (as I said I intended to do), I also made a small change to the formula, dropping the hydration figure from maybe 42 to 40. (It's hard to say the exact percentage because I keep using scraps from batches with slightly different hydration levels.) Anyway, these pizzas sucked, and they weren't pretty, either. The problem seemed to be mainly that the hydration is too low, but I'm not sure yet. Hopefully I'll find out with the next batch.

I made a new batch of dough about an hour ago, with 16 oz of scraps and 29 oz of new dough (I think). With the new dough, I bumped up the hydration figure from 40 to 43 (which I think makes this batch about 42%). I'm gonna let the dough bulk-ferment for at least two hours before I divide then roll the first skin, which I will use tonight.

I'll try to document the results if I get some good ones, but I'm really distracted right now by some things (a beautiful girl recently barged into my life from out of nowhere and stole my heart despite my valiant resistance), so I might be kinda stupid and unreliable for a while. Hopefully, though, these boards will help me get my mind straightened out.


Offline jweaver64

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2011, 09:08:24 AM »
Looking at the first picture in the first post, the crust looks like a toasted lasagna noodle (used to snack on those as a kid. :P)
I'm assuming it's because what was mentioned on the last page (laminated crust) but I thought I'd point that out.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2011, 12:34:57 PM »
Last night's pizza was incredible, even though the laminations didn't come out as pronounced as I'd like. Consequently, I'm feeling good about the 42% hydration figure. Sorry, I only took one pic, and it was an overhead that's not really worth sharing, so no new pizza pics right now. I'll make a better effort to take some pics of tonight's dinner.

I want to try an experiment with oil soon, using 0% oil for one batch of dough and 15% oil for another batch. This might lead to some complications since I won't know how much to decrease (compensate) the hydration of the 15% batch.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 02:57:19 PM by AimlessRyan »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2011, 11:16:40 AM »
Here are some pics of a couple recent Tommy's-style pizzas I've made. I wanted to post four other pics, but Picasa keeps making them disappear after I crop and edit them. It's really pissing me off. I'll provide details about my current formulation and procedures in the next post.

Pic 1: You can see one of the characteristics I'm really shooting for: multiple laminates. A little out of focus, but I think you can see what I want you to see here.

Pic 2: A little bit of blistering on the bottom of the crust. Not as much as I want, but at least there's some. Although it has a nice brown color, I'm shooting for less browning. Consequently, I've been decreasing the sugar content a little with each batch of dough I make.

Pics 3 & 4: Pretty self-explanatory.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 01:56:40 PM by AimlessRyan »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2011, 01:10:26 PM »
Formula for the dough in my most recent pics:

100% All Trumps Flour
44% Water
0.6% Active Dry Yeast
0.5% Salt
5% Oil
0.5% Sugar

*The hydration figure is a bit of an estimate because I added scraps from a batch of dough with a slightly different hydration figure. I also added a few ounces of excess dough from a very soft NY style dough. 44% is probably a good estimate, though.

OK, so here's the details:

1. I removed the previous batch's scraps from the refrigerator about 24 hours before mixing the dough.
2. This dough was about 50% fresh dough, 50% scraps. That's considerably more scraps than I had been using, and it is definitely better this way.
3. I started mixing about 30 oz of dough using the formula above. Right away I added about 15 oz of scraps from previous batch of dough. Throughout the remainder of the 5-minute mix time I added small chunks of the remaining 15 oz of scrap dough.
4. After mixing, I placed the dough into a 9x9 square cake pan and pressed it with my fists in an attempt to make the dough take the shape of the pan.
5. I covered the dough loosely with plastic wrap and set a timer for 30 minutes.
6. After a 30-minute "bulk-ferment," I pressed the dough again to make it better take the shape of the pan, then I removed the dough from the pan. This short "bulk-ferment" is a crucial procedure because, as I said in a recent post, Tommy's dough is heavily fermented (due to the scraps) but essentially unleavened. If I could get the dough to take the shape of the pan without the short bulk-ferment, I would omit the bulk-ferment.
7. I removed the dough from the cake pan and divided it into 8 cubes of about 7 oz apiece. I bagged 6 of the dough cubes and immediately put them in the refrigerator.
8. I immediately rolled the two remaining dough cubes. I rolled each dough cube to at least 12" x 12", then folded into four laminates with a liberal dusting of bench flour between each laminate.
9. Without adding any bench flour between the two pieces of dough, I rolled them together into one dough "pre-skin."
10. When the pre-skin was large enough to accommodate my seasoned, perforated 10" pan, I placed the pan atop the pre-skin and cut out a 10" dough skin with a pizza wheel.
11. I set the scraps aside and weighed the skin. It was probably about 10.5 oz, which is a lot more than I needed.
12. I put the skin back on my work surface and rolled it so it was a little bigger than 10", then used the pan again as a template to trim. (I usually have to do this a couple times to get the proper dough weight, which seems to be about 9.25 oz (TF=0.1178).
13. I do not dock the dough, as this dough should not be docked.
14. After I trimmed the dough to the proper weight, I rolled the skin a little more to make it nearly an inch bigger than the pan (because it always shrinks in the fridge).
15. I put the skin on the pan and placed them both in the fridge, uncovered. I also bagged the scraps and put them in the fridge.
16. I left the dough in the fridge for a few hours.
17. After preheating the oven at 500 for at least half an hour, I removed the skin from the fridge.
18. I sauced and cheesed the skin, using about 2.5 oz of sauce and 5.25 oz of cheese. (I also added pepperoni to the pepperoni pizza at this point. Duh.)
19. I placed the pan on a stone on the bottom rack of the oven. (I have to put a piece of aluminum foil on the top rack to preven excess top heat, but that's only because my oven sucks. You probably won't have to do that.)
20. I tend to bake for 11 or 12 minutes on the pan, then finish directly on the stone for about a minute and a half or two minutes. (Keep a bubble popper handy; you'll probably need it. DO NOT DOCK THE DOUGH!!!)

Sauce
12 oz can of tomato paste
1 can of water (12 oz)
2 tsp dry basil

Changes I plan to make, or other important things I should let you know:
1. I've been decreasing the sugar figure with each batch. It's down to 0.25% with my latest batch, and that is still too high. So there is a good chance I'll end up cutting sugar out entirely.
2. Hydration should probably be about 42%. However...
3. ...With my next batch, I'll probably omit oil, just to see how that works out. If I do that, I'll probably also bump the hydration up to 44% or 45%.
4. I'm pretty sure Tommy's uses AT LEAST as much scrap dough as fresh dough in each new batch of dough. Now that I'm using about 50% scrap dough, I'm finally starting to get the heavily fermented flavor that is so present in Tommy's pizza, yet I'm not ending up with a crust that seems overfermented.

How was that? Any questions?

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #85 on: June 22, 2011, 04:47:51 PM »
The blister mystery is no more.

I rolled a skin last evening, put it on a pan, covered it with plastic wrap, and left it in the fridge for maybe 18 hours. This pizza ended up very blistered on the bottom, much like the Tommy's pic in this thread's original post. Also, the pizza sucked, even though the same dough made a fantastic pizza yesterday. The only difference between the two pizzas (aside from the one-day difference in dough age) is that I used yesterday's skin only a couple hours after I rolled it.

As I believe I've said elsewhere in this thread, I think heavy blistering is atypical of Tommy's pizza. I now suspect blistering is an anomaly that occurs the day after an abnormally slow day, when they rolled more skins than they ended up needing.

That was pretty much the last thing I needed to figure out. I have essentially cloned Tommy's, and I'll try to get some good pics up here soon. Bad news, though: My KitchenAid bit the dust this morning, so I don't know if I'll be able to make any more Tommy's-style dough for a while.

Here's the formula for the dough I was making when the mixer died:

100% All Trumps
46% Water
0.6% Active Dry Yeast
0.5% Salt

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #86 on: June 28, 2011, 05:54:28 PM »
That sucks about your mixer. 46% is super low and I am sure just about anything on the market for home use isn't going to be mixing a dough with that hydration for long.

When that's mixed it is still clumpy or does it actually pull together?

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #87 on: June 28, 2011, 07:24:40 PM »
When that's mixed it is still clumpy or does it actually pull together?

I mix until it's a cohesive mass; until everything is incorporated and sorta smooth, but not really developed. About five minutes, I guess. (For the last couple minutes, I hold the crank in a position that allows the bowl to move down if the hook contacts an especially thick mass of the dough.)

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #88 on: July 26, 2011, 12:20:07 PM »
I have a couple things to add here before I disappear for two years. (I'm getting ready to do a 48-state/10,000-mile walk. If you have any questions you'd like me to answer about what I've learned throughout this thread, I'll probably be around for a few more weeks before I hitchhike to Maine to begin the walk.)

I'm up to 49% hydration. If you've followed my updates, you've surely noticed that my hydration figure has risen considerably over time. Well, that's because I keep learning through constant trial-and-error. I think the hydration level of Tommy's dough might even be a little higher than 49%, but 49% is really close.

I'm starting to feel like scraps should not exceed 50% of the total dough weight. If I use more than 50% scraps, the crust ends up dense and lifeless, as if it was made entirely of overfermented dough.

TF = 0.1273 oz per square inch. Even though I used a considerably lower TF throughout most of this thread, I feel very comfortable with this figure.

I haven't taken (or posted) any pictures in a while, so maybe I'll try to post a few new ones before I hit the road.

Offline chrisgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2011, 05:56:48 PM »
I have a couple things to add here before I disappear for two years. (I'm getting ready to do a 48-state/10,000-mile walk. If you have any questions you'd like me to answer about what I've learned throughout this thread, I'll probably be around for a few more weeks before I hitchhike to Maine to begin the walk.)

I'm up to 49% hydration. If you've followed my updates, you've surely noticed that my hydration figure has risen considerably over time. Well, that's because I keep learning through constant trial-and-error. I think the hydration level of Tommy's dough might even be a little higher than 49%, but 49% is really close.

I'm starting to feel like scraps should not exceed 50% of the total dough weight. If I use more than 50% scraps, the crust ends up dense and lifeless, as if it was made entirely of overfermented dough.

TF = 0.1273 oz per square inch. Even though I used a considerably lower TF throughout most of this thread, I feel very comfortable with this figure.

I haven't taken (or posted) any pictures in a while, so maybe I'll try to post a few new ones before I hit the road.

Please do!


Offline BTB

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #90 on: July 28, 2011, 11:33:21 AM »
I have a couple things to add here before I disappear for two years. (I'm getting ready to do a 48-state/10,000-mile walk. If you have any questions you'd like me to answer . . . I'll probably be around for a few more weeks before I hitchhike to Maine to begin the walk.)

Wow.  Have a nice trip.  Hope you find some great pizzas along the way.  I assume that you don't have any kind of regular employment.  Is there any specific cause or program that you are doing this in connection with?  Take extra pairs of shoes along.

                                                                          --BTB

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #91 on: July 28, 2011, 02:38:04 PM »
Wow.  Have a nice trip.  Hope you find some great pizzas along the way.  I assume that you don't have any kind of regular employment.  Is there any specific cause or program that you are doing this in connection with?  Take extra pairs of shoes along.

Thank you. I most surely will have a nice trip.

I've found that this seems to be my way of staying genuinely happy, even though I already know it will be defined by intense pain, constant discomfort, hunger, poverty, police harassment, etc. There's just something about going through all that stuff for a long time that makes you really appreciate the little things most people take for granted, like eating. Maybe I feel like I have something more to prove after last year's coast-to-coast walk. (Or maybe I don't; I'm not sure.) Nope, no regular employment; kindness of strangers keeps me alive. I specifically walk without a cause because this is not for attention. Be very hesitant to trust anyone with "a cause" because almost all of them are phonies. (I know that's not the popular thing to say, but it's the truth.)

Again, thanks.

Offline BTB

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #92 on: July 28, 2011, 03:15:19 PM »
Ryan,
 
Reflecting on you latest plans . . . it becomes more clear about the moniker "Aimless," eh?  Good luck.  Hope you have an old digital camera to document your trip a little.  That might be worth something someday.  If I were 20 years younger and with a better knee, I'd like to travel along with you as my "corporate days" are over.  Take care and enjoy the adventure.  It may be hard to understand for many (as it was to me at first), but if it feels good to you, definitely . . . why not.  Maybe your travels will even take you across the doors of . . . Tommy's Pizza in Columbus, Ohio!
 
                                                                               --BTB

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #93 on: August 02, 2011, 06:17:03 PM »
TF = 0.1273 oz per square inch. Even though I used a considerably lower TF throughout most of this thread, I feel very comfortable with this figure.
Forget what I said there; that's way too thick. I got into a habit of making it that thick for a while, and it seemed about right, but now I realize that's almost certainly not right. I've tried TF = 0.1146 the last couple days, and this seems much more like Tommy's; maybe even still a little too thick. (This is 9 oz of dough for a 10" pizza, rather than 10 oz of dough.) I need to make another trip to Tommy's before I hit the road. I think my most recent visit was last December.

Quick recap: TF = 0.1146, not 0.1273. At least for now.

Offline briterian

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #94 on: September 15, 2011, 04:13:53 PM »
Ryan - you are probably still walking...

is this the final recipe you ended up on?
100% All Trumps
46% Water
0.6% Active Dry Yeast
0.5% Salt

No oil?  Looking forward to trying this.


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #95 on: September 15, 2011, 05:59:26 PM »
Ryan - you are probably still walking...

is this the final recipe you ended up on?
100% All Trumps
46% Water
0.6% Active Dry Yeast
0.5% Salt

No oil?  Looking forward to trying this.

Yes, walking. Wilton, New Hampshire. I can't remember everything right now, but I wouldn't say final. Really close, though. I think 48-50 worked well for water. I'd say no oil is the way to go. I'll try to say more if I think of anything and get a chance.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #96 on: September 15, 2011, 07:48:59 PM »
LOTSA bench flour between laminates is key. No bench flour between the two layers.

Offline AlmightyJB

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2011, 11:51:52 PM »
Hi AimlessRyan,  I've been eating Tommy's for 45 years since I was a baby.  Their pizza and sub grease is like mothers milk to me.  I appreciate your dedication to this project.  I stumbled across this site looking for a good cracker crust recipe.  I'll definately be working off of your notes.  Not sure if you had ever heard this but I have heard that they use butter in their crust.  I'm not sure how reliable that information is so I would take that with a grain of salt but certainly with other pastry I know butter is used to get a flakey texture.  Anyway's I really do appreciate that you've taken the time to share all of this information.  I'll be happy if I can even get close to what you've managed here.  Thanks!

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #98 on: December 22, 2011, 03:51:19 PM »
Hey y'all: I quit my trek after walking more than 350 miles from Portland, Maine to Westerly, Rhode Island (via Manchester, NH, Brattleboro, VT, Worcester, MA, and Providence, RI). Up until September 28, I had every intention to keep walking for the next two years, through 48 states. However, as I entered Westerly that day, I was quickly harassed and roughed up by cops. I then spent the next 16 nights in jail for having the balls to expect our well-paid public servants to respect the United States Constitution. (I once heard this was the Land of the Free.)

By the time I got out of jail I had decided not to continue the walk. However, I did continue traveling for a little while longer (walking, hitchhiking, public transit), visiting friends in NYC, NJ, and DC. I made it home to central Ohio the day before Thanksgiving.

I haven't made any pizza since I got home because: 1) My mixer is broken, and 2) I have none of my normal ingredients. However, I have had pizza on my mind lately, and I may soon begin fooling around again with my most recent formulation, substituting all-purpose flour for hi-gluten flour. I've come really close to replicating Tommy's, but I haven't nailed it yet, so this thread is nowhere near dead.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2012, 03:01:30 PM »
This question is off topic but could giordanos be laminating their dough in this style to get all the flaky layers in their stuffed pizza? 
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.