Author Topic: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc  (Read 7663 times)

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 10:24:35 PM »
Norma,

I admit, though, that I haven't really looked for those two brands because tonight's the first time I hear about them. Anyway, I will look for them and see what I can find.

Is it a matter of preference to you or why do you use two kinds of mozzarella? I have used two kinds before but they were the same brand, except low-moisture/part-skim and whole milk.
Mike

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Offline norma427

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 10:25:45 PM »
Norma,

On the matter of using eggs in a pizza dough, it is rare to see them used in pizza doughs. Donatos, the Midwestern pizza chain, used to use eggs, along with milk, and used to brag about using them since they were both part of a prized original family recipe, but it suddenly stopped talking about them a few years ago. If they are using those ingredients today, they most likely are not in fresh form or Donatos is super careful in their commissaries to use such ingredients properly. In the litigious business environment we find ourselves in, pizza operators are reluctant to use fresh eggs and milk because of food safety concerns and potential cross-contamination issues. Also, health departments and inspectors are not crazy about raw eggs in food products. It perhaps will not come as a surprise to you to learn that Tom Lehmann is not a fan of raw eggs at all. He also isn't crazy about fresh milk either. For some typical Lehmann PMQ Think Tank posts on the subject of eggs in a commercial setting, see http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3423&p=17983&hilit=#p17983 and http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=822&p=3764&hilit=#p3764.

I am sure that you could perhaps find a way of safely using the bagel dough to make pizzas at market, but there are risks involved that have to be taken into account.

Peter


Peter,

When Steve (Ev) and I made this Fairmont Bagel dough pizza today, we laughed when we saw how the pie was baking and then when we tasted the finished pizza we both thought this was the best recipe for a pizza.  I donít know if it was the combination of the malt powder, eggs, wildflower honey, and the milk kefir poolish that made this crust taste so good or not, but I was surprised how this pizza turned out.  I did give the dough a 30 rest, before I added the salt.  At least this pizza did get brown on the rim.  I also used olive oil, instead of soybean oil in the formula.

I am sure there are safety issues with using milk and eggs in dough.  I wonder if the friendly bacteria in the milk kefir, keeps this dough okay.  Try telling that to the food inspectors.   :-D

Thanks for the links from Tom Lehmann.  :)

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2010, 10:31:45 PM »
Norma,

I admit, though, that I haven't really looked for those two brands because tonight's the first time I hear about them. Anyway, I will look for them and see what I can find.

Is it a matter of preference to you or why do you use two kinds of mozzarella? I have used two kinds before but they were the same brand, except low-moisture/part-skim and whole milk.

Mike,

I have always used the one kind of mozzarella, Bella Fran, which was whole milk.  I had tried the 1950 Foremost brand in low-moisture/part-skim, but found I like both whole milks now.  I have played around with using different cheeses on my pizzas.  I even used some cheddar as part of the blend at one time. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2010, 10:39:27 PM »
Norma,

Some time ago I found a simple article on how eggs work, at http://www.preparedpantry.com/HowEggsWork.htm. I think you can see some of the ways the eggs performed in your bagel dough.

It will be interesting to see the final recipe when you post it. I'm curious about the final hydration you ended up with.

Peter

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2010, 10:42:55 PM »
Norma,

The use of eggs in baked products is also discussed in the article at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8395.msg72522.html#msg72522.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2010, 11:10:44 PM »
Norma,

Some time ago I found a simple article on how eggs work, at http://www.preparedpantry.com/HowEggsWork.htm. I think you can see some of the ways the eggs performed in your bagel dough.

It will be interesting to see the final recipe when you post it. I'm curious about the final hydration you ended up with.

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for referencing the article about eggs and what they do.  I find it interesting what they do.  The bagel dough pizza was very light and also moist.  The pizza also had a really good taste in the crust.  I guess that all came from the eggs that were added.  Thank for also referencing the other article.  It seems like the eggs used as emulsifiers helped in this experiment to make a different pizza.

I will do the write-up tomorrow, for all the steps I took in making this dough, the amounts and kinds of ingredients used and also how long I left the milk kefir poolish to ferment.  I hope you can figure out the hydration of this formula I used, because I canít. The dough was sticky, but after dusting with flour, it became manageable.  I found it interesting when I took the pH of this dough before the bake that it was 5.44. 

I did do a search on the forum about eggs in dough, before I made this Fairmont bagel pizza dough.  I found those posts interesting.

Norma
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 11:15:08 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2010, 09:44:28 AM »
Norma,

It will be interesting to see the final recipe when you post it. I'm curious about the final hydration you ended up with.

Peter

Peter or anyone else that is interested in this Fairmont Bagel dough pizza,


These are the ingredients I used for the Fairmont Bagel Dough Pizza

100 grams durum flour
163 grams KABF
95 grams Water
4.595 grams Filippo Berio Olive Oil for Sauteing & Grilling
8.27 grams wildflower honey
4.59 grams Diastatic Malt Powder (King Arthur)
2 medium eggs
4 grams Mortonís Kosher salt-I decided to add salt

Preferment (milk kefir poolish)

70 grams milk kefir
70 grams KABF

Added 10 grams KABF while forming the dough ball, over a period of different times

Let milk kefir poolish ferment in oven with light on for 4 hrs. until it looked ready to use.
Mixed milk kefir poolish with water, wildflower honey and eggs (didnít beat eggs first)      
Sifted flours with diastatic malt powder
Put mixture of milk kefir poolish with water, wildflower honey and eggs in Kitchen Aid mixer, added sifted flours with diastatic malt powder, Mixed on speed 1 and stopped several times to incorporate flour, with fingers and spoon. Mixed on speed 2 for about 3 minutes.. Let dough autolyse for 30 minutes.  Added salt and mixed again until Mortonís Kosher salt was incorporated.  Then added Filippo Berio Olive Oil and let mix, until incorporated. 

Take dough out of mixer, put into plastic container.  Every half hour for 2 hrs. reball dough with some of the 10 grams KABF.  Dough was sticky and stuck to my fingers. Each time I reballed dough ball it became less sticky. Oil dough ball with a little oil, let sit at room temperature for 5 hrs.  Cold ferment dough for 1 day, reballed because the dough ball looked like bubbles on top and many bubbles on bottom of plastic container. Back into the refrigerator for 2 days to cold ferment.  Let dough ball at room temperature to warm-up for 2 hrs.  Dust top of dough ball with flour. First picture in this thread is bottom of dough ball (after I removed it from the plastic container).  Put flour on bottom, open skin, dress, bake.  I did check while I was baking this pie and the bottom looked like it was going to get too dark, so I put the pie on a screen for the last minute of baking.

Norma
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Offline Ev

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2010, 10:58:05 AM »
Thanks for the recipe Norma. I'm going to try it, albeit, with a few changes. I may substitute semolina for the duram flour, just because that's what I have on hand. I think I'll eliminate the malt powder just because I'm not convinced it's needed.(plus, I don't have any :-D)(I suppose I could sub in a little sugar maybe.)
 I think my kefir is ok after I fed it yesterday, but I may just use a plain IDY poolish, "just to see", as it were. I'll just pick an appropriate amount for a 2 day cold fermentation.
 As far as "medium" eggs go, my chickens only produce extra-large to jumbo , so I'll use 3 of those for a 2 ball batch instead of 4.
  I'll bring a ball to market next week and do a side by side with yours.

Maybe I'll go ahead and double this and make some bagels as well! ;D
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 11:04:58 AM by Ev »

Offline norma427

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2010, 12:28:50 PM »
Thanks for the recipe Norma. I'm going to try it, albeit, with a few changes. I may substitute semolina for the duram flour, just because that's what I have on hand. I think I'll eliminate the malt powder just because I'm not convinced it's needed.(plus, I don't have any :-D)(I suppose I could sub in a little sugar maybe.)
 I think my kefir is ok after I fed it yesterday, but I may just use a plain IDY poolish, "just to see", as it were. I'll just pick an appropriate amount for a 2 day cold fermentation.
 As far as "medium" eggs go, my chickens only produce extra-large to jumbo , so I'll use 3 of those for a 2 ball batch instead of 4.
  I'll bring a ball to market next week and do a side by side with yours.

Maybe I'll go ahead and double this and make some bagels as well! ;D

Steve,

Your welcome for the recipe, but maybe you want to see if Peter can convert this recipe to Bakerís percents.  We did also use more bench flour yesterday, which I forget to mention, when we dusted the top of the dough ball, floured the bottom of the dough ball, and used bench flour.  I am not sure if that also needs to be calculated or not. 

I wonder if you reheated the one leftover slice and how it reheated.  I forgot to take mine home and it is still in a bag over at Rootís. With all that carrying on over at Rootís with the stealth things going on over there, I am half afraid to go over by myself to retrieve my leftover slice.  I might decide to go over later today to get my leftover slice. 

LOL, I saw your chickens and also the eggs they produce.  :-D They really were big eggs.  ;D  Mine were just medium brown eggs, I purchased at the grocery store used in the recipe.  You can decide how many eggs to use in your recipe.  Good to hear your milk kefir might be okay.  I told you, that the milk kefir needed to be fed. 

Good to hear you will bring a dough ball to market next week to compare with mine.  Weíll see how that goes.

Best of luck with your pizza and bagels.  Let us all know how they turned out.  If it wasnít for Marc and his posting his thread about Fairmont Bagels, we wouldnít have been able to taste the Bagel Pizza.

If you need any malt powder, I will bring you some next week.

Norma
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Offline Ev

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2010, 02:00:08 PM »
I just finished the re-heated slice from yesterdays bake at market. I baked in my toaster-oven at 450 for 5 minutes from a cold start. The cornicione was slightly drier, to be expected, but not in the least tough or overly chewy which can be expected from "left-over" pizza. The slice today, as it did yesterday, had a definite N.Y. style foldable droop, yet retained a definite fine layer of crisp. The flavor yesterday was quite amazing really, and did not suffer one bit, as far as I could tell, from spending the night in the fridge.
 Norma, I think if you play your cards right, you are on your way to discovering the next "Big Thing"!


Offline norma427

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2010, 02:10:56 PM »
I just finished the re-heated slice from yesterdays bake at market. I baked in my toaster-oven at 450 for 5 minutes from a cold start. The cornicione was slightly drier, to be expected, but not in the least tough or overly chewy which can be expected from "left-over" pizza. The slice today, as it did yesterday, had a definite N.Y. style foldable droop, yet retained a definite fine layer of crisp. The flavor yesterday was quite amazing really, and did not suffer one bit, as far as I could tell, from spending the night in the fridge.
 Norma, I think if you play your cards right, you are on your way to discovering the next "Big Thing"!

Steve,

Thanks for reporting back on how the reheated slice was.   ;D  Good to hear the overnight fridge didn't hurt the slice. 

Hopefully anyone that wants to try the Bagel pizza, will be able to have the same results.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2010, 07:42:47 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth below a baker's percent version of the Fairmont bagel pizza dough you used. It took me a while to put the dough formulation together because of its complexity and because I had to do everything using pencil and paper and a calculator. None of the dough calculation tools could be used. I'd like you to doublecheck the ingredient quantities to be sure I got them right.

Total Formula
100% Flour Blend, 373g (163g KABF + 10g KABF bench flour + 100g durum flour + 70g KABF from milk kefir poolish preferment)
27.7% Water, 95g
1.34% Olive Oil (Filippo Berio for Sauteing/Grilling), 4.595g, a bit over 1 t.
2.41%, Wildflower Honey, 8.27g, a bit less than 1 1/4 t.
1.34% King Arthur Diastatic Malt Powder, 4.59g, a bit more than 2 1/4 t.
25.66%, Eggs, two medium, 88g
1.17% Morton's Kosher Salt, 4g, a bit less than 7/8 t.
20.41%, Milk Kefir, 70g
Total dough batch weight = 617.46
Total percents = 180.03%
Note: Above does not take into account bench flour used at time of making final dough skin

Milk Kefir Poolish Preferment
Milk kefir, 70g
Milk kefir poolish KABF flour, 70 g
Total weight = 140g

Final Mix
Remaining Flour Blend, 273g (163g KABF + 10g KABF bench flour + 100g durum flour)
Water, 95g
Wildflower Honey, 8.27g, a bit less than 1 1/4 t.
King Arthur Diastatic Malt Powder, 4.59g, a bit more than 2 1/4 t.
Eggs, two medium, 88g
Morton's Kosher Salt, 4g, a bit less than 7/8 t.
Milk Kefir Poolish Preferment, 140g

If one accounts for the water component of the eggs (75.9% water), the honey (17% water) and the kefir milk (estimated 85% water), the "effective" hydration goes from 27.7% to 59.33%. That is clearly pizza dough territory. If one prefers to work with ounces rather than grams, the grams numbers should be divided by 28.35. Also, if one wishes to use a different dough batch size, the new dough batch size should be divided by 1.8 (180.03/100 = 1.8) to get the weight of the new total flour blend, and then use the rest of the baker's percents relative to the weight of that new flour blend to get the weights of the rest of the ingredients. Then the flour blend will have to be apportioned between the KABF and the durum flour in the same way as noted in the Total Formula. This is a messy but straightforward exercise.

Peter

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2010, 10:45:09 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth below a baker's percent version of the Fairmont bagel pizza dough you used. It took me a while to put the dough formulation together because of its complexity and because I had to do everything using pencil and paper and a calculator. None of the dough calculation tools could be used. I'd like you to doublecheck the ingredient quantities to be sure I got them right.

Total Formula
100% Flour Blend, 373g (163g KABF + 10g KABF bench flour + 100g durum flour + 70g KABF from milk kefir poolish preferment)
27.7% Water, 95g
1.34% Olive Oil (Filippo Berio for Sauteing/Grilling), 4.595g, a bit over 1 t.
2.41%, Wildflower Honey, 8.27g, a bit less than 1 1/4 t.
1.34% King Arthur Diastatic Malt Powder, 4.59g, a bit more than 2 1/4 t.
25.66%, Eggs, two medium, 88g
1.17% Morton's Kosher Salt, 4g, a bit less than 7/8 t.
20.41%, Milk Kefir, 70g
Total dough batch weight = 617.46
Total percents = 180.03%
Note: Above does not take into account bench flour used at time of making final dough skin

Milk Kefir Poolish Preferment
Milk kefir, 70g
Milk kefir poolish KABF flour, 70 g
Total weight = 140g

Final Mix
Remaining Flour Blend, 273g (163g KABF + 10g KABF bench flour + 100g durum flour)
Water, 95g
Wildflower Honey, 8.27g, a bit less than 1 1/4 t.
King Arthur Diastatic Malt Powder, 4.59g, a bit more than 2 1/4 t.
Eggs, two medium, 88g
Morton's Kosher Salt, 4g, a bit less than 7/8 t.
Milk Kefir Poolish Preferment, 140g

If one accounts for the water component of the eggs (75.9% water), the honey (17% water) and the kefir milk (estimated 85% water), the "effective" hydration goes from 27.7% to 59.33%. That is clearly pizza dough territory. If one prefers to work with ounces rather than grams, the grams numbers should be divided by 28.35. Also, if one wishes to use a different dough batch size, the new dough batch size should be divided by 1.8 (180.03/100 = 1.8) to get the weight of the new total flour blend, and then use the rest of the baker's percents relative to the weight of that new flour blend to get the weights of the rest of the ingredients. Then the flour blend will have to be apportioned between the KABF and the durum flour in the same way as noted in the Total Formula. This is a messy but straightforward exercise.

Peter


Peter,

I did double-check the ingredient quantities and you got them right.  I can only wish I could figure all that out with paper, pencil and a calculator.  Your way of figuring out the formula is very complex.

Thank you for setting-forth a formula in a bakerís percent version.  What makes me wonder about this formula is when I bought two kinds of medium eggs for Thanksgiving, and had used the brown eggs instead of the white eggs, is the brown eggs look bigger than the white eggs, even if they are both called medium eggs.  I took a picture of my scale weighing a brown egg and a white egg.  They both weigh different.  Since I used the brown eggs in the ingredients I used doesnít that mess-up the formula you set forth in far as hydration?  I donít understand how it can be calculated how much water there is in eggs.  I never even thought about it before.  When I mixed the ingredients the dough did feel sticky, as I posted before.  After reballing different times, with the 10 grams of added flour, the dough became less sticky.  To me 59.33% hydration doesnít sound like the dough should be sticky at first. 

When I try another attempt on Saturday with the formula you set-forth, I will also note how sticky the dough feels to me and if any additional or less flour is needed to reball.  Then I will be able to report back if any changes I noted. 

Thanks for your time in figuring out bakerís percents for what I used.

Picture of scales weighing both brown and white medium eggs.  Brown egg medium weighs 60 grams and white egg medium weighs 51 grams.

Norma
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 10:48:08 PM by norma427 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2010, 10:11:38 AM »
Norma,

I use mostly large supermarket eggs but, I, too, have sometimes sensed that their size does not appear to be the same with every carton. However, I am sure that the rules and regulations of the FDA specify the grading ranges that egg producers must comply with. As I understand it, there shouldn't be a difference from a grading standpoint whether the eggs have white shells or dark shells.

One of my favorite sites for analyzing food products is the SelfNutritionData website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/. That is where I got the data to be able to determine the water content of the eggs and honey. For example, you can see the data for a medium whole raw egg at http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/111/2 (you will have to select the medium egg from the pulldown menu). In your case you could weigh the unshelled eggs next time but because eggs have weight variations it is perhaps best for dough formulation purposes to stick with the default values at SelfNutritionData data, even if that means having to tweak the amount of flour to overcome the stickiness of the dough. With eggs, it isn't strictly the water content that can lead to a sticky dough. There is also the the textural and tactile effects of the yolk, albumen, lecithin and fat.   

A few years ago, I researched the water content of many different ingredients, including a couple egg products. I reported my findings at Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5025.msg42589.html#msg42589 and also in the following Reply 10. Knowing the water content of any food item becomes important when devising new dough formulations, or in modifying an existing dough formulation as you did, since it will be necessary to select a hydration value that takes into account the water content of other ingredients in the same formulation that contain water. You addressed this matter intuitively by adding more bench flour to achieve the desired final dough condition. That is perhaps how you ended up with an effective hydration of around 59%, although it might have been a bit different in your case because of the actual weight of your eggs.

Peter

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2010, 11:08:13 AM »
Peter,

I also understand there shouldnít be any difference in grading whether the eggs have white shells or dark shells.  As I understand, coloring doesnít have anything to do with how eggs taste or how they perform.  I had looked on the web awhile ago, to see how long eggs should last while in the refrigerator, just for my own curiosity.  I then saw the eggs can lose some moisture content, the longer they sit.  Since we have many farms in our area that produce fresh eggs, I donít think that would be a problem in our area.  Even at market they have many varieties of eggs, some even organic, and many were the chickens are not penned.  I even think what the hens are fed makes a difference in the eggs.  I havenít studied that, but would think it would be true. 

Thanks for referencing the SelfNutritionData website.  That is an interesting site. 

I never thought about the textural and tactile effects of the yolk, albumen, lecithin and fat in a pizza dough.

I used part durum flour in the bagel dough recipe.  I really donít understand the differences in different durum flours, but the durum flour was bought from Bob1 awhile ago, when I went to Warrenís bread baking class at Fredís.  I donít know where Bob1 purchased the durum flour, but it is very fine. The bag of flour doesn't have a name on it. I did also sift both flours, along with the malt powder.  That also could have made the hydration seem higher. 

I still donít know what the milk kefir poolish did to this dough either, but would think the added milk did contribute something to the final pizza.  If I am successful over time in replicating this pizza, I might then try the Ischia starter to see what happens.

I can understand that any ingredients, (with water content) added to pizza dough do need to be taken into consideration.

Norma
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 11:12:33 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2010, 12:46:10 PM »
Norma,

One of the things that surprised me after I converted your recipe to baker's percent format was the amount of eggs you used, almost 25% of the total flour weight. By contrast, Marc's Montreal bagel dough recipe calls for 2.5%, or about a tenth of what you used. So, your recipe was quite a dramatic departure.

Peter

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2010, 02:00:00 PM »
Norma,

One of the things that surprised me after I converted your recipe to baker's percent format was the amount of eggs you used, almost 25% of the total flour weight. By contrast, Marc's Montreal bagel dough recipe calls for 2.5%, or about a tenth of what you used. So, your recipe was quite a dramatic departure.

Peter

Peter,

I also looked at the percent for the eggs, when you set-forth the formula.  I was shocked at the percentage of eggs.  When I made Marcís Fairmont Bagels, I had tried to cut the ingredients by 1/4 to see if I was successful in making the bagels.  I forgot to cut the eggs, and only thought about it after I had added them.  The bagels did turnout good with the added eggs.  That is I why I also included two eggs in the bagel pizza dough recipe.  I had my share of luck so far, in making mistakes in different things I did, when experimenting. 

Even when I made a deep-dish pizza with durum flour (because I didnít have any semolina), the deep-dish pizza did turn out good. That is one reason I used durum flour in the bagels and pizza.  I better cross my fingers on the bagel pizza.  My luck might be running out.   :-D

I looked on the web about different durum flours and although I really donít understand them, as I posted before, I think the kind of durum flour I purchased from Bob1 was extra-fancy durum.  It isnít grindy at all.  It is almost like a Caputo flour, but a little more yellow in color.  I think if the durum flour is extra fancy, then the durum flour also helped this bagel pizza.  I have read that some durum flours are the highest there is in protein.  Maybe I also should thank Bob1 for bringing me the durum flour to try. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2010, 02:22:31 PM »
If anyone is interested, these are two pictures I took of the durum flour I have to make the bagel dough pizza.  The durum flour is on the right and on the left in both pictures is the blue bag Caputo ď00" flour.  I used two settings on my camera to show the slight difference in color of these two flours and also to show the texture of the durum flour compared to the Caputo flour.  The texture of both flours are about the same, in my opinion.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2010, 03:54:48 PM »
Another dough ball was made today for the next attempt at a Milk Kefir Fairmont Bagel Pizza, with the formula Peter set-forth.  I did weigh the eggs after they were cracked and put into a dish.  These two medium brown eggs weighed 99 grams.  I donít know what happened to this dough today, but I didnít need to add the extra 10 grams of flour, when reballing.  The dough ball felt okay.  The final dough temperature was 77.3 F.

The one picture is how big the keifr grains are getting.  They are growing very fast.  The ones in the picture are only some of the kefir grains.

I donít know about this milk kefir to leaven a dough, but since it seems to ferment so slowly, I could see the possibility of making dough on market Wednesday or Thursday and letting it cold ferment until Tuesday.

Pictures below

Norma
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Re: Fairmont Bagel Pizza, Thanks to Marc
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2010, 10:07:26 PM »
I made another Fairmont Bagel with milk kefir poolish pizza today.  The pizza that was made today wasnít like last week.  As I posted before this dough felt much less sticky, and I didnít need to add any more flour when reballing.  I was going to add more water when I mixed the formula that Peter set-forth, but had wanted to try the formula just as it was stated to see what would happen.  I did post before the exact ingredients I used, so Peter could figure out a formula.

The pizza was made today with the Fairmont Bagel dough.  I am now wondering what happened with this dough this week.  The pizza did turn out okay, but didnít have the flavor in the crust or look in the crumb as last weeks pizza. 

The dough felt much drier when opening the skin and when baking this pizza bubbles formed in the middle of the pizza.  The pizza did have good oven spring.

I am going to have to think about what happened to the Fairmont Bagel Pizza today.  Next week I might try adding more water to the formula to see what happens.

Pictures below

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!