Author Topic: Can great bread lead to great pizza?  (Read 3444 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2010, 02:53:01 PM »
Chau,

Are you limiting you discussion to making the dough by hand? And are you also limiting your discussion to artisan types of doughs?

Peter

Peter, no and not necessarily.  I only wanted to share some personal thoughts about dough.  The thread is open to all and anyone who has anything remotely related to the topic at hand.

Also I forgot to say, thank you for your earlier post.

Chau


Pizza01

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2010, 03:05:08 PM »
this amazing thread and your spectacular bread and my wife  ;D who told me three month ago and all the way to make bread using the same dough i made for pizza.
has giving me the muze and i made bread also
it just came out from the oven so i havent cuted yet.
500 gr bread flour
68%water
1tbs sugar
1 full tsp salt
2 tsp olive oil
2 tsp idy
i leted the dough rise for 2 and half hour every 40 minute i drop it and knead very good. 20 minute before i puted in the oven i kneaded it.
i puted into preheated oven ( just like my pizza 80 minute on the max 270 cel degrees)
below the stone i puted 10 icecubes for the steam. a trick i have learned from famous israeli chef who has chain of bakery here in israel.
and i dident open the oven until it seem to be ready.
i plan to cut the bread in our new years ev, photos will be post later on
happy new years everybody
you can see the water bubling under the stone with the steam.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2010, 03:37:00 PM »
Chau,

The reason I posed the questions is because I would have a hard time using my basic KitchenAid stand mixer with a C-hook to emulate hand kneading and artisan bread making techniques, other than incorporating autolyse and similar rest periods and possibly preferments/starters. Also, with my stand mixer, unless I use a short knead and rely more on biochemical gluten development, I would likely end up with a more fully developed gluten network and a tighter crumb with smaller, tightly packed alveoles. I would perhaps have to go with hand kneading and using techniques such as you described to be able to transfer the principles of bread making to pizza dough making. Or maybe I would have to get a much better stand mixer, or combine machine mixing and kneading with hand kneading and related techniques.

Thinking back, on a commercial level the only pizza operators that I can recall offhand in the U.S. that used bread making techniques to make pizza dough were Brian Spangler, a former bread baker and now the owner of Apizza Scholls, Anthony Mangieri, who also got his start in bread making, Chris Bianco, with his hand kneading and using a preferment of some sort, and Tom Douglas with his poolish-based dough at Serious Pie. Eventually, Brian Spangler went from hand kneading his dough to a commercial mixer, so it is possible that his pizza dough changed from what he made when he kneaded the dough by hand (including multiple folds). Of the foregoing individuals, I think that Chris Bianco is the only one who continues to knead his dough by hand.

Of course, Peter Reinhart, who started out on the bread making side, transferred some of the principles of bread making to pizza dough making, as is reflected in his pizza book American Pie. However, even he may be revising his thinking on long knead times, as John (fazzari) noted recently at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12641.msg121685/topicseen.html#msg121685. Of course, that has always been the method promoted by Tom Lehmann for commercial pizza operators.

Peter

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2010, 05:33:03 PM »
Chau,

I can understand now why you started this thread.  I believe if you also have a good understanding of how to make different breads, it also leads to better pizzamaking skills.  If you read any of Professor Raymond Calvelís or Didier Rosadaís writings, they always say "To grow and excel, bakers must not only learn 'what' to do, but understand the 'hows' and 'whys' of what they're doing." and they were bread makers.

I donít know how many of any forum members pizza formulas will stand the time.  There are so many types of pizzas, just like bread.  It is all in the learning process.

Norma

Norma - I've forgotten to thank you for your input earlier in the thread as well.   The holidays has really had my mind in many different directions.   I absolutely agree with your statement about expanding one's knowledge about different types of bread doughs and would add different types of pizza dough.  I find all types of dough really fascinating and complicated.   

In all honesty I don't wish any recipe to stand the test of time as I only believe in them to serve as guides.  I wish other newcomers with the spirit to experiment such as yourself, Peter, and others here to come along and continue to elevate the art of dough.   I would love to see others dream big and push the bounds of pizza making to new heights.   For what good is a good pizza if it can't be shared. 

I have a funny and neat story to tell.  My brother lives in Florida at the moment and comes by to visit periodically.  He knows I have been on a pizza quest for the last year.  Everytime he comes home, I make him pizza and he enjoys it each time.  But each time, I am the one disappointed b/c under pressure to perform am unable to make an outstanding pizza for him.  Outstanding to my standards.  The special pizzas only seem to crop up once he's gone and I'm left sending him pictures and the description of how great they are.   Well this past week when he was here, I made those 2 pies pictured in this thread for him.  I was so pleased, I said there that's it....that's the best I can do!  I was finally able to serve him something I deemed worthy of praise.   Of course I was just glad to be able to share those pies with him.

Cheers,
Chau
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 05:37:09 PM by Jackie Tran »

Online norma427

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2010, 06:31:06 PM »
Norma - I've forgotten to thank you for your input earlier in the thread as well.   The holidays has really had my mind in many different directions.   I absolutely agree with your statement about expanding one's knowledge about different types of bread doughs and would add different types of pizza dough.  I find all types of dough really fascinating and complicated.   

In all honesty I don't wish any recipe to stand the test of time as I only believe in them to serve as guides.  I wish other newcomers with the spirit to experiment such as yourself, Peter, and others here to come along and continue to elevate the art of dough.   I would love to see others dream big and push the bounds of pizza making to new heights.   For what good is a good pizza if it can't be shared. 

I have a funny and neat story to tell.  My brother lives in Florida at the moment and comes by to visit periodically.  He knows I have been on a pizza quest for the last year.  Everytime he comes home, I make him pizza and he enjoys it each time.  But each time, I am the one disappointed b/c under pressure to perform am unable to make an outstanding pizza for him.  Outstanding to my standards.  The special pizzas only seem to crop up once he's gone and I'm left sending him pictures and the description of how great they are.   Well this past week when he was here, I made those 2 pies pictured in this thread for him.  I was so pleased, I said there that's it....that's the best I can do!  I was finally able to serve him something I deemed worthy of praise.   Of course I was just glad to be able to share those pies with him.

Cheers,
Chau

Chau,

I also find any kind of dough fascinating and complicated.  Until someone really understands what their dough will do in any situation, (oven temperature, kind of oven, baking stones, proofing, yeast, flour, hydration and all the other variables), it takes me awhile to really understand even one dough, until I do the about the same tests over and over.

You are right about there being an art in dough.  You have taken dough to new heights and have helped me and many others along the way.  I also agree what good is pizza if it canít be shared.

I am glad you were able to serve your brother pizza you deemed worthy of praise and share it with him.  That was a nice story.  :)

Norma

Pizza01

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2010, 11:26:00 PM »
well...
this hasent worked out, the bread was a failer, i brought it to my wifes grandmother and when she held it in her hands she told me that the bread isnt baked from the inside, she cuted in the middle and i saw with my eyes. i should have noticed but i dident, it was too heavy. by its weight i should have know.
so please tell me what was my problem?
she told me i that the oven was too hot and that i should preheated the oven to 180 cl degrees and after the bread rise in the oven to higheir the temtemperatur.
next time i will use fresh yeast, also with the pizza making.
please could anyone tell me what is "starter" i tryed to find it the pizza glossary under the value and also under PREFERMENT but i couldent understand, is it the process? or is it an ingredient? excuse me for the ignorance, but i want to learn. 
here are the photos you can see that the inside is unbaked dough
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 11:44:07 PM by msheetrit »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2010, 11:46:08 PM »
Lower temp and bake longer.  I usually bake for 20m covered and then another 20m uncovered.  450f covered and 425 uncovered.  But Im also at high altitudes so if you are at sea level lower your temp a bit.

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2011, 08:23:21 AM »
yes i am at sea level. with what you covered it? how you make it wont stick ?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2011, 09:27:36 AM »
yes i am at sea level. with what you covered it? how you make it wont stick ?

I also forgot to mention that depending on the size of the loaf/boule I might bake from 30m to sometimes 50m.  It just depends on the size and the hydration.  As with pizza crust, you don't want a bread that is too moist or too dry. You have to balance the right amount of moisture with the right amount of bake time.  It's like timing the baking of the crust with the baking of the cheese.  You don't want cheese that is undercooked or overcooked. 

As far as covering the bread, you can do so by several means.  You can use a cast iron combo cooker, some sort of clay baker like a romertopf or cloche, a metal mixing bowl, or the pot of a dutch oven, or any moderately tall pot that can rest flat on it's rim edge.

Lodge Combo Cooker
http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-LCC3-Logic-Pre-Seasoned-Cooker/dp/B0009JKG9M/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Reply #71
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12140.60.html

Reply #49 is a beautiful loaf by member dellavechia
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12140.40.html

Romertopf Clay baker - reply #18
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12140.0.html

Clay baker by member Wheelman reply #391
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12042.380.html

Stone combo set.  reply #439
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12042.420.html

Metal mixing bowl  reply #251 (Cheap and works very well)
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12042.240.html
I also use something heavy like a rock or small tile to weigh the lid down to prevent steam from escaping.

The idea behind covering the bread during the initial part of the bake is to trap steam that is given off by the moist dough itself.  This moist environment allows the loaf to properly rise.  You can cover for anywhere from 10-20m.  I like to do around 15m.  You can do this initial part of the bake at higher temps if you'd like but should lower your temp after it's uncovered to allow enough baking time as to bake off the moisture to avoid an overly wet crumb. 

Good luck,
Chau


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2011, 09:51:00 AM »
Chau,

The reason I posed the questions is because I would have a hard time using my basic KitchenAid stand mixer with a C-hook to emulate hand kneading and artisan bread making techniques, other than incorporating autolyse and similar rest periods and possibly preferments/starters. Also, with my stand mixer, unless I use a short knead and rely more on biochemical gluten development, I would likely end up with a more fully developed gluten network and a tighter crumb with smaller, tightly packed alveoles. I would perhaps have to go with hand kneading and using techniques such as you described to be able to transfer the principles of bread making to pizza dough making. Or maybe I would have to get a much better stand mixer, or combine machine mixing and kneading with hand kneading and related techniques.

Thinking back, on a commercial level the only pizza operators that I can recall offhand in the U.S. that used bread making techniques to make pizza dough were Brian Spangler, a former bread baker and now the owner of Apizza Scholls, Anthony Mangieri, who also got his start in bread making, Chris Bianco, with his hand kneading and using a preferment of some sort, and Tom Douglas with his poolish-based dough at Serious Pie. Eventually, Brian Spangler went from hand kneading his dough to a commercial mixer, so it is possible that his pizza dough changed from what he made when he kneaded the dough by hand (including multiple folds). Of the foregoing individuals, I think that Chris Bianco is the only one who continues to knead his dough by hand.

Of course, Peter Reinhart, who started out on the bread making side, transferred some of the principles of bread making to pizza dough making, as is reflected in his pizza book American Pie. However, even he may be revising his thinking on long knead times, as John (fazzari) noted recently at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12641.msg121685/topicseen.html#msg121685. Of course, that has always been the method promoted by Tom Lehmann for commercial pizza operators.

Peter

Peter, one of the things I'm currently experimenting with is to make a great bread with a great crumb structure using mostly a straight mixing regimen using a mixer, very little or no folds for gluten strengthening other than the typical folds used in preshaping or shaping.  The idea is to replace Chad's hand turns with straight mixing.  The hypothesis is that gluten development is not dependant on any particular or special techniques and can be achieved in many ways.   If this is true which I believe it is, then I agree that if you simply just shorten (or vary) your mixing times (based on the protein content and HR), you can achieve the crumb structure you wish. 

Well it's simple in theory but more difficult to achieve than that.  You'd really have to balance out your hydration ratio, with proper gluten development (achieved many ways), fermentation, and baking protocol.  But yes, basically we can make a mulitude of crumb structures and textures by varying these elements. 

As far as hand kneading dough...I may have given the idea that I strictly hand knead which isn't true.   I like to hand knead HG flour doughs b/c it takes minimal effort and produces good results.  i can also hand knead high hydration lower protein doughs as well but it can be much more time consuming, so my preference here is to use a mixer.  I tend to underknead and underdevelop the gluten during the initial mix and then develop it further with folds after a moderately lengthy bulk rise (1/2 of total fermenation time).  But I believe that, gluten can be fully developed using a straight mixing protocol, dough minimally balled imediately without a bulk rise, and still achieve a nearly identical crumb compare to the above technique.   This technique is a bit harder to do.  The user would have to adjusts his mindset/perspective for it.  Perhaps down the road sometime, when I'm really skillful I can show 2 nearly identical crumbs made with these vastly different techniques.   

So far I have been able to make very similar crumbs using different types of flours.  This finding somewhat confirms and verifies the idea that gluten development is non dependant on any specific methods or techniques or flours.  If a similar looking crumb with similar texture can be achieved using different protein flours by adjusting water %, kneading times, and baking times then we should also be able to achieve the same result by simply varying the dough process but keep the same flour.  It is simply gluten development secondary to agitation of the dough.  It doesn't matter how we agitate it, whether we use a screw driver (as member villa roma has posted before) or if we use a $1500 spiral mixer, or a $10 bread machine from the thrift store.  If we understand what we are doing and can balance the variables mentioned above, we should be able to produce the same end product. 

I would love to know what members think about this crazy idea.   Or is it really that crazy or impossible? 

Chau
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 11:44:19 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline StrayBullet

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2011, 11:22:40 AM »
please could anyone tell me what is "starter" i tryed to find it the pizza glossary under the value and also under PREFERMENT but i couldent understand, is it the process? or is it an ingredient? excuse me for the ignorance, but i want to learn. 

You also asked how to keep the dough from sticking to the cooking medium; the dough is dusted with rice flour prior to flipping into the cooker, the flour side acting as a barrier between the dough and metal surface.

A "Starter" is a mixture of flour and water that has been allowed the capture wild/naturally occurring yeast.  Once this water/flour mixture shows activity, indicating "yeast" is present, the mix/culture is diluted or fed with a fresh mix of new water and flour to create the starter.  This stable starter is then used as a leavening agent in place of or in combination with IDY, ADY, etc.

Hope this helps :)

Pizza01

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2011, 11:52:19 AM »
starter is the mix of water and flour ?

Pizza01

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2011, 12:07:31 PM »
Quote from: Jackie Tran link=
Metal mixing bowl  reply #251 (Cheap and works very well)
[url=http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12042.240.html
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12042.240.html[/url]
I also use something heavy like a rock or small tile to weigh the lid down to prevent steam from escaping.


i think ill use this first (before telling my wife i need to buy more pizza stuff )
one more thing
when you let the dough rize after several hours i am sure it over rizing... do you knead it and reshape it and then put it in the oven ? or are you wait ?
what are you doing ?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 12:09:34 PM by msheetrit »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #63 on: January 01, 2011, 12:19:59 PM »
Micheal, if you do a search for "starters" here on the forum or on the internet you will get a good idea of what a starter is and how to use one for bread or pizza making.  I don't know your experience or background but if you are just starting out, I would recommend just sticking to commercial yeast until you are fairly comfortable with the whole process of dough making and the results.   It's just not necessary to add more variables or complications at when starting out.  Not that starters are that complicated but it's another headache you may not wish to deal with right now. 

As far as bread making, you can also search youtube for lots of videos on "preshaping" and "shaping" of the dough.   There are many ways to make bread dough but generally the dough is left to bulk rise.  After this initial phase, the dough is taken out of the container, dusted with a little bit of flour, and several folds are done to get the dough into a ball shape (this is preshaping).  It is allowed to rest another 30-40m, where it is then dusted, flipped over and now shaped by doing a series of folds like folding a sqaure envelop.   Top to bottom, left to right, right to left, and bottom to top or in an inorder.   The dough is now left to proof up in a proofing basket.   

After the dough has done it's final proofing, it should be handled as gently as possible to not degass it.  It should be minimally molested at this point.   It can proof seam side down or seam side up.  It is then loaded onto a hot stone or into a hot clay or cast iron cooker and covered.  Make sure the cover is tall enough for the bread to rise and expand. 

I, along with countless others here would highly recommend buying Chad Robertson's Tartine Bread book.   It is WELL worth the money and can teach you a lot about starters, and how to make great bread.   It really teaches you the foundation necessary for bread making and ultimately dough making. If you search the forum for "tartine" there are several threads started that reviews the book and the breads you can make from it.  Many of our members including myself have had very positive results after just one or 2 tries.   

Good luck,
Chau

Pizza01

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #64 on: January 01, 2011, 12:29:32 PM »
thank you very much chau  :)
you have been very helpfull.
it is too late i already bought 30 minute ago fresh yeast. i have to try yo know, its me its the bug.
but i will do all that you have writhen obove. but i have to try one time making pizza using fresh yeast.
and thank you StrayBullet  you have been helpfull.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #65 on: January 01, 2011, 12:40:45 PM »
thank you very much chau  :)
you have been very helpfull.
it is too late i already bought 30 minute ago fresh yeast. i have to try yo know, its me its the bug.
but i will do all that you have writhen obove. but i have to try one time making pizza using fresh yeast.
and thank you StrayBullet  you have been helpfull.

Micheal, using fresh yeast is no problem, it is as easy to use as commercial yeast and not as complicated as starting, maintaining, and using a starter.   

Here is a thread talking about conversion factors for yeast.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11738.0.html

I would rely on the table in the first link provided by Peter, but if you are lazy like me then the conversion factors work as well.  For using any type of yeast, it is most important to learn how to watch the dough and gauge when the optimal time to use is.  This time can change drastically depending on the weather outside.

Chau

Pizza01

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2011, 06:14:08 PM »
thanks chau.
bakery used starters ? or is possible to make good bread without using starters?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 06:33:55 PM by msheetrit »


Offline chickenparm

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #67 on: January 01, 2011, 11:32:47 PM »
Michael,

Here is a Link I have that I read to learn a little bit more about starters.I am still new to this all as well,so Its just one of the many,along with the books they Told you to get,that might help you get more info.

http://www.io.com/~sjohn/sour.htm
-Bill

Pizza01

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2011, 08:24:20 AM »
thanks very much bill and chau.
chau i am learning alot from your posting. i spent lot of hours and still do learning about sourdough and starters.
bill the link you have post is very good.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2011, 10:21:51 AM »
Peter, one of the things I'm currently experimenting with is to make a great bread with a great crumb structure using mostly a straight mixing regimen using a mixer, very little or no folds for gluten strengthening other than the typical folds used in preshaping or shaping.  The idea is to replace Chad's hand turns with straight mixing.  The hypothesis is that gluten development is not dependant on any particular or special techniques and can be achieved in many ways.   If this is true which I believe it is, then I agree that if you simply just shorten (or vary) your mixing times (based on the protein content and HR), you can achieve the crumb structure you wish. 

Well it's simple in theory but more difficult to achieve than that.  You'd really have to balance out your hydration ratio, with proper gluten development (achieved many ways), fermentation, and baking protocol.  But yes, basically we can make a mulitude of crumb structures and textures by varying these elements.... 

So far I have been able to make very similar crumbs using different types of flours.  This finding somewhat confirms and verifies the idea that gluten development is non dependant on any specific methods or techniques or flours.  If a similar looking crumb with similar texture can be achieved using different protein flours by adjusting water %, kneading times, and baking times then we should also be able to achieve the same result by simply varying the dough process but keep the same flour.  It is simply gluten development secondary to agitation of the dough.  It doesn't matter how we agitate it, whether we use a screw driver (as member villa roma has posted before) or if we use a $1500 spiral mixer, or a $10 bread machine from the thrift store.  If we understand what we are doing and can balance the variables mentioned above, we should be able to produce the same end product. 

Chau

So I've been trying to make a "holier than than thou" bread.  :angel:  Something inbetween what I've been making and a ciabatta.  Something more like a real Tartine loaf.    I thought I would attack this problem by increasing the hydration and the mixing it very well in the mixer.    Though I didn't achieve my goal with this particularly bake, it was still a very good eating bread and it confirmed my theory above.

From memory, this bread was 50/50 AP/AT (All trumps) HG flour.  30% starter, 2% oil, and abit of IDY.  Effective hydration ratio is around 79%.  Mixed in the bosch on speed 1 for 6 minutes and then on speed 4 for another 6 minutes.   The dough was rather wet.   Let it bulk ferment for several hours and did 3-4 more cycles of  turns every 30 minutes or so.   

I made the loaf too long so I couldn't fit a metal mixing bowl over it to bake, so i baked it free form.  It puffed up really high.  I was hoping for big giant holes but they escape me again.  >:(  BUT I did get a very similar crumb structure to some of my other breads that are not as wet, and gluten development is done only with hand turns.   

Chau

Pizza01

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2011, 03:01:07 PM »
very nice loaf chau. how do you when its ready to go out from the oven ? 
when you say the amount of water in the dough 79%, thats just water? with out considering the starters?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 03:25:21 PM by msheetrit »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2011, 03:08:36 PM »
very nice loaf chau. how do you when its ready to go out from the oven ?

Thanks Micheal.  Some ppl go by internal temp of the bread (205F I think) and others like me go by color and time.   I normally bake for around 40m for ~600gm loaf.    But remember I bake at 5000ft elevation so I have to bake things longer.   At sea level, it may only take 30-35m for a loaf like this.   

I usually bake about 20m covered, and then lower the temp by 1 click on the dial (about 25F) to 425F and bake for another 20m or so uncovered.   If the bread is browning too quicklly then move it further away from the heat source and lower the temp a bit.   Around the 40m mark, my loaves are usually getting kind of dark in color.   

Chau

Pizza01

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2011, 03:19:17 PM »
thanks chau. today i plan to make my own starters, i know you said for start that you recomend to stick for now just with the commercial yeast, but i want to learn i want to know what it taste like. i have to learn!
so i will do that acording to that http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/53832/how_to_make_sourdough_starter_pg2.html?cat=22
but i still dont know how to use them. i searched you tube on making sourdough, starters and so...
and i havent figure it out yet, i guess i will need digital scale. or is there another way ?
it will go ok, although  i havent succeed making bread at all with yeast. but i know it will go ok becauce that i want and like it happened in pizza nothing will stop me!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 03:31:50 PM by msheetrit »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #73 on: January 07, 2011, 08:42:23 PM »
Chau,those are incredible! Even if you did not achieve the exact goal you were aiming for,its way better than 99% of the bread I can buy from my local stores here in Ky.I grew up on fantastic bread in NY state and all the pics of yours are identical in color,shape and etc.You simply keep amazing me all the time here.
 :)

-Bill

parallei

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Re: Can great bread lead to great pizza?
« Reply #74 on: January 07, 2011, 11:24:52 PM »
Pizza01,
Quote
how do you when its ready to go out from the oven ?

Like Chau, I'm at about 5200 ft (1585 m) elevation here in Denver.  My loaves take about 40 minutes, sometimes a bit longer.  Good starting places to tell if a loaf is done:

- Internal temperature of about 205 deg F (96 deg C )
- The loaf will "feel" light
- The loaf will have a hollow sound if you thump it on the bottom (like striking a small drum) with your finger tips.

Best

Paul



 

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