Author Topic: molasses in dough  (Read 3376 times)

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Offline scott r

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molasses in dough
« on: April 26, 2005, 04:00:22 AM »
A new forum member (with a hobart and a woodburning oven in his home!) just said on another thread that my favorite pizza place where I grew up "feeds the yeast molasses".  Does anyone know if there is more to this than just using molasses in the dough recipe?  I would love it if anyone around here could help me come up with, or convert a recipe (like the raquel/sophia) to try this out.  I wish this place was in NYC, and everyone knew how amazing the crust is, but you will have to take my word for it.


Online Pete-zza

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2005, 04:33:55 AM »
Scott,

As you will note from the article at this link, http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/food/reviews/underground/n_7729/, there is a place in NYC called Gonzo's that specializes in grilled pizzas and uses a bit of molasses in the dough. Molasses is a sweetener (it includes the sucrose, glucose and fructose forms of natural sugars) and can be substituted for other forms of sugar, such as normal table sugar, in a dough recipe. John Correll, at his website, at http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/04_Dough_ingredients/04_dough_ingredients.htm, also mentions molasses as a possible substitute for sugar in a dough recipe. I've never tried using molasses but I see no reason why it can't be used in a Raquel or any other dough recipe. You may have to increase the amount of molasses on a weight basis to substitute it for granular sugar, because of the water/moisture in the molasses, but that would be about it.

Peter

EDIT (2/1/2013): For an alternative Correll link, see http://web.archive.org/web/20040606220400/http://correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/04_Dough_ingredients/04_dough_ingredients.htm
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 12:08:43 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline November

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2006, 02:19:10 AM »
I just wanted to make a quick comment on molasses in dough.  I'll be posting more later (somewhere).  If you are wanting to use molasses as a sucrose substitution, assuming your sucrose comes in the granulated form, the volume-mass ratio of equivalence is sucrose:molasses; 0.9:1.0.  In other words, you'll need 1.111 tablespoons of molasses to equal the same sugar content of 1 tablespoon of granulated sucrose.  Also, 1 tablespoon (20g) of molasses contains 4.4 grams of water if anyone here is running a tight ship with moisture.  The fact is, molasses contains a lot of micronutrients that yeast need to thrive.  Calcium, magnesium, and zinc for example, are vital to healthy yeast growth.  If you're looking for thoroughbred yeast action, plus the benefits of fructose induced browning, molasses is a great ingredient.

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2006, 08:45:58 AM »
November,

Thanks for that information. I recently added molasses to my pizza ingredients list and, using information from a bottle of molasses, I calculated that one teaspoon of molasses weighs 0.317460 ounces. That was based on 9 grams per teaspoon, which is a bit higher than your number.

Honey is similar to molasses in that it is made up of roughly 20 percent water and, therefore, requires using about 20 percent more to equal the effects of granulated sucrose (table sugar). I'm sure that honey also includes useful minerals and other micronutrients. Barley malt syrup--the nondiastatic type--is very close to honey in terms of weight and, I suspect, water content. On a weight/volume basis, I treat them the same and, for all practical purposes, molasses could be included with them since the difference between a teaspoon of molasses and either honey or barley malt syrup is only about 0.06 ounces--too small to be able to distinguish when using normal measuring spoons.

Peter

Offline November

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2006, 12:03:40 PM »
Peter,

That's one freakishly heavy teaspoon of molasses.  Only high-test molasses is that dense (i.e. 8.75 g/tsp), but technically that isn't consumer molasses, as it's the form before any sugar is extracted.  Common consumer grade molasses has a density between 1.3648 and 1.6194 g/cc or 19.3 and 22.9 g/tbsp (depending on type e.g. sulphured, second or third boiling).  You can find the exact density if you know the brix of the molasses, which is commonly between 65 (diluted) and 79.5, by entering the brix on the following page:

http://www.sugartech.co.za/density/index.php

Other useful data: granulated sugar is .849 g/cc or about 12.0 g/tbsp, and raw cane sugar .961 g/cc or about 13.6 g/tbsp.

Be careful with the honey though.  Honey has almost no sucrose, so the ratio of fructose is much higher than molasses.  The fermentation rate for sucrose, fructose, and glucose are vastly different.  You don't want too much free fructose in your dough; only enough to enhance the texture.  Some relevant data:

Honey: 38% fructose, 31% glucose, 1% sucrose, 17% water, 13% other
Molasses: 29% sucrose, 13% fructose, 12% glucose, 22% water, 24% other

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2006, 03:50:14 PM »
November,

Thanks for the additional information.

I believe you are correct on the molasses. The molasses I have on hand is the Grandma's brand of unsulphered molasses. There is no volume to weight conversion given on the label, and I could not find it at the grandmasmolasses.com website. I sometimes weigh ingredients on either my regular scale or a special scale I use to weigh small amounts of ingredients but I doubt that I did that with the molasses because I know that I can't accurately measure out a teaspoon of molasses using a standard measuring teaspoon and get it all out without some of it sticking to the teaspoon. So, I must have gotten 9 grams per teaspoon on the internet somewhere.

Today while I was in the supermarket, I checked out the Brer Rabbit brands of molasses and the bottles give 7 grams per teaspoon. That would make one teaspoon weigh 0.24691 ounces, or about the same as honey and nondiastatic liquid barley malt. While I was doing my research on this matter today, I saw that 17.6% of honey is water and 28% of molasses is water. I am not a big user of either honey or molasses but when I have used honey I have adjusted the water in the dough formula I am using. For single dough ball weights the differences are usually quite small and not worth worrying about since the dough will be tweaked in most cases with more or less flour and water to get the dough to the proper condition.

I was interested in your comments about the amount of sucrose in honey versus molasses. However, my recollection from reading about yeast performance at the theartisan.net website is that the fructose is readily fermented by yeast, both initially and later, with the bulk of the fermentiscible sugars coming from amylase extraction of sugars from the starch which represents the bulk of the flour (about 70%). I have copied and pasted below for your reading pleasure an excerpt from the theartisan.net article on yeast performance:

Sugar Transformations (Rosada)

Simple sugars: The main simple sugars, glucose and fructose, represent about 0.5% of the flour. Yeast can directly assimilate them by penetration of the cell membrane. Simple sugars are transformed into alcohol and carbon dioxide by zymase, an enzyme naturally present in yeast cells. Because of this easy absorption, these sugars are the first ones used in the fermentation process. Their consumption takes place during the first 30 minutes or so at the beginning of the fermentation process.

Complex sugars: The two main types naturally present in flour, saccharose and maltose, represent approximately 1% of the flour. Because of their complex composition, these sugars will be used later on in the fermentation process. The lapse of approximately 30 minutes at the beginning of the fermentation period is necessary to achieve their enzymatic transformation into simple sugars. The enzymes involved are saccharase, which transforms saccharose into glucose and fructose, and maltase, which transforms maltose into glucose.

Very Complex sugars: The main very complex sugar is starch, which represents about 70% of the flour content. Two types of starch are found in flour: amylose and amylopectin. Amylose is degraded by the enzyme beta amylase into maltose, and in turn the maltose will be degraded into glucose by the maltase enzyme. Amylopectin is degraded by the alpha amylase enzyme into dextrin, after which the dextrin is degraded by the beta amylase into maltose. This maltose will them be degraded by the maltase into glucose.

The simple sugar, glucose, obtained during these transformations is used by the yeast to generate carbon dioxide and alcohol. During the fermentation process, most of the starches used are the ones damaged during the milling process. Because the particles are damaged, they can easily absorb water during the dough making process. This water contact triggers the enzymatic activity. A non-damaged particle of starch will only retain water at its periphery and not inside the particle itself.


Peter

Offline November

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2006, 07:30:45 PM »
Peter,

21 g/tbsp sounds a lot more reasonable, but you can't have 28% water at that density.  If your molasses is 1.4857 g/cc, then the Brix must be 73.92.  That means 73.92% of the molasses is sugar.  3.5% of the molasses is ash (which gives molasses its color) and almost 2% is minerals.  73.92 + 3.5 + 2 = 79.42 which leaves 20.58% water.  To have a molasses denser than 20 g/tbsp means less water (less than 22%) exists, since water is less dense than the whole of molasses.  I don't mean to sound overly picky, but as a scientist, quantitative data is a big part of my life.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/standards/molasses.pdf

The concern is in adapting sucrose based recipes for use with higher (free) fructose content sugars.  Your proof times will vary depending on how fast the yeast can break down the different sugars.  Although starch makes up the bulk of the sugar, it is metabolized the slowest, so the amount of flavor and CO2 yielded comes from the mono- and di- saccharides almost as much as the starch.  Yeast added to a 5% solution of sucrose will continue to ferment at a fairly fast pace for several hours at room temperature, and much longer in the refrigerator.  Sucrose outpaces fructose in yeast metabolism by about 256%.  The point is, even if the simple sugars made up only 25% of the total fermentation process, a drop of 25.9% (half glucose and half fructose instead of sucrose) means about a 6.5% drop in overall fermentation over the same time period.  That means you just added 46.8 minutes to a 12 hour proof.  The following site provides a movie demonstrating the differences.  In case it isn't obvious, saccharose is German for sucrose.

http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/nat_Fak_IV/Organische_Chemie/Didaktik/Keusch/D-fermentation_sugar-e.htm

- red.november

EDIT: Added a blurb about compensating fermentation time and adjusted the fermentation delta.
EDIT2: I just measured a tablespoon of Grandma's unsulphured molasses (it's the brand I use too) and it came out to exactly 20.1 g.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 08:50:58 PM by November »

Offline November

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2006, 08:35:12 PM »
By the way, Peter,

"I know that I can't accurately measure out a teaspoon of molasses using a standard measuring teaspoon and get it all out without some of it sticking to the teaspoon."

You can just zero out the scale with the spoon, and then measure the molasses, or you can measure the spoon then the spoon + molasses and subtract the weight of the spoon.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2006, 09:50:20 PM »
I usually use a different container to weigh small quantities of liquids because my measuring spoon has a round bottom and won't sit level on the scale. Tonight I propped it up with a pencil, zeroed everything out, and weighed a teaspoon of molasses and got 7 grams.

When you make your pizzas, do you use weights at all or do you simply use volumes?

Peter
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 09:56:07 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline November

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2006, 10:07:05 PM »
Peter,

It depends on how hungry I am.  ;D  I have to clean off my lab scale that I bring from my lab to use in my kitchen which takes a little extra time.  Generally speaking, everything I do is based initially on mass.  For convenience sake I usually create recipes that normalize to a standard set of volumetric measurements though.  So if one ingredient weighs 6 grams and equals 0.74 tsp, I try to multiply the recipe until all the values are integer in precision.  So in the case of 6 g / 0.74 tsp, I multiply everything by 1.35 to obtain an integer tsp measurement.  This usually takes some time unless I write a quick computer program to find the common multiplier for a volumetric scale.  I almost always keep two sets of numbers too.  One set is normalized for mass and the other volume.  It never hurts to have too much data.

- red.november


Offline icemncmth

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Re: molasses in dough
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2006, 01:11:20 PM »
By the way, Peter,

"I know that I can't accurately measure out a teaspoon of molasses using a standard measuring teaspoon and get it all out without some of it sticking to the teaspoon."

You can just zero out the scale with the spoon, and then measure the molasses, or you can measure the spoon then the spoon + molasses and subtract the weight of the spoon.

What I do is hit the spoon with a little olive oil...wipe most of it off..then weight spoon...then add honey..or molasses..

the honey or molasses will just fall off the spoon..then weight spoon again...

easy..


 

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