### Author Topic: Star Tavern Recipe  (Read 10818 times)

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#### hotsawce

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• Posts: 1098
##### Star Tavern Recipe
« on: January 14, 2011, 04:11:28 PM »
http://www.rvafoodie.com/?p=2814

For anyone interested converting into percents, go right ahead

#### BTB

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• Posts: 980
• Location: Tampa Bay, FL & S.W. Mich. areas
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2011, 09:13:08 AM »
Recipe looks very interesting and it would be nice if the formulation were given in weights and percents.  That way I can try out the recipe for one pizza, rather than for 6 pizzas that the recipe given there calls for.  Let's see, 1/6th of . . . . oh forget it.

#### Tscarborough

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##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2011, 10:10:45 AM »
That is a lot of semolina, 45%.  I use 20%.

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 11:54:04 AM »
BTB,

I took a stab at converting the Star Tavern dough recipe to baker's percent format, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html. By way of explanation of my assumptions, I used the King Arthur bread flour (KABF) as a proxy for the (unnamed) bread flour in the Star Tavern recipe. I also assumed that the flour is measured out using the Medium flour Measurement Method as that term is defined in the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/. I used this method since most people seem to measure out flour by the scoop method rather than the Textbook method that flour marketers suggest (as also referenced in the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator). For the water, I assumed that one cup of water weighs 8.15 ounces. That is less than the standard weight (8.345 ounces) for a cup of water, but in my experience most people do not measure out a cup of water with that weight. It is more likely to be around 8.1-8.2 ounces. Based on my calculations and analysis, the percent of semolina comes to 49.8% of the combined weight of the KABF and semolina flours. That may seem high, but several years ago I had a NY style pizza at a pizzeria in Massachusetts and the pizza maker told me that he used around 50% semolina in his flour (high-gluten) and semolina blend.

As the Star Tavern dough formulation below indicates, the total dough weight for six dough balls is 48.29 ounces/1369.16 grams. So, one dough ball weighs 8.05 ounces/228.19 grams. Using an 8-ounce or 230-gram dough ball should be close enough. According to the Star Tavern instructions, each dough ball is rolled out to about 14". At 14", the corresponding thickness factor is 8.05/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.05229. That number should be a pretty good number to use when making any desired number of dough balls. In your case, you may want to consider using your 14" PizzaTools cutter pan. You will also note that I did not use any bowl residue compensation. That means that a single dough ball may actually weigh a bit less than 8 ounces.

Without further ado, here is the final dough formulation:

 KABF/Semolina Blend* (100%):Water (55.1334%):ADY (0.67638%):Salt (1.99774%):Olive Oil (4.83203%):Sugar (0.71151%):Total (163.35106%): 838.17 g  |  29.57 oz | 1.85 lbs462.11 g  |  16.3 oz | 1.02 lbs5.67 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp16.74 g | 0.59 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp40.5 g | 1.43 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9 tsp | 3 tbsp5.96 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp1369.16 g | 48.29 oz | 3.02 lbs | TF = N/A
* The KABF/Semolina Blend comprises 14.84oz/420.66g KABF and 14.73oz/417.5g Semolina; the Semolina flour represents about 49.8% of the combined weight of the KABF and Semolina flours
Note: Dough is for six roughly 14" dough skins, with a corresponding thickness factor of 0.05229; no bowl residue compensation

If you decide to try just one or a few dough balls, you will, of course, have to do the apportionment of the KABF/Semolina Blend, just as you have been doing with your deep-dish flour/semolina blends.

If you, or any other member for that matter, decide to attempt a Star Tavern clone, you may want to make note of any adjustments that you find necessary or useful in making the clone dough. This is something that is inherent with recipes where the flour and water are recited volumetrically. Also, using a different bread flour can also require some minor adjustments.

Good luck.

Peter

#### hotsawce

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• Posts: 1098
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 02:42:39 PM »
A bit of an outlandish idea here...

So the Star Tavern pies start in a round pan, right?

I'm thinking, if one wants a party sized amount of star tavern pizza, maybe it's possible to use the dough formulation in a regular sheet pan?

So, it may be like a pseudo square pie/lahey style pie but star tavern taste?

#### buceriasdon

• Guest
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 04:22:01 PM »
There is no rule that says a pizza must be round. Many are squares or rectangles and cut into squares. Generally the toppings go all the way to the edge.
Don

A bit of an outlandish idea here...

So the Star Tavern pies start in a round pan, right?

I'm thinking, if one wants a party sized amount of star tavern pizza, maybe it's possible to use the dough formulation in a regular sheet pan?

So, it may be like a pseudo square pie/lahey style pie but star tavern taste?

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2011, 04:48:39 PM »
I found an article today at Slice, at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/01/how-to-make-star-tavern-pizza-at-home.html, that raises some questions in the article and comments section about the Star Tavern dough, including whether it includes semolina flour.

Peter

#### Tscarborough

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##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2011, 05:13:24 PM »
If it is crunchy and not crackery, I bet it does contain semolina, although the recipe seems to have a very high ratio.

#### buceriasdon

• Guest
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2011, 06:13:36 PM »
Quite so Peter, You read the whole blog and comments, it is clearly pointed out the original dough was not made in house but purchased from a local baker and contained no semolina flour. Good research Peter! Might be a fine dough recipe none the less.
Don

I found an article today at Slice, at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/01/how-to-make-star-tavern-pizza-at-home.html, that raises some questions in the article and comments section about the Star Tavern dough, including whether it includes semolina flour.

Peter

#### BTB

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##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2011, 08:20:44 AM »
. . . it is clearly pointed out the original dough was not made in house but purchased from a local baker and contained no semolina flour.

I didn't read or see that.  I probably missed it, but sometimes have problems getting the link to work.  Does this mean that 40 years ago, Star Tavern didn't make the dough themselves?  Ed- I do see in the comments that the original owner did get the dough made elsewheres.  But there's some question whether semolina is included.

The story is an interesting one by Doug Mulvihill from New Jersey and about his father and his love for a pizza that he very frequently ate at the Star Tavern during a period of 40 years or more.  And prior to his father's retirement to North Carolina, he learned from his long time pizza-owner-friend "how they did it."  And supposedly was told "everything."  I have no basis for disbelieving and will some day soon try the recipe out and judge for myself.  I do remember a passage saying that the current owner (son of the previous owner who gave Mulvihill the recipe) denied that the recipe included semolina, but the passage cast doubt about whether the current owner was being "guarded" over the recipe's secrets (just like the responses I've often got from pizzeria owners myself in the past).

I like and use semolina in pizza crust recipes myself, but have never yet went as high as 45 to 50% of the flour blend containing semolina.  I usually aim for around 20% semolina, but recently did a small deep dish with 35% semolina and it turned out great.  And I remember Tom Lehmann writing that some pizzas are made with as much as 50 to 60% semolina, but have never tried it.  In any event, it would seem to be a nice side-by-side trial here to do one small thin crust with the semolina and one without.  Very preliminarily, it would seem doubtful that one could achieve the degree of crispness attributed to a Star Tavern pizza without the semolina -- at least in a standard home oven.  Maybe some of you (John?) can try such with your special WF ovens.

--BTB
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 10:17:34 AM by BTB »

#### buceriasdon

• Guest
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2011, 11:17:47 AM »
Since I have concerns about copyright restrictions on the Slice blog I don't want to copy and paste the comment, but it is the 12th. comment down on the link Peter gave. Quite illuminating in a funny way.
Don

#### akuban

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• Location: Astoria, Queens, NYC
• Crusty, saucy, cheesy
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2011, 02:15:48 PM »
@buceriasdon: Adam Kuban from Slice here. Feel free to copy/paste comments, etc., from Slice. I don't care — as long as it's not the whole entire post. But, you know, fair use, etc.

@Pete-zza: THANK YOU for converting to percentages. Wow.
¡Hasta la pizza!

#### scott123

• Guest
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 01:27:00 AM »
Adam, while you were doing your review, did you get a chance to clock the baking time or notice the oven temp?

While the volumetric measurements, vague flour brand, imprecise water temps/rising temp/rising volume concerns me, I think this recipe's greatest obstacle is the completely open ended baking time (and nondescript stone).

Unless the home chef can match Star Tavern's baking time, there's no guarantee the results will be even close to similar.  A 5 minute pizza and a 10 minute pizza are two entirely different animals.

#### sfspanky

• Registered User
• Posts: 90
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2011, 01:40:34 AM »
Adam, while you were doing your review, did you get a chance to clock the baking time or notice the oven temp?

While the volumetric measurements, vague flour brand, imprecise water temps/rising temp/rising volume concerns me, I think this recipe's greatest obstacle is the completely open ended baking time (and nondescript stone).

Unless the home chef can match Star Tavern's baking time, there's no guarantee the results will be even close to similar.  A 5 minute pizza and a 10 minute pizza are two entirely different animals.

Agreed... It is all too vague.
Brian Spangler
Apizza Scholls

#### buceriasdon

• Guest
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2011, 12:01:12 PM »
I thought Doug explained his baking method and dough recipe for his New Jersey style bar pizza in fairly good detail. Lot more detail than most internet recipes. I would give it a try but I have no access to semolina flour.
Don

#### PizzaSean

• Registered User
• Posts: 175
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2011, 12:26:50 PM »
Awesome!  I will definitely have to try this...

Any Jersey folk know where to get semolina flour?  I've casually looked in some stores but haven't spotted it yet...

Looking forward to this!  Thank you Pete-zza for putting it into percents!!

Sean

#### Tscarborough

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• Location: Austin, TX
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2011, 12:49:36 PM »
Look for it at Middle Eastern stores.

#### pizzoid

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• Location: Cape Cod, MA
• A Hideous, Addictive, substance dependency
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2011, 02:51:42 PM »
Hodgson's Mill Pasta Flour is (I think) what a bag I found in Stop & Shop said in large print, with semolina in much smaller type. They didn't have the brand I got years ago, which I think might have been Enrico's.

Shaw's has it in plastic bags in the Middle eastern section, I don't remember the brand.

- Al

#### BTB

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• Posts: 980
• Location: Tampa Bay, FL & S.W. Mich. areas
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2011, 05:46:30 PM »
Semolina is most recognized with Italian food and I would have said look in your Italian deli.  My Italian deli, Mazarro's in St. Petersburg, FL has it.  Whole Foods carries it.  Many health food stores with various flours would have it.  Matter of fact, most grocery stores in my area carry Bob's Red Mills brand of Semolina flour.

And, of course, you can order it over the internet from Bob's Red Mill, King Arthur, or elsewhere.  And as said on King Arthur's website it's " . . Perfect for pizza and pasta..."  http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/king-arthur-semolina-flour-3-lb

--BTB
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 08:24:52 AM by BTB »

#### PizzaSean

• Registered User
• Posts: 175
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2011, 07:55:26 PM »
awesome!  thanks yalls!  i'll be looking out around town for it.  i'm sure it's everywhere and i've just overlooked it.

#### marcparrilli

• Registered User
• Posts: 1
##### general pizza making
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2011, 12:52:17 PM »
I'm relatively new to the forum (today actually), and have a small tip to add if it hasn't been adressed before. French bread is French bread (baguettes) and not pizza, but when you are obsessed with perfect crusts, the best bakeries of these loaves use ovens that inject a little steam into the baking process, hence the cracked and crunchy exterior of the loaf. The steam really helps any type of crust shape up with wonderful texture and so a couple of years back I would throw a rum jigger of water into the bottom of the oven at least twice during my baking time for one or two pizzas. I finally realized that a better controlled release of steam was by throwing in a couple of ice cubes on top of the pizza stone that I keep on the floor of my oven to distribute heat better rather than bake on top of it. I still do this twice because i only bake at about 450 or thereabouts. The ice cubes melt and steam up quickly and there is a night and day difference in the crust with steam as opposed to without.

marc

#### IEatPizzaByThePie

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##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2011, 12:50:12 AM »
BTB,

I took a stab at converting the Star Tavern dough recipe to baker's percent format, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html. By way of explanation of my assumptions, I used the King Arthur bread flour (KABF) as a proxy for the (unnamed) bread flour in the Star Tavern recipe. I also assumed that the flour is measured out using the Medium flour Measurement Method as that term is defined in the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/. I used this method since most people seem to measure out flour by the scoop method rather than the Textbook method that flour marketers suggest (as also referenced in the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator). For the water, I assumed that one cup of water weighs 8.15 ounces. That is less than the standard weight (8.345 ounces) for a cup of water, but in my experience most people do not measure out a cup of water with that weight. It is more likely to be around 8.1-8.2 ounces. Based on my calculations and analysis, the percent of semolina comes to 49.8% of the combined weight of the KABF and semolina flours. That may seem high, but several years ago I had a NY style pizza at a pizzeria in Massachusetts and the pizza maker told me that he used around 50% semolina in his flour (high-gluten) and semolina blend.

As the Star Tavern dough formulation below indicates, the total dough weight for six dough balls is 48.29 ounces/1369.16 grams. So, one dough ball weighs 8.05 ounces/228.19 grams. Using an 8-ounce or 230-gram dough ball should be close enough. According to the Star Tavern instructions, each dough ball is rolled out to about 14". At 14", the corresponding thickness factor is 8.05/(3.14159 x 7 x 7) = 0.05229. That number should be a pretty good number to use when making any desired number of dough balls. In your case, you may want to consider using your 14" PizzaTools cutter pan. You will also note that I did not use any bowl residue compensation. That means that a single dough ball may actually weigh a bit less than 8 ounces.

Without further ado, here is the final dough formulation:

 KABF/Semolina Blend* (100%):Water (55.1334%):ADY (0.67638%):Salt (1.99774%):Olive Oil (4.83203%):Sugar (0.71151%):Total (163.35106%): 838.17 g  |  29.57 oz | 1.85 lbs462.11 g  |  16.3 oz | 1.02 lbs5.67 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp16.74 g | 0.59 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3 tsp | 1 tbsp40.5 g | 1.43 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9 tsp | 3 tbsp5.96 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp1369.16 g | 48.29 oz | 3.02 lbs | TF = N/A
* The KABF/Semolina Blend comprises 14.84oz/420.66g KABF and 14.73oz/417.5g Semolina; the Semolina flour represents about 49.8% of the combined weight of the KABF and Semolina flours
Note: Dough is for six roughly 14" dough skins, with a corresponding thickness factor of 0.05229; no bowl residue compensation

If you decide to try just one or a few dough balls, you will, of course, have to do the apportionment of the KABF/Semolina Blend, just as you have been doing with your deep-dish flour/semolina blends.

If you, or any other member for that matter, decide to attempt a Star Tavern clone, you may want to make note of any adjustments that you find necessary or useful in making the clone dough. This is something that is inherent with recipes where the flour and water are recited volumetrically. Also, using a different bread flour can also require some minor adjustments.

Good luck.

Peter

What would be the preferred method of baking to replicate the restaurant's pizza? Oven temp, length of bake, position in oven, type of pan or stone, and so on?

Also, what about mixing the dough?
"I looked at the serving size: two slices. Who the hell eats two slices? I eat pizza by the pie! Two pies is a serving size!!"

#### buceriasdon

• Guest
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2011, 08:01:59 AM »
Ieatpizzabythepie This link to the method is buried in the thread that jumps from Slice to here to another blog or something like that. This is NOT Star Tavern's recipe, it is Doug's father's recipe. Anyways it gets complicated. Good luck.
http://www.rvafoodie.com/?p=2814

#### IEatPizzaByThePie

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• ohaipizza OM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM OM NOM NOM
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2011, 02:53:28 AM »
Ieatpizzabythepie This link to the method is buried in the thread that jumps from Slice to here to another blog or something like that. This is NOT Star Tavern's recipe, it is Doug's father's recipe. Anyways it gets complicated. Good luck.
http://www.rvafoodie.com/?p=2814

I see, thanks. I'll just have to do some digging!
"I looked at the serving size: two slices. Who the hell eats two slices? I eat pizza by the pie! Two pies is a serving size!!"

#### IEatPizzaByThePie

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• ohaipizza OM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM OM NOM NOM
##### Re: Star Tavern Recipe
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2011, 08:12:37 PM »
I read through the posts. A few things to note:

In the instructions on the blog, Doug says: "Put the cooking stone in the oven, and turn the oven as high as it will go."
So, I assume he is cooking at 550-600 degrees Fahrenheit, but no precise temp. is given.

Also, in the picture posted, it shows the stone positioned in the middle of the oven.

He first cooks the pizza on the "guide tray" for 3 minutes, then removes the tray and cooks directly on the stone for an undisclosed amount of time. At that temperature, I'm guessing about 6 to 7 minutes.

With such a thin crust, I would recommend a minimal amount of sauce and cheese.

About sourcing the semolina flour: there is a brand called "Bob's Red Mill", and it is the only source of semolina flour I can find in my town. It's always in the section with other specialty flours/grains. I use it for Sicilian style pizza.

I'm anxious to give this recipe a try. It does look promising. Anyone who gives it a shot should post their results, too.
"I looked at the serving size: two slices. Who the hell eats two slices? I eat pizza by the pie! Two pies is a serving size!!"