Author Topic: Opening a new place in Baltimore  (Read 12244 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2011, 09:21:52 PM »
Why couldn't he get a permit?  Their are Neapolitan ovens in SF....

I don't know, and there are lots of things other people have that you can't go out and get a permit for.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2011, 10:20:25 PM »
Craig,  I forgot to tell you.   I am 99.9% sure your Acunto oven almost ended up being the oven for the new venture in Nashua NH,  Crush Pizza.  Before it got sent here,  with drawings and everything,  the city would not put thier seal of approval on it.  -Marc

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2011, 10:30:48 PM »
I really detest bureaucracy... even when it works out in my favor...
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline chickenparm

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2011, 10:56:44 PM »
I really detest bureaucracy... even when it works out in my favor...

I can imagine...do any of you folks ever get a studied,detailed,straight,factual based answers of their rejection, in writing,if they turn down an oven you want to use?

Or do they simply vote no based on heresay?






-Bill

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2011, 11:07:17 PM »
studied, detailed, straight, factual based... not words I commonly associate with bureaucracy.

I think these sorts of decisions are generally political.

I have a friend who was just turned down for a liquor license. Dozens already in the same area. The locals simply didn't want any more issued. A few weeks ago, I visited with the owner of a winery that had to be built entirely underground because the locals didn't want to see another winery - a few years before, the same folks were clamoring for wineries to be built to help the local economy.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline chickenparm

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2011, 02:39:01 PM »
Craig,
I was kidding around a little bit when I asked about a detailed report,but yeah you are right,those are words that never go hand in hand there.

That reminds me of a joke,I wanted to share here.
 :)

I met a good fairy today that said she would grant me one wish."I want to live forever," I said.

"Sorry," said the fairy, I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"

"Fine," I said, "then I want to die after Congress gets their heads out of their asses!"

"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
 ;D
-Bill

Offline JConk007

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2011, 05:34:31 PM »
Cute!! and  true!
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Offline jamester

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2011, 09:23:55 PM »
Hey guys, wanted to introduce myself.  My name is Terry and my wife and I are working on opening a wood fired pizza place in Baltimore.  We're going for Neapolitan style with house made traditional and unique toppings...

Hey Terry, just happened across this thread and will be following with great interest!  I'm in B-more and make pizza, right now as a hobby but with the thought/dream of opening a place myself someday in my area.

I wish you the best of luck, and look forward to trying your pizza...


Offline RichPugh

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2011, 09:02:22 AM »
Hey guys, wanted to introduce myself.  My name is Terry and my wife and I are working on opening a wood fired pizza place in Baltimore.  We're going for Neapolitan style with house made traditional and unique toppings. 

Hey Terry. I own a small Pizzeria Tavern right between Fells Point and Canton on Eastern Ave. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know... just lemme use your oven now and again if you get to move fwd with it ;) Woodberry Kitchen already has their oven. If youre in their area, you should be able to slide by. I hate ordinances haha


Offline PizzaDiFiore

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2011, 12:31:28 PM »
Hey Terry. I own a small Pizzeria Tavern right between Fells Point and Canton on Eastern Ave. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know... just lemme use your oven now and again if you get to move fwd with it ;) Woodberry Kitchen already has their oven. If youre in their area, you should be able to slide by. I hate ordinances haha

Thanks Rich, been to JRads, good pizza, even better atmosphere!  I'll keep you in mind, just trying to get everything in order before we proceed.  There's no sense to me if I can't get the WFO I want.  The city and state seem to be mostly concerned with the exhaust being a nuisance to the residents.  Fortunately, there really aren't any residents!

Offline PizzaDiFiore

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2011, 12:34:14 PM »
Thanks Rich, been to JRads, good pizza, even better atmosphere!  I'll keep you in mind, just trying to get everything in order before we proceed.  There's no sense to me if I can't get the WFO I want.  The city and state seem to be mostly concerned with the exhaust being a nuisance to the residents.  Fortunately, there really aren't any residents!


Maybe that didn't come out right.  I REALLY like your pizza!

T.

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2011, 12:29:37 PM »
In Baltimore, WFO's can't be "x" amount of yards from a residence. Even though there are thousands of wood burning fireplaces.

That's not entirely true.

I spent a good amount of time dealing with this issue when constructing a business plan and considering opening a pizzeria in Baltimore.

One of the frustrating things is you may get more than one answer, depending on who you are talking to with the city.

The key issue isn't the proximity of the WFO itself to residential buildings, but the proximity of the venting exit point from residential areas (you may have meant this in your post). This is one reason why searching out a building that is taller, or at least as high as, any surrounding residential buildings would be beneficial (assuming you are opening a space in a more dense inner-city location where most buildings are connected). That way, you can increase the height of the venting out of the roof of the building and into an extension on top of the building....so, for example, the actual vent exit point where any smoke comes out could be 15 to 20 feet higher than the surrounding residential buildings.

This is where a prevailing wind study by the Maryland Department of the Environment may potentially be needed to prove that the prevailing wind is not a downdraft that would blow smoke from your high vent exit point downwards towards the residences.

Needless to say, this could require extensive venting/ductwork (length of ducting) which would obviously increase the all-in costs of installing a WFO in a space. Such a tall vent column could potentially cause issues with proper air/flow exhaust out of the oven.

There are obviously many configurations of venting and potential spaces to open a place in....some spaces maybe not needing as much legwork to get the go ahead for a WFO.

Good luck with your new pizzeria. Attention to detail with your plans and persistence in jumping through hoops will lead you to the WFO promised land, in due time. Best of luck! --K :)

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline PizzaDiFiore

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2011, 06:00:54 PM »
That's not entirely true.

I spent a good amount of time dealing with this issue when constructing a business plan and considering opening a pizzeria in Baltimore.

One of the frustrating things is you may get more than one answer, depending on who you are talking to with the city.

The key issue isn't the proximity of the WFO itself to residential buildings, but the proximity of the venting exit point from residential areas (you may have meant this in your post). This is one reason why searching out a building that is taller, or at least as high as, any surrounding residential buildings would be beneficial (assuming you are opening a space in a more dense inner-city location where most buildings are connected). That way, you can increase the height of the venting out of the roof of the building and into an extension on top of the building....so, for example, the actual vent exit point where any smoke comes out could be 15 to 20 feet higher than the surrounding residential buildings.

This is where a prevailing wind study by the Maryland Department of the Environment may potentially be needed to prove that the prevailing wind is not a downdraft that would blow smoke from your high vent exit point downwards towards the residences.

Needless to say, this could require extensive venting/ductwork (length of ducting) which would obviously increase the all-in costs of installing a WFO in a space. Such a tall vent column could potentially cause issues with proper air/flow exhaust out of the oven.

There are obviously many configurations of venting and potential spaces to open a place in....some spaces maybe not needing as much legwork to get the go ahead for a WFO.

Good luck with your new pizzeria. Attention to detail with your plans and persistence in jumping through hoops will lead you to the WFO promised land, in due time. Best of luck! --K :)




Still working on it.  Have a good plan to make this happen.  Hopefully it works out.  I'll fill everyone in when if and when I get my approval.

T.

Offline PizzaDiFiore

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2011, 03:46:44 PM »
Looks like we have the go ahead from the City and State!  It's been a difficult few weeks, back and forth, back and forth!  But I truly believe we're on our way to wood fired goodness in Baltimore!  Now, funding and design!

Offline pizzablogger

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2011, 05:59:39 PM »
Looks like we have the go ahead from the City and State!  It's been a difficult few weeks, back and forth, back and forth!  But I truly believe we're on our way to wood fired goodness in Baltimore!  Now, funding and design!

Great news T!

Glad to see you saw it through. Good for you.

Please keep us posted on your progress when you get a chance. --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline PizzaDiFiore

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2011, 07:56:03 PM »
Investor secured, location secured!  Looking for more $$ and working on designing the site.  So Stoked! 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2011, 09:21:05 PM »
How much capital does it take to open a pizza place?

Best of luck to you.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline PizzaDiFiore

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2011, 11:03:57 PM »
Depends on the space.  Does it need to be totally built out?  Does it already have a kitchen, ventilation, adequate restrooms, water, electricity, gas.  LOTS of variables.  For what I'm looking to do, it will cost about $200k-250 for the buildout.  That includes everything including exterior signage.

Offline PizzaBrewer

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2012, 09:51:11 PM »
Howdy!  Did you ever get your pizzeria open in Baltimore?  I'd love to stop in.
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Offline PizzaDiFiore

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2012, 08:25:18 PM »
Howdy!  Did you ever get your pizzeria open in Baltimore?  I'd love to stop in.


Unfortunately, no.  Ran into some complications, still working on it though.  Just taking longer than expected.  The original location I had picked was in a severe flood area, and floods a few times a year.  My investor is still in, but then we had some family issues that needed attention.  Scouting locations currently, thinking about the county now instead of Baltimore City, it's getting pretty saturated.  Do you have a place?


Terry

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #45 on: December 26, 2012, 10:41:11 PM »
Depends on the space.  Does it need to be totally built out?  Does it already have a kitchen, ventilation, adequate restrooms, water, electricity, gas.  LOTS of variables.  For what I'm looking to do, it will cost about $200k-250 for the buildout.  That includes everything including exterior signage.
Hey Terry,
I hope you're able to find a location and soon be able to open up your own pizza restaurant. If you don't mind, could you please take a moment and explain how a lease works when one is doing the type of very expensive "buildout" you were facing with the property you were formerly contemplating. Thanks alot.
Bob
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Offline PizzaDiFiore

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2012, 08:52:56 PM »
Hey Terry,
I hope you're able to find a location and soon be able to open up your own pizza restaurant. If you don't mind, could you please take a moment and explain how a lease works when one is doing the type of very expensive "buildout" you were facing with the property you were formerly contemplating. Thanks alot.
Bob


Most developers/landlords want you to be successful.  They want your business to thrive, so they can have a guaranteed income and attract additional quality lessees.  In this case, many landlords (not all) will allow you to build-out/renovate your restaurant space rent free, as long as it's an agreed to amount of time.  Many landlords will also give you the first few months rent free to help compensate for the build out and until the word starts to spread. 

The developer I was working with was awesome.  Hands down, if I didn't back away from the location, I would have definitely been open by now.  He liked me, liked my ideas and my concept.  That isn't always true. The space I liked was an old warehouse.  It needed a complete buildout.  There was no plumbing, electric, or AC.  With a 7000+ square ft space, I was looking at a potential $150k build expense.  And the developer was willing to commit to another $100k in building improvement. Unfortunately, I wasn't as ready as I thought and decided to walk away.  I hope they can find someone for the location, I'm sure someone will eventually.

Offline slybarman

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Re: Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2012, 08:24:12 AM »
Bob:

Landlords will often finance the build out (or a large portion of it) in the form of a tenant improvement allowance. The amount the landlord spends is essentially rolled into a higher rent amount over the term of the lease.

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2012, 05:00:57 PM »
Hi Terry,

your project sounds great. I am in the Baltimore area and I have heard of couple of space opportunities. You mentioned in a earlier post a warehouse that was 7K ft, are you looking for something that big or you are flexible?

Let me know,

Antoine
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Offline PizzaDiFiore

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Re: Opening a new place in Baltimore
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2013, 09:49:20 PM »
7000sqft is a bit much for our concept.  Ideally, looking for around 2500-3000.  Don't get me wrong, there are alot of locations out there.  Just looking for the right one.



T.


 

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