Author Topic: BGE Pizza  (Read 11510 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2011, 10:08:01 PM »
Aluminized steel. I did some research and it is good up to 1400*.

Edit - I checked with the manufacturer and they sent me the following. "We cannot recommend using pan in coal fired oven. The open flame would ruin the pan. The pans can safely be used at 500 degrees."

Uggh, back to the drawing board.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 08:55:01 AM by tscaife »


Offline gtsum2

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 178
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2011, 07:36:27 PM »
so were you just using the pan with the FB in it with the stone on top of it and NO placesetter at all?  Looks like a good idea.  if you can find a SS pan like you had (check your local restaurant supply store), you might be in business!  I really wish I could get my primo cooked pies up to the level of my LBE pies, but the bands just cant take it....as you noticed, it is at least an hour to get up to temps and by then, my stuff is slipping all over the place.  I DO think that the round shape and the depth of the BGE lend itself to pizza cooking better then the Pimo Oval XL (although I will take the Primo over the BGE for ribs, brisket, butts, etc for the shape of it).  I look forward to your progress..good luck!

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2011, 09:53:24 PM »
Best pies yet tonight. Setup was Platesetter legs down, 2 firebricks and the stone sat on the firebricks. This time the bottom was underdone but, very close. Dome was 650* and stone was 575*. Dough was KABF/KAAP 50/50 mix, 67% hydration, 1.75% salt, 1% oil. Hand mixed dough, 30 min autolyse, 3 stretch and folds over 1.5 hours, 30 min bench rest then balled and put in fridge.'

Couldn't get dome past 650*. May have been the additional thermal mass with firebricks. Will tweak a bit tomorrow.

gtsum2 - I decided to try and go without the platesetter. I felt that it may not have been the most efficient setup but, after tonight I am going to continue to tweak things with the platesetter in. I agree about the shape of the egg vs primo especially for ribs.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24240
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2011, 12:11:46 AM »
tscaife,

You are doing a great job with your experiments!  :)  Your pizzas look delcious.

Norma

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2011, 11:08:33 AM »
Thanks Norma!

Made dough Wed night and was hoping for a room temperature rise. Formula was KABF, 64% hydration, 5% Starter and 2.75% salt. When I got home from work last night the dough balls were more than double in size with huge air bubbles. Oops! I tried to reball them and put them back in the fridge but, they were growing like crazy. When I made the dough I used water at 78* and did a bulk rise for three hours before balling and putting in containers. Room temp was 68* so I am surprised at this. Next time less starter, colder water, longer bulk rise, etc. Still working on all of the variables. I need to make sure my thermometer is accurate as well.

I used the same set up as before (plate setter legs down, two fire bricks, stone sitting on firebricks) and tried to cook them anyway. I decided to cook them until the bottoms were done and never got there. The crust was almost black and bottom was still blonde even with a stone temp of 575* for the first and 600* for the second. I assume the fire bricks were pulling heat from the stone instead of the heat transferring to the pizzas but, I don't really know.

Pizzas were destroyed so no pics. Sorry...

Back at it Sunday and I am going back to my original setup of plate setter legs down, green feet, stone resting on green feet. Now that I have an IR Thermometer I am hoping this will produce better results.

Have a great weekend everyone!

TS
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 11:36:25 AM by tscaife »

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2011, 10:44:00 AM »
I purchased a 15" Cordierite Kiln Shelf and 5 legs that are 4"x2"x2" to try some new setups. Pic below is (from bottom to top) Plate setter legs down, 15" stone, legs (on side 2"), 14" BGE ceramic stone. I was hoping to protect the 14" stone from the direct heat that hits it when just using the plate setter. Unfortunatley I wasn't able to get my temperature above 600*. The 14" stone did stay a bit cooler (550*ish) for about 30 minutes.

I am hoping that the low temp was due to the thermal mass. Next setup will be without the plate setter. If anyone has any ideas I am willing to try anything. My goal at this point is to get a good even bake at 650*.

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3054
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2011, 11:23:19 AM »
If anyone has any ideas I am willing to try anything...

Get one of those personal mister fans and point it into the air intake near the coals.  I think the plate sitter is a good idea to keep the stone up in the dome.  Just my .02
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2011, 11:37:28 AM »
I have a raised grid and the new legs. I can get it pretty high in the dome without the plate Setter but, will continue to try many different setups.

I have a BBQ guru but, haven't tried it yet for high temp cooks. I am hoping to avoid using it for this but, will try it if there are no other options.

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3054
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2011, 12:23:30 PM »
Good.  The only reason I mentioned it was because I have tried to cook pizza twice with lump charcoal, in two different ovens and both times the temps stayed around the 650 mark.  I just felt that fan forced air could help the situation. :D  Keep us posted.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends


Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2011, 09:36:53 AM »
New setup is from bottom up - Cast iron Grate, Raised grid, 15" stone, 2" legs, 14" BGE ceramic stone. This setup worked really well. I was up to temp in 40 minutes. When I put pizzas on the dome was 650* and the stone was 525* for the first and 550* for the second. Bottoms were not as charred/cooked as I would like but, I just need to let the stone get a bit hotter. Will cook pizzas at 600*ish stone next time. I was high enough in the dome that the top of the pizzas cooked well.

This is the opposite of what I thought would be my challenge. I expected to have a hard time getting the top of the pizzas to cook as fast as the bottom.

Thanks for looking!

Offline Jet_deck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3054
  • Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2011, 09:47:50 AM »
Excellent.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24240
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2011, 10:33:31 AM »
tscaife,

Your pizzas looks really tasty.  :) It is fun to watch your experiments.  Great to hear you are getting good results.

Norma

Offline jever4321

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 319
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2011, 10:39:21 AM »
NIIIICE!!! Looks Great.
-Jay

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2011, 10:45:33 AM »
Thanks Everyone!

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2011, 04:40:45 PM »
Looks to me you've got it figured out. Very nice.
Don

Offline Vindii

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Milwaukee, WI
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2011, 12:13:34 PM »
Your set-up with 2 stones and the spacers is the same set-up I use in my Big Steel Keg which is basically the same as a large BGE.  It works great for keeping the direct heat from the bottom of the stone.  I can get my stone and hood temp to be pretty much the same.

Ive tried raising and lowering it and didnt seem to make much difference.  Now I just use the plate setter with a stone on it and 1" spacers and and another stone.  Works great.+

My opinion is that the thermo mass doesnt have any effect on the max temp of the grill.  It only effects how long you have to preheat it.  More mass is better as it helps it recover faster when you open the lid.

Temps can be effected a lot by lump.  When I want to cook more than 2 pies at temps of over 600 I make sure to use mostly fresh lump.  I found that the left over lump from your last cook will not burn as hot.  If you use all fresh lump you will be well past 800 if you want.  I let mine preheat for at least an hour to get the stone and hood the same temp.

650 is my sweet spot right now.  They cook in about 5-6 minutes.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 12:18:45 PM by Vindii »

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2011, 12:48:02 PM »
Vindii

How big is your stone that is on the bottom? Mine is 15" and I thought that may have been restricting air flow. Does air flow have any effect on max temp in your experience?

When you say 650* are you talking Dome or stone temp? (EDIT: I see you said dome and hood are same temp)

When I used the firebricks and the setup with the plate setter it was over an hour and the temp seemed to be stalled. I was also using cowboy lump which doesn't seem to burn as hot. I have also been using leftover lump.

The most recent setup worked well and the temp was easy to control. I am cooking 4 pies on Sunday vs 2 earlier this week. I will see if I can maintain the temps using the most recent setup and leftover lump and make adjustments as needed in the future.

Thanks for the info!!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 12:49:58 PM by tscaife »


Offline Vindii

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Milwaukee, WI
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2011, 04:12:29 PM »
Both my stones are 15" kiln shelves from Axner which might be the same place you got your spacers from as mine are exactly the same.  I looked back at your brick set up also and i really the set-up was not the problem but a lump issue.  Ive had the exact same problems with the temp not getting up high enough and I think its all lump.  The last time I cooks 6 pizzas I took all the old lump out (saved it for later of course) and stated with fresh lump.  Plate setter, 2 15" stones, and the spacer all preheated for an hour.  I cooked all 6 pizzas at 650m and it held temp great.  Fresh lump is key for high temp cooks.

Clean out the lmp and give it a try.  Im thinking you will agree.

Cowboy lump seems to not burn as hot too.  Ive heard that before.

I tried to make some Neapolitan type pizzas with this set-up and had issues getting the top cooked fast enough.  I was cooking at 800 though and the bottom just cooks really fast.  I think the best I could do is about a 4 minute NY/Neo hybrid pie.  Still experimenting though.  biggest problem is that you lose so much dome heat when you load the pizza that the bottom cooks faster.  Such a short window at 800+ that its hard for it to recover from opening.  I have not tried it again since I figured out the fresh lump thing so i need to try again.

Here my failed tests and some pics of the set-up

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13251.0.html

Ive now taken the first spacer off the plate setter and just put the lower stone on the plate setter.  I didnt think raising it up in the dome was helping.

Here the first attempt before I started using two stones.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13232.0.html

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2011, 04:07:54 PM »
Vindii,

I think you are correct about the lump. My normal process is to empty out the egg clean out all ash and make sure that the holes are clear. Then I put some larger pieces of lump in the bottom, dump a chimney full of hot lump, dump the leftover lump from the last cook and then use fresh lump to fill at least to the top of the firebox. I was so focused on air flow and trying to protect the stone from direct heat I wasn't thinking about the fuel source. I am now cooking 7 pies on Sunday (more people coming last minute) so I will use fresh lump and see how it goes.

I did get the kiln shelf and spacers from axner. Your threads actually gave me the idea to try the two stone setup. The top is a ceramic stone from Big Green Egg though. I have read other threads that Ceramic has different effects than coerderite on high temp cooks because the ceramic is more porous I believe. It may be worth looking into.

Also what type of materials insulate the Big Steel Keg? The thermal mass of the ceramic helps the BGE get back to temp quickly but, working with a 2 minute bake time it probably won't be fast enough.

Keep us posted if you figure anything out.

Thanks!
TS

Offline Vindii

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Milwaukee, WI
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2011, 11:18:04 PM »
Vindii,

I think you are correct about the lump. My normal process is to empty out the egg clean out all ash and make sure that the holes are clear. Then I put some larger pieces of lump in the bottom, dump a chimney full of hot lump, dump the leftover lump from the last cook and then use fresh lump to fill at least to the top of the firebox. I was so focused on air flow and trying to protect the stone from direct heat I wasn't thinking about the fuel source. I am now cooking 7 pies on Sunday (more people coming last minute) so I will use fresh lump and see how it goes.

I did get the kiln shelf and spacers from axner. Your threads actually gave me the idea to try the two stone setup. The top is a ceramic stone from Big Green Egg though. I have read other threads that Ceramic has different effects than coerderite on high temp cooks because the ceramic is more porous I believe. It may be worth looking into.

Also what type of materials insulate the Big Steel Keg? The thermal mass of the ceramic helps the BGE get back to temp quickly but, working with a 2 minute bake time it probably won't be fast enough.

Keep us posted if you figure anything out.

Thanks!
TS

The keg is double walled with oven insulation inbetween.  Holds heat like you wouldnt believe.  A egg may radiate more heat as the ceramic will hold more heat than the keg but otherwise they would be the same.  If i overshoot my temp on a low and slow cook it takes a long time to bring it down.

Let us know how you pies come out.  The last batch of 6 I did I cooked at 650 for 4-5 minute each.  Had all 6 done in 45 minutes.

Im convince that 2 stones with a little space between them is the best set-up for these types of grills.

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2011, 07:30:45 AM »
Yesterday was a disaster. I had friends coming over and planned to cook 7 pies. Lit the grill and got the dome temp up to 675* in about 30 minutes. Then the temp dropped to 625* and ten minutes later I was at 575*. I opened the grill to see what was going on and my raised grid had collapsed  :o. I was able to lever the stones back up and put a spacer underneath but, by that time the grill was open so long that I had no chance of getting back up to 650* + or even 550*. I moved the 14" stone to the oven and cooked the pies in there.

Next time I will try the plate setter, stone, spacers, stone setup with fresh lump and see how it goes.


Offline Vindii

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Milwaukee, WI
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2011, 11:08:47 PM »
Yesterday was a disaster. I had friends coming over and planned to cook 7 pies. Lit the grill and got the dome temp up to 675* in about 30 minutes. Then the temp dropped to 625* and ten minutes later I was at 575*. I opened the grill to see what was going on and my raised grid had collapsed  :o. I was able to lever the stones back up and put a spacer underneath but, by that time the grill was open so long that I had no chance of getting back up to 650* + or even 550*. I moved the 14" stone to the oven and cooked the pies in there.

Next time I will try the plate setter, stone, spacers, stone setup with fresh lump and see how it goes.



That figures when it happens when you have people over.  So you werent using the plate setter?

Another thing i learned is to use lots of lump.  Not sure how the BGE is but my keg burns a lot of lump holding 650 for hours.  The first time I made 5 pies I ran out of lump near the end and temps started to drop.

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2011, 10:33:12 AM »
New setup pic below. This setup worked really well. Cooked pizzas at 650* - 675* dome temp with a stone temp of 625* - 650*. The strange thing is that when I use a 2 stone setup these temps under cook the bottom. With one stone these temps will cook the bottom faster than the top. I am measuring temp through the top hole and I know that it drops when I open the grill to put the pizzas on.

My guess as to why this is happening is that with a one stone setup it is still getting some direct heat from the coals below. Heat transfers from the stone to the pizzas so if it is still taking direct heat it will transfer more heat and cook the bottom faster even at the same initial temp. Going forward I just need to figure out how hot to get the stone in relation to the dome to get the right balance.

The positives are the tops cooked really well. The peperoni was almost like crisp bacon. The stone also heated up much slower between pizzas. Normally I am in a huge rush to get the next pie on. This time I actually had to wait by the grill for a bit before putting the pies on. For me this is a huge plus. The pizzas tasted great as well!

Thanks for looking!!!
TS

Offline Vindii

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Milwaukee, WI
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2011, 03:34:46 PM »
Pies look good.  I love it when the peperoni gets crispy.

I think a longer preehat time will help you bottom cook faster.  Another option is to preheat longer and then once the stone is up to temp shut down the vents a bit to bring the dome temp down.  Then your stone will be slightly hotter than the dome.

My last ones were the same way.  Bottoms could have used maybe 2 more minutes but the top was done.  I rushed the preheat and tossed the pies on after running for 1/2 hours at 400 and 15 minutes at 700.  I didn't measure the stone temp but Im sure it was still in the upper 500's.

When I looked for spacer for my stones I wanted to use those BGE feet that are in your pics.  I saw a pic of them but didnt know they were the feet.  I looked all over trying to find where they sold them...

Offline tscaife

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 102
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Chicago
Re: BGE Pizza
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2011, 09:40:43 PM »
I haven't posted in a while but, I have been doing pretty much the same thing and am getting consistently good results. Setup is in first pic.

These pizzas were 63% hydration, 3% salt with 1% starter. 12 hour bulk rise and 12 hours balled at room temperature (76*). I am going to stick with this setup going forward but, still need to tweak dough, sauce, etc.

Thanks for looking!



 

pizzapan