Author Topic: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?  (Read 21966 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2011, 05:08:09 PM »
Norma,

Out of curiosity, how did the dough ball weights work out? Did the dough stick much to the insides of the machine? Also, do you think that you could have made a smaller dough batch without any problems?

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2011, 07:12:28 PM »
Peter,

The weights of the dough balls after they were divided was a little more than you had stated.  I had put the manteca into the refrigerator after I bought it because I didnít want it to go bad.  The manteca harden some while in the refrigerator, so I had to heat it so it would be dissolved.  I didnít want to put the thickened manteca into the mixer.  I didnít discard any of the dough and I guess I will open the dough into a bigger size than a 16" pizza, if you think that is a good idea.

The dough didnít stick much to the sides of the UBM.  I only had to take a tiny bit of flour off two of the sides of the mixing bowl, after the first mix.  After the manteca was mixed in there wasnít any notable bowl residue.  I had put a bowl residue of 1.5 in the expanded dough calculation tool.  That is probably why I had extra dough.

I donít know if I could have made a smaller dough batch without any problems.  The next time I made dough in the UBM, I will take a picture of how close the dough hook comes to the bottom of the mixing bowl. I donít even know what kind of dough hook the UBM has. It looks like a different kind of dough hook, to me anyway.  For the amount of dough you figured out I would need, it seemed to work well. You always seem to know how to figure everything out. I was amazed that this old bread machine worked so well in kneading the dough.  My kitchen aid mixer doesnít even do such a good job as easily.  

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2011, 07:34:49 PM »
Norma,

You gave me enough information to be able to come up with something that looked like it would work with your "back to the future" machine. When dealing with quantitative issues, playing around with numbers is unavoidable.

I did not apply a thickness factor to my estimated dough batch size since I didn't know whether your machine needed it. It now looks like your machine does an effective job of picking up all of the flour. Under the circumstances, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't take the skin size out to over 16".

I look forward to your results and assessment.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2011, 07:53:02 PM »
Norma,

You gave me enough information to be able to come up with something that looked like it would work with your "back to the future" machine. When dealing with quantitative issues, playing around with numbers is unavoidable.

I did not apply a thickness factor to my estimated dough batch size since I didn't know whether your machine needed it. It now looks like your machine does an effective job of picking up all of the flour. Under the circumstances, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't take the skin size out to over 16".

I look forward to your results and assessment.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for naming my UBM the ďback to the futureĒ machine.  I will see how these doughs work out Tuesday.  Thanks also for doing the calculations so I could make the Lehmann manteca dough in this machine.

If you or anyone else is interested, this is a picture of how the top part and dough hook look.  The dough hook can be taken off by a little lever on top of the turning handle. The part of the assembly that is hooked onto the mixing bowl, can be tightened or loosened by another lever.

Norma
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 07:54:56 PM by norma427 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2011, 10:49:57 PM »
The UBM machine and the combination of the manteca really made a good pizza.  The dough fermented differently on the bottom of this Lehmann dough ball.  I donít know why that happened.  The top of the dough ball did have a silky feel, from the manteca it was greased with.  There are two sets of pictures of the dough ball, two when I took it out of the deli case and two when the dough ball was ready to be opened, after the warm-up. The Lehmann dough ball with the manteca added was very easy to open.

When Steve and I tasted the pizza, it did have better taste than when regular olive oil is added.  While eating a slice, both of us noticed something like a slippery feeling in our mouths.  It wasnít greasy, but just different.  I liked the taste of the Lehmann dough crust with the manteca added better than when olive oil is added to the dough.  I gave my daughter a slice and she reheated it after I returned home.  She really liked this pizza, also.

I didnít use the second Lehmann dough ball with the manteca added.  It is still in my refrigerator and I donít know if I am going to use it at home or let it ferment more, then freeze it to try next week.

Thanks Peter for coming up with a formula for me to use in the UBM.

Pictures below

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2011, 10:53:03 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2011, 10:55:08 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2011, 10:57:56 PM »
end of pictures

Norma

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2011, 11:37:26 PM »
What fun Norma ;D  The pie looks great too.  Funny about the lard; one can but buckets it here in Denver at most supermarkets.  Big blue buckets....

Paul


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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2011, 11:51:01 PM »
What fun Norma ;D  The pie looks great too.  Funny about the lard; one can but buckets it here in Denver at most supermarkets.  Big blue buckets....

Paul

Paul,

It was fun making the dough in the UBM.  Thanks for saying the pie look great too.  :) I wish I could get buckets of this lard in my area.  Did you ever try it in pizza dough?  Hmmm, big blue buckets of lard, that really sounds interesting.  Do you know how they manufacture the lard in your area?

Norma

parallei

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2011, 12:51:53 AM »
Norma,

No, I've never tried lard in pizza dough.  I used to use it occasionally in crusts for savory pies and biscuits.  My wife frowns on the practice these days ::)  I'm not sure how it is manufactured, but the stuff I got was a pretty refined product and solid.  Blue bucket with, I think, white snowy mountains (purity don't you know) and white lettering.  I'll look next time I'm at the grocery store.

I think Matthew uses lard (strutto in Italian) sometimes in his Pizzarium dough.

Paul

Offline Matthew

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2011, 05:42:12 AM »


I think Matthew uses lard (strutto in Italian) sometimes in his Pizzarium dough.

Paul


I use strutto in all my doughs (except for Neapolitan) 

Matt

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2011, 07:12:03 AM »
Norma,

No, I've never tried lard in pizza dough.  I used to use it occasionally in crusts for savory pies and biscuits.  My wife frowns on the practice these days ::)  I'm not sure how it is manufactured, but the stuff I got was a pretty refined product and solid.  Blue bucket with, I think, white snowy mountains (purity don't you know) and white lettering.  I'll look next time I'm at the grocery store.

I think Matthew uses lard (strutto in Italian) sometimes in his Pizzarium dough.

Paul


Paul,

Thanks for telling me about the lard you get is pretty well refined.  Lol, yes the white mountains sound like purity and the white lettering and blue bucket also sound like purity.  :-D Thanks for saying you will look for the lard the next time you are at the grocery store.  :)

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2011, 07:14:21 AM »
I use strutto in all my doughs (except for Neapolitan) 

Matt

Matt,

What do you think is the difference from the strutto you use and the manteca I used?  Can you tell me what you think strutto adds to your doughs you use strutto for.  Do you mind telling me where you purchase the strutto?

Thanks,

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2011, 08:42:22 AM »
Norma,

From your photos, it looks like you had another successful outcome. It perhaps was a good idea that you did not use any sugar in the dough that might have obscured the flavor of your manteca. It's also possible, I suppose, that your liquid manteca just has more flavor than the sanitized versions that are sold in most stores. To know for sure, you would perhaps have to run a few side by side tests where the only difference is the form of lard.

Where I live, there is a large Hispanic community that I would guess is the primary market for the lards sold in the local supermarkets. The main brand, Armour, is sold in all sizes, including large buckets. That product looks as shown in the photo at http://www.texmex.net/Graphics/lard.gif. I used to see another brand, Mrs. Tucker's, that was a mixture of meat fats and shortening. I haven't checked recently to see if it is still being sold in the markets near me but the product looks like the photo at http://media.shopwell.com/kp/6172009948_full.jpg.

Since you liked the flavor of the crust using your liquid manteca, there is no reason why you can't use it in your preferment Lehmann dough. You can make a direct swap of the manteca for the olive oil (by weight). It might be a good way to use up the rest of your manteca. Of course, there are many other applications for the manteca.

Peter

Offline Matthew

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2011, 09:58:35 AM »
Matt,

What do you think is the difference from the strutto you use and the manteca I used?  Can you tell me what you think strutto adds to your doughs you use strutto for.  Do you mind telling me where you purchase the strutto?

Thanks,

Norma

Norma,
I imagine that it would be quite similar to strutto.  I prefer it because I think it adds a rustic quality to the finished product.  I buy it at a specialty supermarket close to me.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2011, 01:04:20 PM »
Peter,

I think it would be a good idea to see if I can find the sanitized versions to compare against the manteca I used.  Thanks for providing links to the brands of lard that are sold in stores around where you live.  I might have to go into Lancaster to one the Hispanic small stores to see if they sell the versions like you have access to. 

I would like to use the manteca all the time in the preferment Lehmann dough but the size container I bought was 5.00.  That is too expensive to put into my preferment Lehmann dough all the time.

I would like to run another test with the manteca though.  I wonder what would happen if I use it in a Reinhart dough that also has a good amount of oil added in combination with honey.  I had talked to Steve about that yesterday.  I wonder if the honey in combination with  amounts of manteca would make the crust burn too fast.  I also wonder how a higher hydration dough would do with manteca and also being mixed in the UBM.

Norma


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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2011, 01:09:02 PM »
Norma,
I imagine that it would be quite similar to strutto.  I prefer it because I think it adds a rustic quality to the finished product.  I buy it at a specialty supermarket close to me.

Matt,

Thanks for telling me you imagine that the manteca is similar to strutto.  I have only one Italian small store near me and I donít think they sell strutto, but will have to check.  It is interesting that you think strutto adds a rustic quality.  Do you think it also adds to the taste of the crust?

Norma

Offline Matthew

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2011, 01:57:55 PM »
Matt,

Do you think it also adds to the taste of the crust?

Norma

Absolutely.


Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2011, 02:36:47 PM »
Absolutely.



Thanks Matt.  You are always way far ahead of most of us pizzamakers!  ;D  You usually try other things out before the rest of us.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2011, 03:08:33 PM »
I would like to run another test with the manteca though.  I wonder what would happen if I use it in a Reinhart dough that also has a good amount of oil added in combination with honey.  I had talked to Steve about that yesterday.  I wonder if the honey in combination with  amounts of manteca would make the crust burn too fast.  I also wonder how a higher hydration dough would do with manteca and also being mixed in the UBM.

Norma,

There is nothing that says that you have to use your UBM to make a modified Reinhart dough, although I think the UBM should work with the higher hydration and the manteca so long as you make a large enough dough batch--such as the last one. Offhand, I can't see how the manteca will affect the development of the crust color. If it does, then you may need to use a pizza screen to slow things down.

Peter

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2011, 04:45:15 PM »
Norma,

There is nothing that says that you have to use your UBM to make a modified Reinhart dough, although I think the UBM should work with the higher hydration and the manteca so long as you make a large enough dough batch--such as the last one. Offhand, I can't see how the manteca will affect the development of the crust color. If it does, then you may need to use a pizza screen to slow things down.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for your advise.  I will see if I have time this coming week or the next week to try out a Reinhart dough in the UBM with manteca. 

I did reheat the slice of the Lehmann dough with manteca and it was really good today too.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2011, 07:04:19 AM »
I am going to delay the Reinhart dough experiment in my UBM machine until next week, because I still have the one Lehmann dough ball made with manteca.  The Lehmann dough ball with manteca is still cold fermenting in my refrigerator this morning.  I am going to let it there until tonight and then freeze it, to be used on Tuesday. 

The top and bottom of the dough ball look fine, with a few specks on top of the dough ball.

Pictures below

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2011, 04:36:38 PM »
Norma,

Today, while I was in a local supermarket that caters mainly to a Hispanic clientele, I saw the liquid-like manteca that I mentioned previously. The containers were see-through containers that allowed me to see what looked like a layer of dark colored oil on top of a much more substantial white lard mass. As I shook the container, I saw that the oil and the lard started to combine. There were actually two brands at the store, one from a company called Chema Food Products out of Houston, and a house brand that exhibited the same characteristics as the Chema brand. Both were under $3, with the house brand being slightly cheaper. I didn't pay attention to the quantity but I would estimate that it was perhaps 20-something ounces.

I also saw the completely solid Armour manteca (lard), from small packages to 8-pound tubs, and also the Mrs. Tucker vegetable/lard product.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Trail doughs in the Universal Bread Maker..any ideas?
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2011, 06:58:09 PM »
Norma,

Today, while I was in a local supermarket that caters mainly to a Hispanic clientele, I saw the liquid-like manteca that I mentioned previously. The containers were see-through containers that allowed me to see what looked like a layer of dark colored oil on top of a much more substantial white lard mass. As I shook the container, I saw that the oil and the lard started to combine. There were actually two brands at the store, one from a company called Chema Food Products out of Houston, and a house brand that exhibited the same characteristics as the Chema brand. Both were under $3, with the house brand being slightly cheaper. I didn't pay attention to the quantity but I would estimate that it was perhaps 20-something ounces.

I also saw the completely solid Armour manteca (lard), from small packages to 8-pound tubs, and also the Mrs. Tucker vegetable/lard product.

Peter

Peter,

I didnít get to check at the Hispanic stores in Lancaster as of today for the manteca or the other lards you have mentioned. You manteca products sounds like it is a lot cheaper than mine, at least so far.  Maybe next week if I have time, I will check in Lancaster. The manteca I purchased is 24 oz.  This is what it looks like if anyone is interested, since it has been in the refrigerator. 

Norma


 

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