Author Topic: dough keeps tearing, help!  (Read 1931 times)

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Offline franwake13

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dough keeps tearing, help!
« on: May 15, 2011, 03:30:00 PM »
hey whats up everyone, does anyone know what would cause the dough to keep tearing while streching? im lost. i have been trying to find the answer but no luck. for a 50lb bag of high gluton flower im using 10 oz of salt and 10 oz oil with 6 eggs. o and 2 oz of yeast, any help would be great! thanks alot
-frank


buceriasdon

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Re: dough keeps tearing, help!
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 03:40:52 PM »
How much water? How are you mixing and proofing? More details on your method would be helpful.
Don

Offline franwake13

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Re: dough keeps tearing, help!
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2011, 03:42:54 PM »
13 qts water and mixing 20 oz oil then at the 5 min mark add 4 more oz's. proofing over night

buceriasdon

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Re: dough keeps teariny 50 poundsg, help!
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2011, 03:46:02 PM »
Thanks! To me it appears your problem is low hydration. 13 quarts of water weighs 26 pounds divided by 50 pounds gives you a hydration ratio of 52%, even with your amount of oil, and I'm not sure which amount as you call out two, that is low for a high protein flour.  High protein flours work better at higher ratios of water to flour.
Don
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 04:08:48 PM by buceriasdon »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: dough keeps tearing, help!
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2011, 04:01:48 PM »
frank,

1. Is the oil by weight or by volume, and what kind of oil is it? Also, I note that you initially said 10 ounces of oil and then you said 20 plus 4.

2. Are the salt and yeast measurements by weight or by volume?

3. What size are the eggs?

4. What does "o and 2 oz of yeast" mean, and what kind of yeast are you using?

5. Are you using any sugar?

Peter

Offline franwake13

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Re: dough keeps tearing, help!
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 04:21:33 PM »
ok heres the whole recipe, critique if you would like lol


all by volume
13 qt water
10oz salt
10 oz sugar
6 eggs    (large)
2 oz of active dry yeast
24 oz oil, 20 at first and then 4 oz midway through

give it a releif cut, let it rest 10 mins then ball the dough.
let it proof in the walk in over night

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: dough keeps tearing, help!
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2011, 05:47:06 PM »
frank,

To be able to get a good grasp of your recipe, I took the information you provided, converted the volume measurements to weights, and used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with a baker's percent version of your recipe, as presented below. You did not indicate what kind of oil you used, so I assumed ordinary vegetable (soybean) oil. For information on the eggs, I used the data provided on large eggs at the SelfNutritionData website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/111/2. This is what I ended up with:

High-gluten Flour (100%):
Water (54.1%):
ADY (0.19999%):
Salt (1.47656%):
Oil Blend* (2.8836%):
Sugar (1.05469%):
Eggs, large (1.32275%):
Total (161.03759%):
22680 g  |  800 oz | 50 lbs
12269.88 g  |  432.8 oz | 27.05 lbs
45.36 g | 1.6 oz | 0.1 lbs | 12 tsp | 4 tbsp
334.88 g | 11.81 oz | 0.74 lbs | 20 tbsp | 1.25 cups
654 g | 23.07 oz | 1.44 lbs | 48 tbsp | 3 cups
239.2 g | 8.44 oz | 0.53 lbs | 20 tbsp | 1.25 cups
300 g | 10.58 oz | 0.66 lbs | 19.75 tbsp | 1.23 cups
36523.33 g | 1288.3 oz | 80.52 lbs | TF = N/A
*The Oil Blend is a 75/25 mix of olive oil and vegetable oil

Looking at the above formulation, two numbers jump off of the page--the low hydration value (54.1%) and the small amount of ADY (about 0.20%). I think you may need to increase the values of both numbers.

First, as to the hydration, the rated absorption of most high-gluten flours is around 63%. I would say that most pizza operators who specialize in the NY style use a hydration of around 57-60%. However, in your case, where you are using six large eggs, the actual hydration will be higher because, as the SelfNutritionData website indicates, large, fresh, raw eggs contain about 75.8% water. For six eggs, the water content is therefore about 8.02 ounces. Adding that to the formula water and recalculating the hydration value, we get (432.8 + 8.02)/800 = 55.1%. In my opinion that is still too low, and may be the reason you have experienced tears in the dough. I might mention that the roughly 2.89% oil contributes some "wetness" to the dough, but even taking that into account, I think you may still need more water. You might consider a hydration of around 58% and let the water in the eggs and the oil elevate the effective hydration of your dough. I think that change will improve the handling characteristics of your dough. To test this thesis, you might try a small dough batch. You can use the expanded dough calculating tool referenced above for a small test dough batch. You would select the desired dough batch size and enter its value in the expanded dough calculating tool. You should use the same baker's percents as noted above in the expanded dough calculating tool. You can also change the hydration value in that tool.

With respect to the yeast, unless you are shooting for a very long fermentation period of several days, I would increase its value. You might try doubling it as a start. You can use the expanded dough calculating tool to effect the change in value (the new baker's percent) of the ADY. Hopefully, the increased amount of yeast will give you more fermentation for the time period in question and better dough handling qualities.

From what I can tell, using eggs for a NY style dough is not common. However, it is not unprecedented. See, for example, the Bruno video at
Bruno's NY Style Pizza Dough
As it so happens, I converted Bruno's recipe to baker's percent format at Reply 10 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12883.msg125253.html#msg125253. In re-reviewing that recipe today, I can't help but see the similarity of your recipe to Bruno's recipe. I will leave to you to decide if you want to try Bruno's recipe or follow the suggestions I noted above. It may well be that your dough mixing and management and equipment are different than used by Bruno's.

If you proceed as suggested above, I hope that you will return to tells us what results you get.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:56:04 PM by Steve »

Offline franwake13

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Re: dough keeps tearing, help!
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 07:10:57 PM »
thanks for the reply sir, would it make a difference if i add active dry yeast instead? and the oil is a 75/25 blend of olive and veg oil

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: dough keeps tearing, help!
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2011, 08:34:30 PM »
would it make a difference if i add active dry yeast instead? and the oil is a 75/25 blend of olive and veg oil

frank,

It looks like I read past the ADY too quickly. I went back and revised the dough formulation I posted to call for ADY instead of IDY. I also noted the olive oil/vegetable oil blend. The weights of olive oil and vegetable oil per unit of volume are almost identical, so the number for the blend should be fine.

I assume that you prehydrate the ADY in water at a temperature of around 105 degrees F for about 10 minutes. You don't want to use all of the formula water at that temperature. The recommended approach is to use an amount of water that is around four or five times the weight of the ADY. The rest of the water should be on the cool side so as to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 80-85 degrees F.

Peter


 

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