Author Topic: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water  (Read 2390 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« on: June 03, 2011, 11:07:59 PM »

After reading Mattís thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14038.0.html and thinking about trying the Ischia starter at 5% of the water weight, I decided to try to make Neapolitan pies by that method and let two dough balls room temperature ferment.  I let the two dough balls room temperature ferment for 26 hours.  I knew I was going to go to Steveís (Ev) home today, and he was going to be baking some pies in his WFO, and I asked him if he minded if I brought 2 doughs balls along.  Steve said he didnít mind. 

I mixed the dough in my Kitchen Aid mixer and added the small amount of Ischia starter to the water.  I wasnít to sure about what might happened.  From the time the doughs were finished yesterday until this morning they didnít look like they rose at all, but they did flatten out.  When I arrived at Steveís home about 5:00 pm today, they still didnít look like they had risen very much, but there were some fermentation bubbles on the bottom of the dough.  I used Caputo Pizzeria flour for the one pie and Caputo ď00" Rinforzato Pizza flour for the other pie.  The first pie was with dressed regular mozzarella and the second pie was dressed with Brick Oven Fresh Mozzarella from Russoís.  The Brick Oven Fresh Mozzarella was really delicious.

Pictures below

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2011, 11:11:28 PM »
more pictures

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2011, 11:15:38 PM »
more pictures

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2011, 11:19:22 PM »
more pictures

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2011, 11:22:16 PM »
end of pictures

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2011, 11:47:16 PM »
This also went good with the pizzas!  ;D

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 12:31:19 AM »
ponzu (Alexi) had asked me on Mattís thread at Reply 85 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14038.msg141591.html#msg141591 what the hydration I had used and the temperature the pie was baked at.  This is the formula I used for both pies and the bake temperatures in Steveís WFO were running about 850 degrees F to 880 degrees F.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 01:14:36 AM »
Norma, both pizzas look delish.  I would lean toward the second one, which flour was it?  Which was your favorite? :chef:
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 07:40:24 AM »
Norma, both pizzas look delish.  I would lean toward the second one, which flour was it?  Which was your favorite? :chef:

Gene,

Thanks for saying the pizzas looked deslish!  :) The second pie was made with the Caputo Rinforzato flour.  They both tasted like a Ischia pie to me.  I really couldnít tell the difference in the flavor.  The first pie was probably baked at the lower temperature in Steveís WFO.  Steve did put logs on usually after every two pies, but I donít think he put a log on before the bake of the first pie.  Steve was baking pies fast, so I really donít know what temperature the first pie was baked at.  I like the taste of the cheese best on the second pie.  Steve made many pizzas with that cheese and they all were delicious.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline StrayBullet

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 426
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 11:34:15 AM »
Norma,

That/those pies look great!!!!

Quick question for 'ya; how well does that dough come out of the container?  I still have issues unless I line my glass bowl with oiled plastic wrap.  Do you have to fight with the dough and how to you prevent crushing all that gorgeous rising work?

Thanks, Mark


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2011, 02:24:02 PM »
Norma,

That/those pies look great!!!!

Quick question for 'ya; how well does that dough come out of the container?  I still have issues unless I line my glass bowl with oiled plastic wrap.  Do you have to fight with the dough and how to you prevent crushing all that gorgeous rising work?

Thanks, Mark

Mark,

Thanks for saying the pies looked great.  :) Steveís WFO really helped.  I only floured the dough balls, but should have also oiled the containers.  The doughs were a little hard to get out of the container, but as soon as they were dusted with a little flour, they were okay. There didnít seem to be any problems with the dough (or rim) rising even if the dough was man handled some. I think your idea of oiling plastic wrap before the dough ball goes in is good.  I also think a bigger container that I could scoop the dough ball out would work better. 

If I have time Monday, I am going to try the same formula and let one dough ball sit out at market room temperatures until Tuesday.  I donít know how that will work out, but I want to see how a low percent starter dough works in the unpredictable market temperatures in a day.  It is supposed to be hotter in our area, so I donít have any idea how that might work out.  Maybe I will have to decrease the starter more than I did in this experiment.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2011, 07:56:23 AM »
I had planned on making another Ischia dough ball like I did in my last experiment before going to market, but I didnít have enough time, so I made the dough ball after I returned from market on Monday.  I changed the flour to KASL and upped the hydration, but used the small amount of starter in the dough.  I used 137 grams of water in this formula, but kept everything else the same. I then balled the dough and used olive oil to ball and also oil the plastic container.  The dough fermented for 3 hours at my home temperatures of around 80 degrees F.  I then put the dough ball in the refrigerator overnight because I knew the market temperatures would be higher yesterday.  The dough ball sat out at market for 8 hrs. at about 90 degrees F.  The dough fermented more than I wanted, but I still made the pizza. This pie was dressed with spinach under the cheese.  I used a blend of cheese Steve had brought for me, in combination with my regular mozzarella cheeses. The pizza rim didnít get as browned as I wanted, but the rim was moist and the bottom of the crust did have a nice crispness.  I think, but am not sure, if I had done a reball sometime Tuesday the crust would have browned more.

I am still trying to figure out what kind of cheese Steve bought and we used in his bakes in the WFO. I did try to Google the type of cheese, but had no results. I did call Russoís and looked up what kind of cheese that was, after she told me the brand,  but couldnít find anything.  The lady that answered the phone Monday at Russoís said the fresh whole milk mozzarella cheese can be bought in blocks, if you ask when you go to Russoís.  The next time Steve or I go to Russoís we are going to get some of that cheese in a block to be able to solve the mystery about what kind of cheese that was.  At least to Steve and me, that fresh mozzarella whole milk cheese tasted really great and had great melting.  It was so creamy.  Russoí imports so many things from Italy, but I am not sure about the cheese Steve bought.

Pictures below

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2011, 07:58:57 AM »
more pictures

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2011, 08:01:06 AM »
end of pictures

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2011, 08:10:00 AM »
Looks like a nice, moist crumb in those shots. :)

Norma, for the Ischia pies baked in Steve's WFO, what was the reason you incorporated 1.50% oil into the dough?

Thanks --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2011, 08:42:44 AM »
Looks like a nice, moist crumb in those shots. :)

Norma, for the Ischia pies baked in Steve's WFO, what was the reason you incorporated 1.50% oil into the dough?

Thanks --K

Kelly,

The pies made with the Ischia starter, baked in Steveís WFO and in my deck oven both did have moist crumbs.  I think if I had done a reball of the dough I used at market, I would have gotten better results, but I am not sure.  When trying to use room temperature control to make doughs and the temperatures were higher like Monday and Tuesday, it is hard to predict when to use the dough. Even if the dough was cold fermented some, like I did for Tuesdayís bake in my deck oven, watching over the dough to know when it is ready is complicated for me.  I didnít have those problems with the doughs to be used in Steveís WFO, because the temperatures were cooler.

The only reason I used the 1.5% oil was I always want to see if I like oil or no oil in doughs.  I am still undecided if I like oil or not, even if the doughs are baked in a WFO.  I have to do more experimenting on using oil or not.  Maybe the next time Steve invites me to his home for a bake, I will make two doughs, one with oil and one without, using the same formula.  Really I canít tell a big difference so far with using oil or not.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

buceriasdon

  • Guest
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2011, 09:16:50 AM »
Norma, I do use oil in certain doughs, thin and crispy for example, when I can say for certain it brings something to the party. When I can't detect an improvement it doesn't get invited. ;)
Don

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21637
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: My Ischia Neapolitan Pies by 5% weight of water
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2011, 10:45:46 AM »
Norma, I do use oil in certain doughs, thin and crispy for example, when I can say for certain it brings something to the party. When I can't detect an improvement it doesn't get invited. ;)
Don


Don,

Thanks for your observations and opinions about using oil in dough.  :) I appreciate any members comments and observations about using oil in dough or not, and what results they achieve. One of the reasons I am not still convinced on trying oil in the dough or not, is in using different formulas I used in Steveís WFO and also so many doughs I have tried in my deck oven, I have mixed feelings.  I tried these high hydration, high oil amounts in this thread at Reply 9 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13037.msg127491.html#msg127491 and I also posted about oil at Reply 28 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12390.msg117890.html#msg117890 I also posted about another dough I used with oil at Reply 169 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11700.msg111572.html#msg111572 I also used oil in a dough I thought I would try out in Steveís WFO, but we had too many doughs, and then I baked the Pyzanos Pizza dough in my deck oven with Pizzeria flour at Reply 17 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8032.msg132105.html#msg132105

I really like Johnís (fazzari) hybrid Reinhart dough right now and am experimenting with it. It also has oil in the dough formula. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13697.msg142280.html#msg142280 I donít know if I ever will figure out if I like oil in dough or not, but will keep experimenting.  :-D

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!