Author Topic: Craig's Neapolitan Garage  (Read 266923 times)

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Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #425 on: January 22, 2012, 03:15:57 AM »
I let my oven warm up for 7 hours today to see what would happen with a deeper heat. I also upped my hydration to 62%. I was able to use a smaller fire (I put it at the back instead of the side), but I don't think it made much difference in the bake, and I further confirmed that I don't like 62% as much as I do 60%.

CL

Phenomenal! (Check out the title of the picture below.)
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

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Offline bakeshack

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #426 on: January 22, 2012, 04:50:36 AM »
The last pie above was kind of interesing. I finished it with smoked EVOO. It was pretty good. I want to experiment with smoked oil on other pies. I think it would be good on a maranara.

CL

Craig,

Great pies as usual!  How did you make the clam pie?  Also, how long do you usually heat up your oven?  Do you move the fire around during preheat?

I have tried putting black chili oil on top of the marinara and it worked really well since you get some smokiness from the dried chilies (I used toasted Ancho and Guajillo) which plays really well with the garlic and tomato. 

Marlon

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #427 on: January 22, 2012, 07:24:49 AM »
Craig - I love the last pie, and the smoked EVOO idea. I may steal that one if I can find the product.

After 7 hours, what was the floor temp? Did you check the temp consistently over the course of the day? Did the oven "settle" into a temp and just sit there?

John

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #428 on: January 22, 2012, 07:35:03 AM »
After 7 hours, what was the floor temp? Did you check the temp consistently over the course of the day? Did the oven "settle" into a temp and just sit there?

I have the same question here!! I also want to know how stable is the oven after so many hours??
I also like the hydration lower, mine is around 59%.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline deb415611

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #429 on: January 22, 2012, 07:48:42 AM »
The last pie above was kind of interesing. I finished it with smoked EVOO. It was pretty good. I want to experiment with smoked oil on other pies. I think it would be good on a maranara.

CL

beautiful pizzas Craig

did you cold smoke the oil? 
Deb

Offline thezaman

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #430 on: January 22, 2012, 09:09:34 AM »
 Craig, 62 % seems to give you a little more lift in your rim. Did you increase your starter %?. smoked oil did you make it or purchase? First bake after you became famous the presure didn't efect your pies!!
 For practice do you ever cook multiple pizzas?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #431 on: January 22, 2012, 02:07:42 PM »
After 7 hours, what was the floor temp? Did you check the temp consistently over the course of the day? Did the oven "settle" into a temp and just sit there?

It was about 900 - but only because I increased the size of the fire a little. I had been running a medium - small fire all day, and the floor seemed to hold around 850.

CL
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Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #432 on: January 22, 2012, 02:09:15 PM »
Craig, 62 % seems to give you a little more lift in your rim. Did you increase your starter %?. smoked oil did you make it or purchase? First bake after you became famous the presure didn't efect your pies!!
 For practice do you ever cook multiple pizzas?


Maybe - I couldn't say for sure.

I kept the starter at 1.7%.

I can't make multiple pies with my current set-up. It's about 50' from where I make the pies to the oven.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #433 on: January 22, 2012, 02:13:21 PM »
did you cold smoke the oil? 

deb, Larry,

I purchased the smoked olive oil. It is from Texas Olive Ranch. It is OK. I've had better. The best I've ever tasted was at Hop Kiln winery in Sonoma. It tasted like drinking the oil out of a can of smoked sardines. I think you can order it on their website. I need to get some more. If you have not been to their place, it is well worth a visit if in Sonoma. They have all sorts of great things to taste in addition to good wine.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #434 on: January 22, 2012, 02:24:06 PM »
Phenomenal! (Check out the title of the picture below.)

Omid, your image makes me think of Daniel 3:19-25

19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king's command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, "Weren't there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?" They replied, "Certainly, Your Majesty." 25 He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."

I'm not drawing any comparisons - it's just the first thing that came to my mind when I saw it.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #435 on: January 22, 2012, 08:00:06 PM »
Who eats all these pies?  Are you known in the neighborhood like the zucchini guy, leaving bags of stuff surreptitiously on doorsteps?!

The pizza fairy.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #436 on: January 22, 2012, 08:01:44 PM »
Great pies as usual!  How did you make the clam pie?  Also, how long do you usually heat up your oven?  Do you move the fire around during preheat?

I took some pics of the clam pie in the making tonight and will post later. I usually heat for 4 hours. I don't move the fire around. I build it right in the middle. I've been pushing it to the left, but I think I like the back better now. I think I'll start warming longer.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #437 on: January 22, 2012, 10:05:53 PM »
Iíve been thinking for a while now if a thoroughly heated oven (such as one in a restaurant that gets used every day) bakes better than one that is just heated for a few hours. I had noticed that many of the places Iíve visited lately had a smaller fire than what I typically use. I figured that if there was more heat in the oven, you could get away with a smaller fire to keep the temp up. I think this mattes because it should give you a more even heat with a smaller percentage coming directly from the fire and a larger percentage coming from all directions. I have been discussing this with Omid, and we agreed it made sense to look at it closer.

To this end, I ran the oven for about 10 hours yesterday. When I got up this morning, it was about 450F. I usually open a bottle of wine in celebration of the oven lighting. This morning it was Cuban espresso (a little unrefined brown sugar stirred in as the espresso flows into the cup). I fired it up and let it heat for 9 hours before baking. It stayed a pretty steady 850F on the stone around the fire most of the day. About an hour before I used it, I pushed the fire to the back to let the floor heat even up. It evened out just a little over 900F in the center and 860F at the sides. This was the firs time I got the oven hot enough that there were a few places on the outside that were hot enough to be uncomfortable to touch.

Omid and I also discussed hydration. We hypothesized that with a deeper heat in the oven, better performance would come from higher hydration. There was concern that the 60% might not be able to handle the increased heat. Iíve been running 60% as you know. Yesterday, I upped it to 62%, and today 64%. I didnít change anything else. Salt was 2.9% and starter was 1.7%. 36 hours bulk at 60F. I had some interesting and rather unexpected observations.

1) My 60% dough is more workable than my 62% dough which is more workable than my 64% dough. The perceived wetness was followed the same order with 60% feeling the wettest. It was just the opposite when kneading the dough. The 64% was way wetter than Iím used to, and the 62% was also noticeably wetter than my 60%

2) The 64% dough rose A LOT faster than the 60% or 62%. And the 62% rose faster than my 60%. I generally see few, if any bubbles, at the end of bulk fermentation with the 60%. You can just see little ďpinpricksĒ were they are starting to form. With the 62%, they were a little more distinct. The 64% however had really risen. Lots of decent sized bubbles. It looked almost like you could have baked it. It makes sense that the wetter dough would ferment faster, but I was surprised how much. I worked this dough a lot more than the 60% or 62% to get it to where I could handle it easily. Perhaps that put enough heat into it to kick start fermentation?

3) The 62% tasted the sourest. The 64% had a little more flavor than my 60% but not a lot. Iím thinking that I must have had some perception problems coming from toppings or the wine and diet coke I was drinking (not together) or something. The resistance I was getting from the 64%, and to a smaller extent, the 62% as compared to my very relaxed 60% must have been due to the increased acid from the accelerated fermentation of the sourdough culture.

I was kind of hoping that I would not get good results out of the deep heat oven as Iím not going to heat it for two days every time I make pizza. That was not the case however. The oven baked some very nice pies. There is no doubt that they baked more evenly than my pies have in the past. I could see it right before my eyes as they baked. The heat coming directly off the fire was much less of a factor. I almost always get some area of intense charring on some of my pies where I let a side face the coals too long. None today, and I let them sit without turning longer than I normally do.

When Kelly first posted a picture of my oven several months ago at Slice, someone made the comment that Ďovens that get used every day bake better pies.í I didnít believe it at the time, but that person was right. They do, or at least they can.

As for 64%, like 62% I didnít like it as much as 60%. The pies Iíve baked at 60% are among the most tender Iíve ever eaten. These were really really good, but not quite as tender. Iím willing to give up a tiny bit of flavor for the texture of the 60% pies. Youíll see from the bench flour on the upskirts that I was a little afraid of the 64% hydration. In hindsight, I donít think I needed to be. The dough was not tacky at all. I think I was stuck on just how wet it was coming out of the mixer Ė you could just about pour it out Ė maybe you could have. Iím excited to try a 60% pie in the 2-day hot oven, but I donít know when that will be.

I did a couple new (to me anyway) things with toppings today that were pretty good:

On the prosciutto and salad pie, I put fresh mozzarella on the crust and then dotted tomato sauce around it Ė not a lot. I baked it, then topped with prosciutto, spring mix, Parmigiano-Reggiano, Texas Olive Ranch Meyer lemon oil, and sea salt. The slight sweetness of the tomatoes was exactly what this pie needed.

The onion pie had three types of onions. The yellow and red onions were tossed with EVOO and kosher salt I smoked. After they were roasted in the oven, I tossed them with a little bit of Texas Olive Ranch Mesquite smoked olive oil. I topped the pie with dry whole milk mozzarella, the roasted onions, thyme, and fresh ground black pepper. After the bake, I added thinly sliced green onions.

The clam pie was the best Iíve ever made and right up there with any Iíve ever tasted. It was topped with fresh clams, EVOO, red pepper flakes, garlic, and fresh cream. After the bake, it was finished with flat leaf parsley. I put a more detailed description up in a separate post.

Enjoy,
Craig

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #438 on: January 22, 2012, 10:06:40 PM »
continued
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #439 on: January 22, 2012, 10:07:08 PM »
continued
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #440 on: January 22, 2012, 10:07:35 PM »
continued
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline wheelman

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #441 on: January 22, 2012, 10:55:42 PM »
Nice work as always!  I usually fire my oven on the day before an important pizza night and always start it early. deep heat saturation definitely helps
Bill


Offline bakeshack

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #442 on: January 23, 2012, 02:35:24 AM »
Craig,

I love the new pie additions especially the onion pie.  I like how the red onion is sticking out like that.

Thanks for the very detailed information on your findings.  I have also settled with a 60% HD as my sweet spot after trying out 62% and 63% before.  You have confirmed my own findings.  Maybe a sub 60% HD is in the works next time. 

With regards to the long preheat and the fire in the back, did it affect or shorten your bake times?  I could definitely see the difference in the cornicione from your last batch of pies compared to this one.  We're very lucky to have a member like you who has a real commercial oven so we can truly simulate how pizzerias do it. 

Your clam pie looks awesome that is why I asked you earlier about it.  I will try without the wine next time I make it. 


Marlon


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #443 on: January 23, 2012, 09:32:03 AM »
With regards to the long preheat and the fire in the back, did it affect or shorten your bake times?  I could definitely see the difference in the cornicione from your last batch of pies compared to this one. 

I didn't time the pies, but I don't think there was a meaningful change in the bake time. I'm not exactly sure why I like the fire in the back. For some reason, things eem more natural with it back there? I think slightly to the left of the rear may end up being the right place for me.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #444 on: January 23, 2012, 05:07:56 PM »
Craig, if you enjoy the effect of a fully saturated oven, I really don't think you need two days to achieve it. With a strong enough fire, you should be able to do it with just the 9 hour pre-heat, and possibly even less. Also, rather than pushing the fire to the back, if you've got the space, try pushing the fire to the sides and back, like a horseshoe.  You might not want to bake with the horseshoe pattern, but some horseshoe pattern time for the pre-heat (while the floor is evening), wouldn't hurt.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #445 on: January 23, 2012, 05:30:22 PM »
Craig, if you enjoy the effect of a fully saturated oven, I really don't think you need two days to achieve it.
I hope not, because it ain't going to happen very often.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #446 on: January 24, 2012, 12:50:58 AM »
Iíve been thinking . . . .

Dear Craig, all of your pizzas look delectable and professional. Thank you! I wonder if situating the fire toward the back of your oven has any bearing on the heat circulationóparticularly convective heat, which probably impacts the conductive heatóinside the oven. How about the oven inhalation and exhalation?  Theoretically, under such condition, the air enters through the oven mouth and travels, presumably, more or less a direct path toward the back of the oven, where it is consumed and later exhaled as exhaust. Also, in terms of fuel consumption and maintaing the floor temperature, I wonder about the long-term effects of such arrangement, let's say, in a busy pizzeria where pizza orders keep coming in. Good night!
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #447 on: January 26, 2012, 11:06:26 AM »
I've been eating my 64%HR leftovers from Sunday for the past couple days, and they have been noticeably more tender than my typical 60% leftovers. I don't know if it is the extra 4% water or the way I handled the dough. For whatever the reason, they are a good bit more tender. Interestingly, I would say the 64% pies, right out of the oven were a little LESS tender than my typical 60% pies right out of the oven.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Ev

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #448 on: January 26, 2012, 03:03:25 PM »
Craig,
 Beautiful pies, as usual! :D

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Neapolitan Garage
« Reply #449 on: January 26, 2012, 03:05:02 PM »
Thanks Steve.

Tell me about the pie in that picture. Is that cheese? Oil on the crust? It is a beautiful color.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage