Craig's Neapolitan Garage

[Chicago Bob]

I'd like to get this nailed down so it could be added to the other thread detailing the whole process - so it could be recreated with baker's yeast. Any input is welcome.

Wow,this is big, real big. Thanks so much for wanting to do this Craig.

[andreguidon]

Craig, at 65F ~ 18C, with the 3% salt? your formula is 24h bulk + 24h balled, right? if i have time this weekend ill test it.

[Chicago Bob]

Is there a favored brand of CY to use?

[pizzaneer]

Is there a favored brand of CY to use?

Not sure CY is as interchangeable as IDY and ADY.  How about Flieschmans?  Kind of a standard, at least here on the EC.
 

[thezaman]

 craig the amount used by neapolitan pizzerias that do a 24 to 48 hour all room risen and held dough is .00027 about 15 grams per 55 kilos. you would have to do a water yeast blend and take a small amount of it for you final yeast mixture.sorry not smart enough to figure that out.it is .27 of a gram per kilo
 
 on another note one of my employees got into my private shirt stock for a post wedding he was helping with.
 

[bakeshack]

I'd like to get this nailed down so it could be added to the other thread detailing the whole process - so it could be recreated with baker's yeast. Any input is welcome.

It's probably closer to 0.03% or even less.  The problem with this is you need to make a larger batch unless you have the measuring scale that can do less than a gram.  I did a 40-hour dough with 0.03% CY, 2.8% salt, 60% water (24 hrs bulk, 16 hrs ball) maintained at 60-65F except during the last 8 hrs (at 75-78F) and I thought the dough was at its prime during the 36 hr mark.  I will also do it this weekend to see the exact timing and workflow that will suit the yeast amount.  

[TXCraig1]

on another note one of my employees got into my private shirt stock for a post wedding he was helping with.
 

That shirt really makes him look like a pro!

[Chicago Bob]

And you can see it gave his pie nice leoparding too!

[TXCraig1]

It's probably closer to 0.03% or even less.  The problem with this is you need to make a larger batch unless you have the measuring scale that can do less than a gram.  I did a 40-hour dough with 0.03% CY, 2.8% salt, 60% water (24 hrs bulk, 16 hrs ball) maintained at 60-65F except during the last 8 hrs (at 75-78F) and I thought the dough was at its prime during the 36 hr mark.  I will also do it this weekend to see the exact timing and workflow that will suit the yeast amount.  

There is a pretty easy way to measure out very small amounts of yeast. Say you want 0.1g, dissolve 1g yeast in 99g water and take 10g of the resulting mixture. It will have .1g yeast and 9.8g water. If you want finer precision, dissolve 2g yeast in 198g water. Each g of the resulting mixture will have 0.01g yeast and 0.99g water.

If your scale can measure to 0.1g, you can theoretically use this method to measure to 0.001g precision or even better. Don't forget to account for the water that comes with the yeast in the formula.

CL

[weemis]

nice! thanks, craig!

[pizzaneer]

Not to nitpick, but does yeast really dissolve?  Don't you wind up with a stratified layer at yeast's molecular weight compared to h20?  And if stirring, you have to consider clumping and turbulence and sticky areas on the walls, right?

[TXCraig1]

Not to nitpick, but does yeast really dissolve?  Don't you wind up with a stratified layer at yeast's molecular weight compared to h20?  And if stirring, you have to consider clumping and turbulence and sticky areas on the walls, right?

I only use ADY when I use baker's yeast. If I sprinkle it on warm water and let sit until it is completely wet and then give it a stir, it appears to be completely dissolved. I don't have any issues with a layer on top or sticking to the sides.

[Pete-zza]

The yeast producers use the term "dissolve" when discussing the rehydration of dry yeast. I have also seen Tom Lehmann use the same term in the same context.

Peter

[Michael130207]

I'd like to get this nailed down so it could be added to the other thread detailing the whole process - so it could be recreated with baker's yeast. Any input is welcome.

I tried to follow your process and used 0.02% ADY, I found it to work pretty well except that the dough was a bit too extensible at 62.5% hydration. You had commented before that the sourdough acids may help to tighten up the dough some. The temperature varied between 60F and 65F for the bulk rise of 26 hours. Balled then about 65F for 12 hours and 74F for 4 hours prior to baking.

[TXCraig1]

I tried to follow your process and used 0.02% ADY, I found it to work pretty well except that the dough was a bit too extensible at 62.5% hydration. You had commented before that the sourdough acids may help to tighten up the dough some. The temperature varied between 60F and 65F for the bulk rise of 26 hours. Balled then about 65F for 12 hours and 74F for 4 hours prior to baking.

Even with SD, it's pretty extensible. I'm going to try 60% next time and see how big the difference is. Please let me know what happends if you try it at a lower hydration with ADY.

[dellavecchia]

At ~65F?

At 65F, and using your extended bulk, I would say start with .05%. But I think even that may be too much. Use water that is 65F when mixing, so the yeast does not get ahead of you.

John

[TXCraig1]

At 65F, and using your extended bulk, I would say start with .05%. But I think even that may be too much. Use water that is 65F when mixing, so the yeast does not get ahead of you.

John

I would think even ~40F water like I use with SD might be the way to go. Thoughts?

[dellavecchia]

I would think even ~40F water like I use with SD might be the way to go. Thoughts?

Probably the best way to approach it. I have always had varying results with different "brands" of CY. Sometimes I get a package, and the dough starts to expand before your eyes, way too early. And sometimes it goes too slowly and never hits the mark. The most consistent results I have had always came from the large block you get at RD. Total overkill, especially when using such low percentages though.

John

[TXCraig1]

Probably the best way to approach it. I have always had varying results with different "brands" of CY. Sometimes I get a package, and the dough starts to expand before your eyes, way too early. And sometimes it goes too slowly and never hits the mark. The most consistent results I have had always came from the large block you get at RD. Total overkill, especially when using such low percentages though.

John

That's why I like ADY for pizza at home - not that I use it very often. I have not used CY since I worked in a restaurant almost 20 years ago. We used it for all our bread. I went through a case - not a 1# block - every week.

[Mangia Pizza]

My CY didn't pass the proofing test, so I did a 60% hydration, 0.025% IDY (Caputo pizzeria) mix.

Planning to bulk 24hrs + ball 24hrs at approximately 65F and see what happens.....

Will keep you posted, although I got to say I liked the way the 60% hydration handled while slapping and folding compared to the 63%.