Author Topic: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride  (Read 7106 times)

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Offline scott r

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2011, 12:43:32 PM »
those do look like killer ovens.   we should ask brian spangler what his electric bill is!    Those pies he makes really look like they are perfect coal oven style. 


Offline caseyspizza

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2011, 12:29:54 AM »
question - how would you guys differentiate between the look and texture of a coal fired pie vs. a neapolitan pie (wood fired I am assuming).

Offline caseyspizza

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2011, 12:38:40 AM »
Here's some pies i've made in a small countertop Baker's Pride electric in SF.  :-D :chef: These small ovens with compressed bake chambers do kick ass. I've measured 730 on the deck at the start of a service. I just hate the idea of electric.







Offline caseyspizza

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2011, 12:46:09 AM »
now here's a couple I made in the Little Black Egg at my street stand.  ::)


Offline caseyspizza

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2011, 12:49:00 AM »
and here's my fave pie from Pizzeria Delfina in SF, their broccoli rabe. Cooked in their modded Marsal MB 60 with firebrick deck. they use 00 flour, not sure why they don't push the pies a shade darker, maybe it's less fermented dough, less natural sugars.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 12:51:00 AM by caseyspizza »

Online scott123

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2011, 01:35:59 PM »
Casey, great pizza doesn't discriminate between heat sources.  A firebrick hearth, preheated to the same temperature, using gas, electric or wood will produce an identical pizza every time.  When Jeff Varasano opened his pizzeria in Atlanta, he wanted a wood fired brick oven, but the building code wouldn't allow it, so he worked with an oven manufacturer in Sweden to engineer an electric oven that would give him wood fired temps. Here's an example of what he can do with his oven:

http://www.varasanos.com/Photos950/pages/08_Img7080.htm

As you can see, like you, he's not striving for a pure Neapolitan bake time.  This level of leoparding, though, would most likely not be possible with even a modded gas oven.

Not that you'd want to go with electric with your need for mobility, but I just wanted to point out that any oven, if it can go to the right temperature can make any type of pizza.

As far as the differences between the look and texture of Neapolitan and coal, the most obvious difference is leoparding.  The faster a pizza bakes, the less evenness there is to the browning.  With really fast, less than 2 minute bakes, instead of a nice even tan color, the pizza browns/burns in spots. The sugar and acids in the dough play a role, but, generally speaking, the faster the bake time, the greater the contrast between the dark spots and the rest of the rim. As you get into 3-4 minute coal bake times, you can still get some uneven browning, but the contrast is far less.

Texturally, because of the faster bake and rapidly expanding steam, Neapolitan pizza is usually puffier than coal, which, in turn is puffier than NY.  The one advantage that longer bake times do provide is crispness.   Neapolitan pizzas may be crisp coming out of the oven, but, by the time they're consumed, the water in the core of the rim has migrate outward and softened the exterior.

With all the talk about Delfina and their modded oven, I have to admit, that's a pretty disappointing looking pizza. I don't know why they would go through such trouble to mod their oven and then go with a chain style thickness factor.  Your pizzas have a far better sense of proportion.

Delfina's thickness factor failings aside, Scott R has provided some excellent insight regarding upgrading the thermostat. It sounds like you're leaning towards the MB as of late, but I still think Baker's Pride should be a contender, as it, too, can be fitted with a brick ceiling, and, unlike the MB, appears to have a 140K BTU option.  Between the upgraded thermostat and the more powerful burner, I get the feeling you're going to be going through an obscene amount of fuel (which, in turn, will necessitate larger, heavier containers), but if you want something along the lines of what you're presently making, I don't think you have a choice.

As Scott pointed out, though, an unmodded 650 deg. oven can make great pizza.  Personally, I prefer a 4 minute pizza to a 2.5 minute one. If you look at pizza sales around the nation, 4-7 minute pizzas outsell 2.5 minute pizzas by a factor of what could easily be 1000 to 1. Baking good 4-7 minute pizzas is like printing money.  2.5 minute folks can get pretty fanatical, though, so expect some backlash from your current clientele should you decide to extend your bake.

Offline scott r

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2011, 01:44:25 PM »
I think the reason why delfina is not letting the pies get darker is that they are not using a malted flour (they are using caputo pizzeria now).   A non malted flour like caputo would get tough if it was allowed go much darker than these pics at the temps they are using (6-700 degrees).   It is really meant for an 800 degree deck.    

As far as the differences between coal oven and neapolitan, I tend to think of neapolitan pizza as being cooked in 2 minutes or less, and coal oven pizza being more in the 3-4 minute range.    the speed of the bake really dictates how the crust texture ends up, and what types of cheeses will work, and this all adds up to what style the pizza is.


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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2011, 02:36:20 PM »
they are using caputo pizzeria now

Caputo pizzeria flour at 6-700 temps? That is one big bag of fail (imho  ;D).

Offline caseyspizza

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2011, 11:33:59 PM »
Well i received my Marsal MB 60, it's a beaut. Now we shall see if I can meet expected demand using just one oven/deck as I intend to do both slices and whole pies.  :o

Offline caseyspizza

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pizza truck build
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2011, 02:31:25 AM »
here's some pics of the truck build....almost there.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/caseyspizza/sets/72157627444406046/
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 02:35:42 AM by caseyspizza »


Online scott123

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2011, 10:05:53 AM »
Wow, Casey, that is impressive. San Francisco's first pizza truck- history in the making!  ;D

So, have you fired up the oven yet?

Offline gabaghool

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2011, 01:45:45 PM »
maybe it's less fermented dough, less natural sugars.

Casy....if you don't mind.....can you explain this statement?

As far as I knew, YOUNG dough is the dough with lots of sugars.  I know that when I use a young dough (without a 2 to 3 day cold ferm) my pizzas BURN.  I thought that this was because the yeasts had not consumed enough of the sugars in the flour.......................so  I never use young or cold dough (and because the ovenspring, taste and appearance are all nauseating to me at that age.

Thanks for any clarifications....I appreciate it.

Offline gabaghool

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2011, 01:52:43 PM »
Scott

I must agree wholeheartedly with your descriptions on the bake time and crispness of a pizza.  I also prefer a longer bake time, simply for the fact that I enjoy crispy pizza, even when its takeout.  ANd since most pizzerias depend HEAVILY on return customers in the take out department, I think a longer bake time will get a better return response.

When I lived in Italy, I was NEVER crazy about their pizza.  It was good, but, in my opinion, not great.  But, I realized long ago that it wasn't that the pizzas were made wrong, its simply is their STYLE of pizza crust.  And the knife and fork also....hated it then AND now.

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2011, 10:32:37 PM »
Here's an example of what he can do with his oven:

http://www.varasanos.com/Photos950/pages/08_Img7080.htm



If you scroll back and forth, you can see the basil wilt in the background between beers. Not sure why I find that interesting...
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline gabaghool

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2011, 03:28:05 PM »
http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/09/caseys-pizza-truck-hits-the-road.html#continued

This was the FIRST thread I ever read on this site....I think...but it always stuck to my mind.

Nice article casey......the truck looks fantastic.

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Re: Marsal vs. Baker's Pride
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2011, 05:05:28 PM »
What, no close-up on the pizza?! I'm sitting here squinting at the photo, and although I think it might be a 3ish minute pie, I just can't tell.

Casey, I'm not sure how frequently you're checking in, but I'm dying for an update.

Thermostat mod or no mod?
Firebrick or fibrament hearth?
Current bake time?
This is a propane conversion, right? How did that go?  How much fuel are you going through?
How are the new pies comparing to the old ones? Are your customers happy?

Inquiring minds want to know  ;D