Author Topic: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market  (Read 9190 times)

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Online norma427

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John started a thread about making a hybrid Reinhart pizza and after he had tried the hybrid Reinhart dough he used this formula at Reply 27 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13697.msg140122.html#msg140122  I decided to also try the dough, since the pizzas looked so good.  I had experimented with some Reinhart doughs before.  I first tried Johnís formula to make pizza mixed in my UBM machine at Reply 84 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13668.msg142157.html#msg142157  and again at Reply 93 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13668.msg143137.html#msg143137         The only thing I did different was dropped the amount of yeast to 0.25% .  

Since I liked the pizzas so much, I decided to make 5 dough balls at market today to test if the hybrid Reinhart dough and pizzas can be made at market.  This time I upped the IDY to 0.50%.

I mixed the hybrid Reinhart dough today at market.  The dough was sticky.  I divided and balled the dough balls and put three dough balls into plastic containers and also put 2 two balls into plastic bags to see how that would work.  I decided to take the pH of the dough just to see what it was after balling. The pH was 5.97.  The final dough temperature was 78.3 degrees F.

Pictures below

Norma
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 06:40:32 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 06:13:33 PM »
I reballed the 5 hybrid Reinhart dough balls today at market.  I had all the 5 dough balls on the same shelf  in the deli case, but it seems the one dough ball did form a few bubbles on the top.  I donít know why that happened.  The hybrid Reinhart dough did come out of the plastic bags okay, and didnít leave any mess.  I decided to ball the dough balls different to see what happens.  I reballed some with just olive oil, some with olive oil and flour and one with just flour.  The dough is very soft, but it wasnít sticky. 

I took the pH of the dough if anyone is interested.  The pH of one dough ball was 5.65.

Pictures below

Norma
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Online norma427

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2011, 10:11:07 PM »
These are the pies baked from the hybrid Reinhart dough balls. I used all 5 dough balls. The dough balls were used to bake pizzas from this morning until the second to the last pie of the evening.  I am not satisfied with the bake or the taste of the crust.  The pies didnít brown as I wanted them to and the bottom of the crust seemed to be a different color.  The bottom crusts were sorta crunchy.  I donít know why, but 4 pies didnít need screens and one pie did, near the end of the bake. 

The dough balls did open easily and the dough balls didnít want to stick to the 2 plastic bags.  I donít know if it was the way the dough was opened or not, but the rims didnít get consistent. I donít know if my bake temperatures were right for this type of pie.

I saved one slice and waited about a half an hour, until it cooled.  When I reheated the slice, it seemed dry and the bottom became really crunchy.

Three of the pies were dressed with my regular cheeses and sauce and the other two pies had other dressings.

Pictures below

Norma
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Online norma427

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2011, 10:13:42 PM »
more pictures

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2011, 10:16:05 PM »
more pictures

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 10:20:51 PM »
more pictures

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 10:23:24 PM »
more pictures

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 10:24:37 PM »
end of pictures

Norma
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Offline Moondance

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2011, 10:25:07 PM »
Beautiful Norma,
That is a recipe I want to try myself.  Great stuff.
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2011, 10:30:55 PM »
Beautiful Norma,
That is a recipe I want to try myself.  Great stuff.


Regina,

When I tried the hybrid Reinhart formula out last week, I had different results.  I don't know if it was the way I made the dough, handled the dough, or my oven temperatures or what happened, but the pies didn't taste the same today.  The hybrid Reinhart pie I made last week browned much better on the bottom and also had a much better taste in the crust.

Thanks for saying you thought they looked beautiful.  :)

Norma
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Offline Moondance

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2011, 10:59:47 PM »
I want to learn from you guys and gals.  I know as a newbie my opinions does'nt count as much but I am anxious to learn!  Why is pizza so complicated anyway? 
Regina

"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul."
John Muir

Offline fazzari

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2011, 11:01:07 PM »
Norma
Sorry they didn't work out like you wished!!  The last whole pie picture sure looked like a beauty though!!
Gotta ask: 1) When did you reball?  2) Have you ever used an infrared gun to check the temperature of your deck....this was an enlightening lesson for me,  as not only are my decks different, there are definite hot and cold spots on each deck and 3) are you using flour to slide you pizzas off your peel, and have you tried corn meal.  Thanks for trying though Norma

John

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2011, 11:11:18 PM »
I want to learn from you guys and gals.  I know as a newbie my opinions does'nt count as much but I am anxious to learn!  Why is pizza so complicated anyway? 

Regina,

You will learn to make different kinds of pies, if you stay around the forum long enough.  I had many failures in many experiments I did.  If you would have seen the thread when I first started making pizza, it would make you chuckle.  :-D I did so many things wrong, but finally learned.  I still have my share of failures.  Pizza is still complicated to me in many ways.  I am still learning everyday.

Norma
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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2011, 11:22:14 PM »
Norma
Sorry they didn't work out like you wished!!  The last whole pie picture sure looked like a beauty though!!
Gotta ask: 1) When did you reball?  2) Have you ever used an infrared gun to check the temperature of your deck....this was an enlightening lesson for me,  as not only are my decks different, there are definite hot and cold spots on each deck and 3) are you using flour to slide you pizzas off your peel, and have you tried corn meal.  Thanks for trying though Norma

John

John,

You donít have to say you are sorry. I could have done many things wrong. Thanks for saying the last pie looked like a beauty.  :) It was the last pizza baked.  I reballed all the dough balls yesterday afternoon.  I have used an infra red gun to check my deck temperatures many times, and I know my deck temperatures are all over the place.  I have my oven turned down now, but still the pies donít all bake even.  I try to slide the pies in at about the same place, but they always arenít rotated the same, if I have to wait on customers, or am opening up more dough balls.  I use rice flour on my peel.  I never tried corn meal.  Do you think that would make a difference?  I am not a quitter, so I will be trying your formula again, to see why I didnít get the results I got the last time.  Do you have any other suggestions about what I might have done wrong?  I am here to learn from my mistakes.

Thanks for helping me.

Norma
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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2011, 11:57:02 PM »
Wow, this is surprising.  And it's all John's fault!  JK  :-D

Too bad you weren't crazy about the results.  As I was scrolling down the post I thought the dough looked really good.   When I got to the bottom where you showed the fermented dough, I thought that it was proofed more than I would have like it.  That might explain the lack of color but again, I haven't looked at the recipe so that is a wild guess.   The crunchiness on the bottom I tend to like, but that's just me.  Also some of the crumb shots look pretty good as well.

Chau

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2011, 12:10:22 AM »
Wow, this is surprising.  And it's all John's fault!  JK  :-D

Too bad you weren't crazy about the results.  As I was scrolling down the post I thought the dough looked really good.   When I got to the bottom where you showed the fermented dough, I thought that it was proofed more than I would have like it.  That might explain the lack of color but again, I haven't looked at the recipe so that is a wild guess.   The crunchiness on the bottom I tend to like, but that's just me.  Also some of the crumb shots look pretty good as well.

Chau


Chau,

It sure isnít Johnís fault that my pies didnít turned out like I wanted.  At Reply 93 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13668.msg143137.html#msg143137 is where I made  Johnís hybrid Reinhart pizza last week.  It was great!  If you go back a few posts in the same thread, you can see how the dough looked over fermented, but after it was reballed, it was fine.

I know I probably did  something wrong, that I didnít get the same results this week.  Thanks for saying some of the crumb shots look pretty good.

Norma
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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2011, 01:55:39 AM »
Norma
As I experimented my way through the Hybrid doughs, I found out that I got best results if I didn't reball any longer than 8 hours prior to bake...I think it was reply 37 on the hybrid thread.  I found that if I reballed before that 8 hour mark, the dough was strong and manageable, and I felt like I was in control instead of trying to react to a superstretchy dough...I hope you understand what I'm saying.  Another thing I found was that the shorter reball period, causes much less blistering and lets the formed dough bake as it is formed.  I could tell from your pictures, that your dough was kinda exploding from all over the place.  So, my goal was to be in control of the dough......and so that 8 hour reball window is my rule of thumb

With super moist dough, I find that if I open the dough up with lots of flour....and stretch it too where I want, knocking off all the flour, and then laying my dough on a small sprinkling of corn meal works beautifully.  I used to have problems with the moist dough picking up and holding the flour, and then burning in the oven... I detested that!!

As for oven temperature...I have always believed there is a perfect temperature where bottom and top are done at the same time....I'm finding that around 520 to 540 degrees I can bake these pies and never have to use a screen.  The top edges are always last to brown, but when they start, they take but a minute.

Having said all that, your pizza with the spinach(?) excited me....I thought it looked fantastic!!!!!

Best wishes
John
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 01:59:03 AM by fazzari »

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 08:48:44 AM »
Norma
As I experimented my way through the Hybrid doughs, I found out that I got best results if I didn't reball any longer than 8 hours prior to bake...I think it was reply 37 on the hybrid thread.  I found that if I reballed before that 8 hour mark, the dough was strong and manageable, and I felt like I was in control instead of trying to react to a superstretchy dough...I hope you understand what I'm saying.  Another thing I found was that the shorter reball period, causes much less blistering and lets the formed dough bake as it is formed.  I could tell from your pictures, that your dough was kinda exploding from all over the place.  So, my goal was to be in control of the dough......and so that 8 hour reball window is my rule of thumb

With super moist dough, I find that if I open the dough up with lots of flour....and stretch it too where I want, knocking off all the flour, and then laying my dough on a small sprinkling of corn meal works beautifully.  I used to have problems with the moist dough picking up and holding the flour, and then burning in the oven... I detested that!!

As for oven temperature...I have always believed there is a perfect temperature where bottom and top are done at the same time....I'm finding that around 520 to 540 degrees I can bake these pies and never have to use a screen.  The top edges are always last to brown, but when they start, they take but a minute.

Having said all that, your pizza with the spinach(?) excited me....I thought it looked fantastic!!!!!

Best wishes
John


John,

I know you did much experimenting with many Reinhart doughs, including your new hybrid Reinhart.  I remember on your hybrid Reinhart thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13697.0.html  you did post that how many hours before the bake, that  you did the reball.  I see you are in control of your dough from doing the experiments.  You are right that my dough was kinda exploding all over the place, and in some areas of the rim, there was not much rise.  That is why I wondered if I didnít open the dough right.  I got Steve to open one dough ball to see if it was my problem of opening the dough, but his pie was the same as mine.  I donít think it would be possible for me to do an 8 hr. reball, because I make pizzas all day and canít be at market to fit that time line.

You can see on some of my pictures that my super moist dough did hold some of the flour after the bake.  I did try to use the least amount of flour when opening the dough and placing it on the peel, but I guess it was too much.  You were right about the hybrid Reinhart dough opening right out of the fridge.  That is one big plus for this dough.  I will have to purchase some corn meal and give it a try.

I have my oven set at 525 degrees F, but as I have posted my deck temperatures are all over the place.  I think after much experiencing, I did find the best temperatures for my preferment Lehmann dough, but still am not sure.  I donít know if I will be able to find the right baking temperatures for the hybrid Reinhart dough in my deck oven. 

Do you or anyone else have any ideas of what I can do to compensate for the times I am allowed to do a reball and having to then use the dough all day?  Your hybrid Reinhart dough does remind me using different higher hydration doughs and having to have the time of the reballs right to have the finished product bake right.  Your formula is a great formula, but I donít know if I will be able to control all the variables to make this dough at market.  It is different when you only have to watch one dough ball and then have to watch many dough balls.

Thanks for saying the spinach pizza excited you.  The spinach was baby spinach that I purchased at market.  I used a combination of fresh whole milk mozzarella and my mozzarella blend for the cheeses and a some yellow tomatoes from my garden on that pie.

Thanks for your help!  :)

Norma
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Offline fazzari

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 11:44:35 AM »
Norma
I've experimented with reballing 2 to 8 hours on the hybrid, and have had great luck with all of them..  I too am limited by my time and so I reball when it best suits my time.  Don't worry too much about reballing at shorter amounts of time prior to reball.....remember the original Reinhart recipes called for reballing right before taking the dough out of the fridge to warm up, which was 90 to 120 minutes, so a 2 hour reball on this dough doesn't seem that extravagant...and in fact its not, the pizzas are wonderful.  Again, I'm sure you will find, if you change your reball, you will find a dough which is much more manageable, takes much less flour, and will have far fewer blisters, and best of all you will feel like YOU are the master, not the dough.

I froze a dough ball the other day, and put it in the fridge to thaw for a day....when I get home in a couple hours I'll show you how the experiment turns out.

Have a great day
JOhn

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Re: Johnís (fazzari) Hybrid Reinhart Dough to be Tried at Market
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2011, 02:25:07 PM »
Norma
I've experimented with reballing 2 to 8 hours on the hybrid, and have had great luck with all of them..  I too am limited by my time and so I reball when it best suits my time.  Don't worry too much about reballing at shorter amounts of time prior to reball.....remember the original Reinhart recipes called for reballing right before taking the dough out of the fridge to warm up, which was 90 to 120 minutes, so a 2 hour reball on this dough doesn't seem that extravagant...and in fact its not, the pizzas are wonderful.  Again, I'm sure you will find, if you change your reball, you will find a dough which is much more manageable, takes much less flour, and will have far fewer blisters, and best of all you will feel like YOU are the master, not the dough.

Have a great day
JOhn

John,

Thanks again for reminding me what the times were that you used for the reballs.  I will have to go back to a one trial dough ball this coming week and do a reball at market when I arrive in the morning, and use the dough ball in a few hours.  Maybe that will help my final results.  At least starting at square one and going from there, maybe I will understand how this dough works at market better.

I appreciate you take the time to help me understand dough.  Since you have studied dough for many years, you are the master of how doughs behave.  I still have much to learn.

Have a great day too!  :)

Norma
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