Author Topic: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!  (Read 8102 times)

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Offline chickenparm

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Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« on: June 25, 2011, 03:01:35 AM »
I decided to try using the broiler method,and since it was my first time,I was not sure how long to cook the bottom then move to the broiler.I know my old oven gets very hot at times,and I did not factor that in tonight.

I ended up with a 5 minute pie,but in reality,it could have been perfect in 4 minutes or even less.I ended up over cooking the crust and cheese somewhat,but I am really happy so far. I do like my pizza well done,but I do know sometimes a bit overcooked can be overkill.

I also cannot explain it,but the pizza tastes so much better than before,over just cooking down on the lower stone itself.The rim had a wonderful crispy crunch I never was able to duplicate before.

I cooked the pie for 2 minutes on the stone on the lowest rack,then I put the pie on the top rack under the broiler,and my goal was another 2 minutes,but in between taking pics,and getting stuff ready,I left it in for 3 minutes,following the timer I had.

The dough was a 14 inch,63% hydration.I used KABF and it rose for 2 days in the fridge after it was done mixing in the bread machine.I used fresh mozz cheese and home made sauce combined with puree and fresh tomatoes mixed in from the farmers market.







-Bill


Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 03:05:17 AM »
few more pics...
-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2011, 03:09:16 AM »
pic of the bottom...
-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 03:32:49 AM »
Bill your 5 min pie looks great and that crumb shot is awesome!  Welcome to the world of the NY hybrid pie.    Pies between 3-4min can be awesome.   I have also gotten really fantastic pies in the 2.5m realm.  I think there are fantastic pies to be had in the full spectrum of baking times and temps between 1m all the way upto 20m.  It all boils down to what textural qualities you enjoy and balancing the dough and bake.

Good work!

Offline norma427

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2011, 08:15:14 AM »
Bill,

Your pie really looks beautiful.  Great crumb, too!   :)

Norma

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2011, 10:39:34 AM »
Very nice pie Bill. I like the cornice a lot - inside and out.

CL
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 11:04:07 AM »
Bill,

Very nice job.

Some time ago, I discussed another way of baking a NY style pizza in which the pizza is started at an upper oven rack position and then moved down to a preheated stone. See, for example, Reply 45 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.msg20965.html#msg20965. Of course, since that post, other innovative and creative methods have been devised and discussed by members on the forum. For me personally, I always like to be able to see the pizza while it is baking. That means that I won't be able to see the pizza in my oven if the pizza is too close to the broiler. I have to open the oven door to peek at the pizza to see how it is baking. My oven door has a glass window but it is not high enough to see a pizza baking a few inches below the broiler, and opening the door to check on the pizza lets out a lot of heat. Also, it takes real skill to load a big pizza, for example, a pizza larger than 16" (assuming the stone is big enough for that size) into a small space below the broiler element. I also do not relish the idea of moving a preheated pizza stone at over 500 degrees F from one position in the oven to another position.

Peter

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 03:04:55 PM »
Thanks for all the nice words of support folks! It was a fun experiment and Im sure to do again and again.
I know I keep making boring azz cheese pies,those are for experiments.When I dial a pizza recipe in I like,then I add other toppings,and the family eats.

Once I dial this in,I will eventually learn to make pies under 4 minutes hopefully.
 ;D

I wanted to post,I cooked the pie on the bottom stone on the lowest rack,but when I moved it to the upper rack under the broiler,I took it out with my thin metal peel,then moved the pie onto a large screen so it would not fall through the upper rack itself or dip into it.The bottom was pretty much cooked nicely by then.Having different sized screens allow me to place one on the upper rack,ready to slide a pie off the peel,onto there.No handling of dangerous,hot stones.

I agree with Peter,I like to be able to see the pizza.I dont even have a glass door,and when its under the broiler,its a little harder to see with the door open.Once I know about how fast the pie cooks under the broiler,I can take it out earlier or to do a quick look over before sliding it all the way out.Also,having an over sized screen on there,can make it easier with oven gloves,to remove.

 :)

-Bill

Offline fazzari

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 07:27:44 PM »
Bill
I think the bottom of your pizza says it all.....I think your pizza looks fabulous!!!

John


Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 08:54:42 PM »
Thanks John and everyone again,for the nice words.
 :)
I believe this pie could have been just fine at 4 minutes to maybe 4:30.Taking it out at 5 minutes was a bit over done,but thats all part of the fun.

I also forget,many times,when I take a pizza out,it continues to cook and brown for maybe another minute outside the stone,because its so hot,resulting in a much darker color as compared to when first taking it out.I noticed after a few minutes of a pie sitting out,it darkens a bit,depending on how much sugar or oil I may have used.

These steps are helping me understand my dough better,and with higher heat,comes possibly little to no oil or sugar needed.Gonna be a hard habit to break,because I love the taste of it.
 :)






-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 02:18:09 AM »
Well,I did another experiment tonight,I was kind of shocked by how it turned out.I made a goal for a 4 minute pie and I still ended up overcooking the pizza at 4 minutes!I used a timer,and took it out at 4 minutes.

This pizza was probably ready in the 3 minute range somewhere I would imagine.Dont get me wrong,the slices were great,I loved it,but it was overdone again using the broiler.The pie cooked on the bottom stone for a little over 2 minutes,and I moved the pie to the top rack under the broiler for the next 2.

Here are a few pics...



-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 02:18:55 AM »
Sorry folks,I uploaded the cam pics and its not showing.I will post them as soon as I can.
-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 02:26:07 AM »
Hope this works...exactly 4 minute pie.Wonderful,and a bit softer and chewier,despite being over done on top.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 02:29:20 AM by chickenparm »
-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011, 02:45:39 AM »
I found some not so blurry crumb shots to share.The one below in the middle is just a big void between slices.My other pics are blurry and would give ya vertigo looking at it.

 :-[



« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 02:50:34 AM by chickenparm »
-Bill

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2011, 05:45:17 PM »
Wow! Hold on to that oven!

How was the bottom of the four minute pie? Are you doing anything differently to preheat, or just the usual 550? I've been wondering if using the broiler during the preheat would help get the stone hotter.

Matt

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 09:42:16 PM »
Hi Matt,

For the 4 minute pie,

I just turn the knob to one notch past 550 on Bake,as far as it goes,and about 30-45 minutes the stone on the lowest rack reads about 610-620 degrees F.

Launch the pie,then turn on the broiler.After 2 minutes,place the pie off the stone,under the broiler.

Im still learning how much time to do the bottom and the top.Here is the bottom after 2 minutes.It cooked enough to be done for most folks that don't want too dark a char.I liked it as well.I prefer mine a bit more cooked but was happy with this one.More chewey than crispy,still tasted very good,not undercooked at all,even for the color.

Maybe 2 and half minutes on the bottom and 1 minute or less under the broiler? Not sure yet...gonna experiment some more this week coming up.Broiler cooks the top super fast,and need to dial that time in.


-Bill

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 10:21:32 PM »
Thanks Bill, look forward to seeing the continuation of your experiment.





Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2011, 01:59:30 AM »
I was trying to do something tonight,make a Neo NY style pie.I did not realize until the last minute,I only had part skim milk cheese left in the fridge.

I put 4 basil leaves on,and one got burned bad,so I took it off after the pie came out.

4 minute pie on the stone with the broiler top bake used for 45 seconds.Does not look like much but tasted very good.I let the oven warm up for 30 minutes and it just did not get hot enough to cook in high 2 minutes or 3 minute range.

Still,I wanted to post the pictures.











-Bill

Offline norma427

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2011, 07:35:49 AM »
Bill,

I think your pizza is very tasty looking and your crumb also looks good!   :)

Norma

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2011, 01:57:43 PM »
Thanks Norma...

The rim was too big for my liking,since I prefer to stretch the dough out more.Did not think it would get that big.Ah it was edible enough to enjoy.
 :)
-Bill

Offline communist

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2011, 03:03:12 PM »
Bill, I like your pies.  I think our dough is very similar, that is 63% and 2 day cold ferment, and I am a fan of the 4 minute bake with broiler assist for 45 second. 
Good work!

Offline Moondance

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2011, 06:48:13 PM »
Those pics look great to me.  So you are cooking it on the stone on the bottom rack and then moving it to the  screen and cooking it on the screen under the broiler?
Regina

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Offline Moondance

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2011, 06:56:47 PM »
Those pics look great to me.  So you are cooking it on the stone on the bottom rack and then moving it to the  screen and cooking it on the screen under the broiler?

Never mind, I re-read and see that is what you did.  I may try that tomorrow night.  I have not been getting as much puffiness lately just staying on the bottom rack.  But maybe I'll try one rack down from under the broiler so I can see the pie through the oven window (as Pete mentioned). 

I look forward to reading about your next pies.
Regina

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Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2011, 10:02:19 PM »
Bill, I like your pies.  I think our dough is very similar, that is 63% and 2 day cold ferment, and I am a fan of the 4 minute bake with broiler assist for 45 second. 
Good work!

Thanks Buddy....I have been noticing,my best pies are around 4 minutes..give or take.I have made a few high 2 minute pies but I was not very happy with the outcome.They were good,but did not taste fully cooked.I do need alot more heat and a better stone or steel.I keep saying that and then I dont order anything new for a while.
 :-D

So for now,depending on the pie size,and how hot the oven gets,a 3-5 minute pie is probably my best shot to get what I like best.I may try another pie to reach the 2 minute range again,but Im not convinced Its going to be what I want yet.I will still take pics and post progress,whether they are great or not.


 :)
-Bill

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Almost There! Broiler Finish and 5 Minute Pie!
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2011, 10:13:15 PM »
Never mind, I re-read and see that is what you did.  I may try that tomorrow night.  I have not been getting as much puffiness lately just staying on the bottom rack.  But maybe I'll try one rack down from under the broiler so I can see the pie through the oven window (as Pete mentioned). 

I look forward to reading about your next pies.

Regina,as you can see,I have done the pies both ways.I cook on the stone,then move it up to a screen under the broiler,or I moved the stone up to the broiler area and finish the pie there.See my other NY threads about the 3 minute and 2 minute pies for more info.One I put on the second lower rack and it looked nothing like the top rack pie.If you need the link,let me know.

I will say,after about 2 minutes of bake time on the bottom stone,Im not getting any more real rim rise when I move it up under the broiler.I think its as high as it can go after 2 minutes on the bottom stone.The broiler bake just seems to cook the top faster,and brown the rim and cheese faster,or burn it like in some pics here and there if I am not careful.

I still have some figuring out to do.I can still make decent 5-7 minute pies and lower times as well,all depends if I use the broiler to finish the baking.If I had the heat or a surface that could cook the bottom rim around 1 minute or so,the broiler end bake could possibly finish it in under 2 minutes in theory.

That said,sometimes I just launch a pie onto the bottom stone and leave it there until done.Might take 5 minutes but it comes out when I visually see its done to my liking.Its going to take a few experiments to get the technique down on this oven to make 3-4 minute pies Consistently.
 :)








-Bill


 

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