Author Topic: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA  (Read 89679 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #325 on: September 11, 2011, 08:10:05 PM »
Peter,Is there no sugar used in this sauce?

I know some places will use a little.Just wondering.

Bill,

No sugar is shown in the video as being added to the sauce. Remember, however, that Luigi uses Stanislaus fresh-pack tomatoes that are naturally sweeter than most canned tomatoes that are not of the fresh-pack variety.

Peter


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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #326 on: September 11, 2011, 08:33:23 PM »
Mike,

I'm glad that the numbers worked out for you. I tried my best to eyeball and weigh the ingredients carefully but when you are working from volume measurements taken visually from a video, you can't always be sure that the weighings are correct. It would be interesting to know if Luigi weighs any of his ingredients. I would think that it would make sense to make up a standardized seasoning mix for the pizza sauce using weights, but for the fresh basil, which would be added at the end as shown in the video. The only thing we saw weighed in the video was the dough balls.

I am pretty certain that Luigi uses the same grated Parmesan for the sauce as is put on the tables of his pizzeria for his patrons. That would be a foodservice quality grated Parmesan cheese. A typical Kraft grated Parmesan would be a reasonable substitute in a home settiing. Adding a better quality Parmesan cheese would be an improvement but it might have a different flavor profile over the inexpensive Parmesan pizza that Luigi no doubt uses.

I hope that the sauce tastes as well on the pizza as out of the bowl.

Peter

Peter,

I really need to buy one of those small digital scales for small measurements below 1 gram. That's the main reason I had to round the numbers up except for the black pepper, which I basically eyeballed using 1/8 tsp which still might not be accurate.

As far as the Parmesan goes, I actually used a local brand, Marin Cheese Co., and is in fact grated Pecorino Romano which has a slightly more intense flavor. But I also have the Kraft on hand which I'll try with the next batch. I like the idea of a seasoning mix for the sauce and since you already posted the numbers previously, it'll be easy to measure and add to the sauce.

Let me see if I can put together a Baker's Percent version of it, using the sauce amount as a 100% value?!  :-\
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #327 on: September 11, 2011, 08:35:04 PM »
Peter,Is there no sugar used in this sauce?

I know some places will use a little.Just wondering.

Mike,If you can,let me know how the sauce tastes the next day or 3 if you keep it in the fridge that long.
Im curious if the acidity changes much or if the flavors increase.
 :)


Bill,

I am sure I can, and will, let you know how the sauce is tomorrow and three days from now.  ;D

I'm also certain that the flavor will somewhat intensify once the herbs and spices have released their full potential.
Mike

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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #328 on: September 12, 2011, 12:19:40 AM »
Peter,

I really need to buy one of those small digital scales for small measurements below 1 gram. That's the main reason I had to round the numbers up except for the black pepper, which I basically eyeballed using 1/8 tsp which still might not be accurate.


My digital scale does not do fractions of grams, just whole numbers.  What scale can any of you recommend that is good for measuring . (point) measurements in grams?  I just wing it and I do pretty well but I'd rather be more accurate with a scale than can do fractions.  What I mean is if it calls for .25 that's 1/4 of a gram. 

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #329 on: September 12, 2011, 12:44:10 AM »
My digital scale does not do fractions of grams, just whole numbers.  What scale can any of you recommend that is good for measuring . (point) measurements in grams?  I just wing it and I do pretty well but I'd rather be more accurate with a scale than can do fractions.  What I mean is if it calls for .25 that's 1/4 of a gram. 

PE101,

I just bought this one...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012LOQUQ

Measures as low as 0.01 grams. That's probably as low as it gets.

Mike

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Online norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #330 on: September 12, 2011, 09:04:35 AM »
I tried to figure out how to blend KASL with an all-purpose flour to get a targeted protein of 13.5% on the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at  http://foodsim.toastguard.com/ and I am not still getting how to work the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator to mix flours to get the right protein. 

This is the formula I did on the Expanded Dough Calculating Tool. I used a bowl residue of 1.5%  Now if I can just figure out how to use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator, I guess I will try a Luigiís #1 attempt.  I guess I will also add a pinch or a little more of Vitamin C to the dough formula.

Norma

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #331 on: September 12, 2011, 09:32:45 AM »
Norma, to hit a target of 13.5% protein for that formulation (308 g total flour)

253 g KASL
55 g Generic All Purpose Flour

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #332 on: September 12, 2011, 09:53:44 AM »
Norma, to hit a target of 13.5% protein for that formulation (308 g total flour)

253 g KASL
55 g Generic All Purpose Flour

Scott,

Thanks so much for helping me understand how to use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator.  :) I was making it harder than it is.  I wasn't sure what to do with the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator.  I kept putting different numbers in different places and was getting all fouled up.  :-D

Norma

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #333 on: September 12, 2011, 10:01:17 AM »
No problem Norma :) It's not the most intuitive of calculators- it took me a few minutes to figure out as well.


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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #334 on: September 12, 2011, 10:10:23 AM »
No problem Norma :) It's not the most intuitive of calculators- it took me a few minutes to figure out as well.

Scott,

I never tried to use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator before, and I sure didnít understand where the numbers were supposed to be put.  I could find the kinds of flours I wanted to mix, and had the first mass of the total amount of flour to be used in the right place, but didnít know where to add the targeted 13.5%  protein.  I guess since my understanding of math is limited, that is why I had all the problems.  :-D  At least now I will be able to understand how to use Novemberís tool.

Thanks again!  :)

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #335 on: September 12, 2011, 12:45:54 PM »
scott123, thanks for helping Norma on this one, especially since I offered to assist her in the use of the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator.

Norma, since you have the King Arthur all-purpose flour, do you want to take a stab at coming up with the numbers using that flour instead of a generic all-purpose flour?

A couple of other points about the tool. The two pull-down menus are the same and you can select the two ingredients using either sequence (but keep the A-B blocks below in order). If it so happens that the ingredients you are using are not listed in the pull-down menus, you can enter the protein values in the two % blocks below the pull-down menus (you have to select the two blocks by checking them). In some cases, one of the ingredients might be listed in a pull-down menu and the other is not. In that case, you can use a combination of pull-down menu and one of the % blocks.

Peter

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #336 on: September 12, 2011, 01:24:05 PM »
PE101,

I just bought this one...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012LOQUQ

Measures as low as 0.01 grams. That's probably as low as it gets.



Mike, thank you very much for the link to that scale.  That price is really low too in addition to the increments the scale can do.  I will buy that one. 

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #337 on: September 12, 2011, 01:39:43 PM »
If Mike tells us that he likes the clone Luigi pizza sauce on an actual pizza, I should be able to come up with a set of baker's percents for the Luigi clone sauce. I didn't think to convert my ingredient weights to volume measurements but, had I chosen to do so, my numbers would most likely have differed from those used by others with their specific set of ingredients, especially those from other suppliers. However, it does make sense for each person to do such conversions to simplify making the sauce in the future with the same ingredients, or for scaling purposes. This is one of those instances where, in a home setting, people are used to--and may prefer--volume measurements rather than weights, especially when the numbers are on the small side.

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #338 on: September 12, 2011, 02:06:23 PM »
Mike, thank you very much for the link to that scale.  That price is really low too in addition to the increments the scale can do.  I will buy that one. 

PE101,

I looked at other scales, too, but this one got really good reviews and for the price it's probably worth it. Also comes with a 10 year warranty.
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #339 on: September 12, 2011, 02:24:14 PM »
If Mike tells us that he likes the clone Luigi pizza sauce on an actual pizza, I should be able to come up with a set of baker's percents for the Luigi clone sauce. I didn't think to convert my ingredient weights to volume measurements but, had I chosen to do so, my numbers would most likely have differed from those used by others with their specific set of ingredients, especially those from other suppliers. However, it does make sense for each person to do such conversions to simplify making the sauce in the future with the same ingredients, or for scaling purposes. This is one of those instances where, in a home setting, people are used to--and may prefer--volume measurements rather than weights, especially when the numbers are on the small side.

Peter

Peter,

Tried the sauce last night on two pies. The sauce is dynamite. It had a bunch of hours, from 9am to around 8pm, to mature a little and the taste was exceptional.

However, I noticed one thing though over the course of the day...the sauce got a little thicker each time I checked and by the time I used it I had to add 1/4 cup of water to thin it out. Maybe that should be taken into consideration when coming up with a Baker's Percent conversion. More testing might also be in order.

But all that aside, the sauce is extremely good. Even my neighbor and his girlfriend, who received the first Luigi clone (Mona Lisa) last night, commented on it..."...sweet, nice touch of garlic, oregano and basil. Very fresh tasting."

Now to the pies themselves.

Crust was very good. I still need to get the thinness right but it had a nice structure, was easily foldable and made the same sounds you can hear in the video when the neighbor's GF bit into it. While I was over there, he put the Luigi video on his laptop to compare and noted that it was an identical pie except for the thickness of my crust, which was too much.

The bottom of the crust was nicely browned with a few dark spots and had a really nice crunch when you bit into it. The rim was also moderately browned compared to the pizza that came out of the pro oven. I need to go easier on the cheese, though, which brings up the question of how much Luigi actually uses, at least in his video.

I will make a few tweaks and see what happens with the next bake. The sauce, however, is pretty much set.

Mike

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #340 on: September 12, 2011, 03:55:09 PM »
Mike,

It looks like you are well on your way.

I think what you experienced with the sauce is the effect of gelling. That is usually because of the garlic. I remember reading about this phenomenon at the PMQ Think Tank, so I did a PMQTT search and found the thread on this subject at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9106&hilit=. Originally, I thought that the problem was the use of fresh garlic but if you click on the Stanislaus link at the end of the abovereferenced thread, which was posted by Steve Rouse of Stanislaus, you will see that the problem can occur with many forms of garlic, including dry forms. You can perhaps get around the problem by either adding the garlic powder just before you are ready to use the sauce (which may yield a less pronounced flavor impact as a result) or nuke it in the microwave for a bit to see if that solves the problem. If the solution ends up with the need to add more water, then that is what you do. However, because of the uniqueness of this problem, I would not change the formulation of the sauce from a bakerís percent standpoint.

You mentioned that when your friendís girlfriend bit into the crust, there was the same sound as in the Luigi video. I used to think that that was the real sound until scott r told us, at Reply 22 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14087.msg141782/topicseen.html#msg141782, that often the crunch sound is dubbed in during post production.

On the matter of the amount of cheese, you will have to experiment with that. It looks like Luigi free throws the cheese and toppings so you will have to try to emulate what you see in the video, and note the amount of cheese (you may have to build your pizza on the scale, using the tare feature as necessary). It would also help if someone purchased a basic cheese pizza from Luigiís place, or maybe one with pepperoni, and weigh the pizza (and note the number of pepperoni slices if a pepperoni pizza is purchased). We believe we know the weight of the dough (18 ounces), and we can estimate the weight loss during baking (which you might test sometimes even in your home oven), so the total pizza weight might help us zero in on the amounts of sauce and cheese to use. If your clone sauce is like Luigiís, then that might help in the analysis. To get closer on the sauce and the proper hydration, you would perhaps have to play around with the Stanislaus tomatoes that Luigi uses, as shown in photos that have been referenced earlier in this thread.

I am not surprised by the flavor impact of the garlic and oregano. In the video, these ingredients appear to be used in larger quantities relative to the other sauce ingredients. Also, when I did my clone tests for the Papa Johnís pizza sauce, I saw that garlic and oregano were much more noticeable in the sauce the day after the sauce was made than when they were first added to the sauce. That taught me to go a bit lighter on the oregano and garlic powder.

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #341 on: September 12, 2011, 04:27:09 PM »
Quote
I think what you experienced with the sauce is the effect of gelling. That is usually because of the garlic. I remember reading about this phenomenon at the PMQ Think Tank, so I did a PMQTT search and found the thread on this subject at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9106&hilit=. Originally, I thought that the problem was the use of fresh garlic but if you click on the Stanislaus link at the end of the abovereferenced thread, which was posted by Steve Rouse of Stanislaus, you will see that the problem can occur with many forms of garlic, including dry forms. You can perhaps get around the problem by either adding the garlic powder just before you are ready to use the sauce (which may yield a less pronounced flavor impact as a result) or nuke it in the microwave for a bit to see if that solves the problem. If the solution ends up with the need to add more water, then that is what you do. However, because of the uniqueness of this problem, I would not change the formulation of the sauce from a bakerís percent standpoint.

Peter,

Interesting tidbit about the garlic. Just finished reading the post on the PMQ board. I'll try nuking the garlic next time and see what happens. If that doesn't work then water has to be used. At first I thought it was the Pecorino Romano I used that thickened the sauce over the course of the day. Maybe both, garlic and cheese?

Quote
You mentioned that when your friendís girlfriend bit into the crust, there was the same sound as in the Luigi video. I used to think that that was the real sound until scott r told us, at Reply 22 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14087.msg141782/topicseen.html#msg141782, that often the crunch sound is dubbed in during post production.

I've read that, too, but it really did sound like in the video.  ;D

Quote
On the matter of the amount of cheese, you will have to experiment with that. It looks like Luigi free throws the cheese and toppings so you will have to try to emulate what you see in the video, and note the amount of cheese (you may have to build your pizza on the scale, using the tare feature as necessary). It would also help if someone purchased a basic cheese pizza from Luigiís place, or maybe one with pepperoni, and weigh the pizza (and note the number of pepperoni slices if a pepperoni pizza is purchased). We believe we know the weight of the dough (18 ounces), and we can estimate the weight loss during baking (which you might test sometimes even in your home oven), so the total pizza weight might help us zero in on the amounts of sauce and cheese to use. If your clone sauce is like Luigiís, then that might help in the analysis. To get closer on the sauce and the proper hydration, you would perhaps have to play around with the Stanislaus tomatoes that Luigi uses, as shown in photos that have been referenced earlier in this thread.

It's funny that you mentioned to count the pepperoni slices. I've done that yesterday using the video for the Mona Lisa pie and also for the Meat Lover's. If I counted correctly and they showed all the pepperoni slices, the number hovered around 20-22 slices per 18" pie, although some shots were obscured by Luigi's hands. It could be more or less pepperoni.

Regarding the cheese, I tried to eyeball it yesterday and adjusted the amount to a 16" pie but I think it was still a bit too much. I'll keep experimenting with various amounts.

I have never used Stanislaus products. I would have to check with Armando and find out if he can order a couple of 7/11 cans for me. If not, which product would you suggest comes close? 6in1s is what I used yesterday.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 04:32:16 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #342 on: September 12, 2011, 05:08:19 PM »
I have never used Stanislaus products. I would have to check with Armando and find out if he can order a couple of 7/11 cans for me. If not, which product would you suggest comes close? 6in1s is what I used yesterday.

Mike,

The only Stanislaus tomatoes that I saw in photos attributed to Luigi's are the Full-Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree and the 7/11 Ground Tomatoes (http://www.stanislaus.com/products/real-italian-products/from-scratch-products#11). We don't really know how Luigi is using those products. It could be individually or in combination (see, for example, the robozig PMQTT post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4434&p=24786&hilit=#p24767), and possibly Luigi thins out the sauce with water even though Stanislaus frowns upon doing this. There is nothing in the video to suggest that Luigi thins out the tomatoes with water.

The closest Stanislaus tomato product to the Escalon 6-and-1s are the Stanislaus Tomato Magic Ground Tomatoes (http://www.stanislaus.com/products/real-italian-products/from-scratch-products#Magic). However, the Stanislaus website says that the 7/11 Ground Tomato product "contains bits of skin and more tomato pectin (for a homemade texture) than does Tomato Magic." If you look at the Stanislaus Nutrition Information for the three tomato products, especially the serving size weights, you will see that they are not of the same consistency, and that #10 cans of the three products will have different weights. I don't know how to advise you on which Stanislaus product to locate and use.

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #343 on: September 12, 2011, 05:22:38 PM »
Mike,

The only Stanislaus tomatoes that I saw in photos attributed to Luigi's are the Full-Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree and the 7/11 Ground Tomatoes (http://www.stanislaus.com/products/real-italian-products/from-scratch-products#11). We don't really know how Luigi is using those products. It could be individually or in combination (see, for example, the robozig PMQTT post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4434&p=24786&hilit=#p24767), and possibly Luigi thins out the sauce with water even though Stanislaus frowns upon doing this. There is nothing in the video to suggest that Luigi thins out the tomatoes with water.

The closest Stanislaus tomato product to the Escalon 6-and-1s are the Stanislaus Tomato Magic Ground Tomatoes (http://www.stanislaus.com/products/real-italian-products/from-scratch-products#Magic). However, the Stanislaus website says that the 7/11 Ground Tomato product "contains bits of skin and more tomato pectin (for a homemade texture) than does Tomato Magic." If you look at the Stanislaus Nutrition Information for the three tomato products, especially the serving size weights, you will see that they are not of the same consistency, and that #10 cans of the three products will have different weights. I don't know how to advise you on which Stanislaus product to locate and use.

Peter

Peter,

I just did a quick search on the Chowhound board and 6in1's and Stanislaus were both mentioned. But I found this reply interesting:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/366213#2251891

Btw, Pizzamking.com was also mentioned:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/366213#2248536

Restaurant depot carries the 7/11 which means I might have to go through my pizza guy in order to get them.
Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #344 on: September 12, 2011, 05:59:57 PM »
Peter,Is there no sugar used in this sauce?

I know some places will use a little.Just wondering.

Mike,If you can,let me know how the sauce tastes the next day or 3 if you keep it in the fridge that long.
Im curious if the acidity changes much or if the flavors increase.
 :)


Bill,

To report back on the acidity of the sauce...no changes since yesterday. There's no noticeable increase of the acidity level whatsoever, which is good. The sauce has still the same slightly sweet, fresh flavor.
Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #345 on: September 12, 2011, 06:58:35 PM »

Norma, since you have the King Arthur all-purpose flour, do you want to take a stab at coming up with the numbers using that flour instead of a generic all-purpose flour?

A couple of other points about the tool. The two pull-down menus are the same and you can select the two ingredients using either sequence (but keep the A-B blocks below in order). If it so happens that the ingredients you are using are not listed in the pull-down menus, you can enter the protein values in the two % blocks below the pull-down menus (you have to select the two blocks by checking them). In some cases, one of the ingredients might be listed in a pull-down menu and the other is not. In that case, you can use a combination of pull-down menu and one of the % blocks.

Peter

Peter,

I took a stab at the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator using KASL and King Arthur all-purpose flour.  I got 222.084 grams of KASL and 86.366 grams of King Arthur all-purpose flour.

Thanks for the other pointers on how to use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator.  Iíll see if the future if I can figure out how to use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator if a flour isnít listed. 

Norma

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #346 on: September 12, 2011, 07:03:05 PM »
Mike,

I agree with Peter, your Luigi's clone does look a lot like a Luigi's pizza!  :)  Nice job.  :chef:

Norma

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #347 on: September 12, 2011, 07:11:07 PM »
I tried to mixed my dough like Luigi did in the video, but the only difference was I did rehydrate the ADY in a little warm water before adding it to the rest of the water. I mixed in my Kitchen Aid mixer on speed one and two.  The dough was somewhat sticky after mixing, but I left it sit for about 10 minutes in the container, with the lid on.  The reason I did that was when mixing dough at market it is always sticky coming out of the mixer. Until I scale all the dough it does become less sticky.  I was thinking maybe Luigi might do the same thing as letting the dough sit a little before scaling and balling. I didnít see that on the video. I sure donít know if that is what he does, but I found my doughs become less sticky if they sit for as little as10 minutes.  The dough did ball well and it didnít feel like 65% hydration.  I didnít oil the dough ball, but just floured it.

Dough ball right after it was mixed and then 7 Ĺ hrs. later.

I did use KASL and GM all-purpose flour in the formula.

I will be using some Stanislaus Super Heavy Pizza sauce tomorrow.  I am not sure of how much ingredients to add to the Super Heavy Pizza sauce, since I will only be using enough sauce for one pizza.  I also will only be making a cheese pizza.

Norma
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 07:16:15 PM by norma427 »

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #348 on: September 12, 2011, 07:35:30 PM »
Norma,

Dough looks great! I'm anxious to see the outcome in your market oven.  :chef:
Mike

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #349 on: September 12, 2011, 08:01:19 PM »
Thanks for letting me know about the sauce Mike.

Btw,did you taste it cold,straight outta the fridge or warmed up?
 :)

-Bill