Author Topic: First Attempt - YUM!!!  (Read 14176 times)

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Offline JimBob

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First Attempt - YUM!!!
« on: June 21, 2005, 05:49:21 PM »
OK, here it is....

I used Pizzanapoletana's dough recipe and 007bond-jb's sauce recipe.  The only thing that was different in the process was the autolyse period (due to work it was 24 hours before I finished the dough) and secondly (due to time constraints) I refrigerated the dough overnight once I reached the point that it was supposed to be cooked.

True Sicilian pizza is made with fine semolina flour.

I can give you a cross-mix of roman pizza and Sicilian pizza derived by my e-friends Gabriele of Pizzarium in Rome and Vincenzo of his father-in-law bakery in Caltanisetta, Sicily.

It involves a very time and effort consuming technique, but the results will be the best you will have in US.

1000g Fine Semolina Flour
750g Water
7g IDY
25g Sea Salt
50g EVO

In the morning when you wake up, mix the following as to make a poolish:
750g Semolina flour
750g Water (cold)
2g IDY
Then put everything in the fridge for 10-11 hours.


After that time, take it out of the fridge and add the remaining 250g Semolina and 5g IDY. mix well and when all the flour has been absorbed, add the salt and oil.

The dough at this point will be very sticky, but do not panic. Wait 15 minutes (covering the mixing bowl) and then "break" the dough and mix again. You will notice that the dough will seams like is drying a bit.

It may be necessary to repeat this process a couple of times until the dough will become less sticky.

Let it rest about an hour, then divide in portions of approximately 500-600g, and let it rest again 40 minutes to an hour in a warm place.

Once it has risen, flatten the dough, grease the baking tray, put the flat dough on it, put the topping and bake immediately.

Let me know the results...


Sure here ya go
1 28oz can 6-1 crushed tomatoes
2tbs REAL UNPASTEURIZED unsalted butter
1 small yellow onion finely diced
2 cloves of garlic pressed (or as many as you like)
1 tbs fresh chopped basil
2 tbs fresh chopped oregano
1 teas fresh thyme
1/4 teas fresh ground pepper
1/4 teas salt
1/4 to 1/2 cup good Italian dry red wine
saute onions in butter till clear (10min)
add wine reduce by at least 1/2 volume 1/4 is best DO NOT BOIL!!!
add garlic & herbs salt & pepper simmer for 10min.
add tomatoes & simmer for 2 to 4 hours (the longer it simmers the sweeter it be)
simmer = under 200deg AGAIN DO NOT BOIL if your stove is to hot use your oven
stir every 15min
 I also add 1/4 cup diced yellow bell peppers cause I like em
To make it more like true Sicilian would be make your own wine from the grapes you grew, As well as the tomatoes, That were watered from your Sicilian water well. OK!
1 more thing don't put olive oil in your sauce pour it on your finished pie if you like oil

JimBob


Offline scott r

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2005, 03:55:28 AM »
Please describe the dough.  how did it taste, how was the texture.  Although I am not big on precooked sauces, this pie really does look amazing!

Offline JimBob

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2005, 06:23:31 AM »
Hey Scott,  I've been fighting a nasty cold for a couple of weeks now and have not been up to writing much but I'll give it a shot. 

Before taking the first bite my first thoughts were that this pizza would taste like a yeasty pizza hut pie that I've become accustomed to.  I was pleasantly surprised though, the crust had the same bite/texture as a thick pizza hut type pizza but the taste was different.  There were no signs of a yeast flavor but rather a mild bread flavor that blended nicely with the other characteristics of the pie.  The edges of the pizza had the crunchy exterior and the pie was topped with low moisture motz, green peppers, pepperoni, sausage and finally the sauce.  The sauce was fantastic to say the least,  not tasting like spaghetti sauce or marinara but more like a full bodied pizza sauce.  The sauce was bold tasting and topping the pizza with it in dollops rather than a layer across the whole top added to the dynamics of the pizza's flavors.  With the sauce applied in this fashion I was able to take bites that contained just the crust and toppings and then bites that included the sauce, neither of which were overpowering in any way.

My only dislike of the entire process was the stickiness of the dough.  Even after a number of 15 min. rests and re-mixes the dough seemed to remain overly sticky for my tastes.  On the next batch I will lower the hydration level slightly to overcome this obstacle.
JimBob

Offline scott r

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2005, 12:35:08 PM »
jim bob, thanks for letting me know.   In your opinion, did the crust taste or feel better than if you would have used a standard new york dough for the pizza?

Offline JimBob

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2005, 12:53:21 PM »
I would say that it did taste different, I'm not sure how I would describe the difference but the word "richer" would be as close as I can think of at the moment.  I would image that a regular NY style dough would bring the flavor closer to the Pizza Hut taste.  Another example would be the flavor comparison between a piece of white bread and a piece of Italian bread, there is definitely more flavor.
JimBob

Offline 007bond-jb

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2005, 12:54:22 PM »
Yes YUM!!! good lookin pie JimBob. I had a batch of my sauce in the fridge  but my teenage son ate it all the other night on some pasta. I guess I'll have to make another batch for friday nites pizza blast. Here's a tip the sauce gets better if aged in the fridge for a week.

Offline steverino

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2005, 05:48:55 PM »
Jim Bob -
I'm brand new to the forums, and I've gotta start by saying your pizza looks beautiful!
It looks very much like the crust of a couple Detroit favorites,  Buddy's (recognized by Food Network as one of the best in the country) and Loui's (my personal fave).

A few questions:

What type of pan did you use?
What temp did you cook it at, and for how long?
Did you put the pan on a stone?

I guess I'm basically curious about the whole cooking procedure.

Could you elaborate?  I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Steve

Offline canadave

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2005, 11:13:49 PM »
I'm going to attempt this tomorrow.  Novice question: is "semolina" the same as "semolina flour"?  I bought some "semolina" at the local supermarket, it looks sort of like a yellow flour, but it's not quite as "dust-like" as normal flour.

Offline abc

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2005, 11:45:32 PM »
I'm going to attempt this tomorrow.  Novice question: is "semolina" the same as "semolina flour"?  I bought some "semolina" at the local supermarket, it looks sort of like a yellow flour, but it's not quite as "dust-like" as normal flour.



Semolina should mean semolina flour... which like you said is yellow and very coarse like cornmeal would you agree.

I think what should be used is Durham flour, which i think is sometimes called fine ground semolina flour.


oh there's a thread:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1875.0.html
« Last Edit: December 14, 2005, 11:50:43 PM by abc »

Offline canadave

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2005, 11:41:33 AM »
OK, poolish was prepped last night, now I'm ready to continue.  One last question before I start...what does "break the dough and mix again" mean in the instructions??


Offline abc

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2005, 11:54:57 AM »
i gather it just means punch down and ....

Offline canadave

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2005, 12:14:36 PM »
break = punch down, got it....

Offline canadave

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2005, 12:41:39 PM »
Holy smokes...."sticky" isn't the word.  This stuff has the consistency of cream of wheat!  :o  Is it really going to solidify at some point into something resembling solid dough???

Offline canadave

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2005, 12:54:23 PM »
OK, I must be completely out of my head.  I've just gone through the second "break the dough and mix again" attempt, and it's still a pretty viscous wet substance; when I lift the dough hook, a bunch of it hangs onto the hook, and slowly slides down off it due to gravity.  I can't believe this is going to turn out as dough! :0  Am I supposed to be mixing this for longer times or something?

Offline canadave

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2005, 01:33:17 PM »
Hmmmm....added a few more handfuls of flour, and on the fourth go-round, it seems to be at least dough-ish.  Still pretty wet though.  Are we sure about these numbers for flour/water?

Offline canadave

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2005, 05:36:30 PM »
Well, I'm sorry, but I've gotta give this recipe a thumbs down.  Problems:

--the dough never rose in the slightest (my yeast is fine, I just used it a week ago)
--the dough was WAY too wet and sticky, even after I broke with the recipe and added a bunch more semolina flour to try to dry it out a bit
--the taste was bland and cardboardish
--the 500-600g of final dough never came close to filling the pan to a depth of 1.5cm as it was apparently supposed to

Maybe it was just me and the way I prepped it--I'm willing to entertain that notion.  I'm willing to give it one more shot, if someone (either the original poster or someone else) would like to give more detailed instructions.

What temp are we baking at, and for how long?  What speed is everything supposed to be mixed at, and for how long?  Does the pan with the flattened dough go onto a pizza stone?  What is the final yield supposed to be (i.e. 1, 2, or 3 pizzas of a certain size)?  We need some more info.....

Dave

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2005, 07:43:46 PM »
Dave,

Because both you and JimBob had problems with the hydration, and since curiosity got the better of me, I decided to take a look at Marco's formulation. From a baker's percent standpoint, the formulation breaks down as follows:

100%, Semolina flour. 1000g.
75%, Water, 750 g.
0.7%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 7 g.
2.5%, Sea salt, 25 g.
5%, EVO, 50 g.
Total dough weight = 1832 g. (64.62 oz., or a bit over 4 lbs.)

The formulation is stated in a manner as to represent a combination of the poolish and more flour and yeast, sea salt and oil. The poolish is standard in that it includes equal amounts of semolina and water (i.e., 100% hydration) plus commercial yeast (IDY). At 75%, the hydration is high by our standards for pizza dough, but it is somewhere between the hydration used for a baguette dough and a ciabatta dough. A dough at that hydration should be reasonably manageable but it may require that you use a baker's bench knife or something equivalent to it to handle the wet dough so that it doesn't stick all over your fingers and hands. The error that most home bakers make when making intentionally very high hydration doughs--with ciabatta dough being a very good example--is to add more flour in an effort to overcome the high degree of wetness. That's an urge that is to be resisted. I don't know how such doughs are handled in Italy, but I would personally use a baker's bench knife to turn and manipulate the dough on a lightly-floured work surface. Although Marco doesn't indicate in his instructions, I suspect that the dough is made by mixing by hand in a large bowl and shaped on a work bench. He does indicate that the dough should be divided into 500-600 gram amounts. If my math is correct, at 500 grams, that would come to almost 4 dough balls, each weighing a bit over a pound; at 600 grams, that comes to around 3 dough balls each weighing around 1.3 lbs. I could be wrong, but I would guess that a pan around 12" x 12", which is a standard size in the U.S., would suffice for one dough ball.

Sicilian pizzas are typically baked in properly seasoned, preferably dark square pans, although there is no reason why rectangular pans cannot be used (pizzatools.com sells both). I agree that it would help to know what size pan is best to use, to be sure that the correct depth of dough is achieved. A typical bake temperature in the U.S. is around 500 degrees F. As with any pizza dough, you bake it until the bottom crust is nice and brown (and crispy in this case) and the toppings are properly baked. I'm sure that there is a way of baking the pizza in its pan and on a stone, but I think the common way is to use only the pan.

Just looking at the formulation, I would expect the finished crust to have a nice open and airy crumb, because of the high hydration, and to be tender, because of the amount of oil used. The amounts of salt, yeast, and oil are perfectly normal. If you can manage the high hydration, and with a bit more information or clarification to fill the gaps, I think you should be able to get some pretty nice Sicilian pies.

Peter
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 09:52:25 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline canadave

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2005, 08:21:58 PM »
Pete,

Thanks for the encouragement and for checking it out.  Good to know I'm not imagining things with the amounts.

I'm still not sure why the dough wouldn't rise, though.  It didn't rise so much as a millimeter.  And I'm still not sure exactly how long we're supposed to be mixing the concoction, and at what mixer speed (or if we're supposed to do it by hand, as you postulate.)

As far as the rest of it goes, I think I was okay (used a rectangular dark cookie pan, albeit slightly larger than 12"x12").  And the temp I used was 525 (which, all other things being equally ruined, actually seemed like about the right temperature--what I had in the pan, did bake rather well and evenly).

Your supposition of a baker's bench knife makes a lot of sense.  There's no way--NO way--that someone can manipulate that dough with that recipe otherwise...I refuse to believe it :)  I had more dough on my hands than in the pan!  :o

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2005, 08:58:38 PM »
Dave,

I was a bit puzzled by your comment about the dough not rising. But, unless you were making the dough in an igloo, there is plenty enough yeast in the recipe to make the dough rise at normal room temperature. Did you calculate the amount of yeast using conversion data or did you actually weigh the yeast? The 7 grams of IDY (total) is a full packet in the U.S. and is over 2 teaspoons. And did you do likewise with the sea salt? I estimate that 25 grams of sea salt is over 4 teaspoons. Since salt is a "regulator" of the fermentation process (a lot suppresses fermentation and little expedites it), maybe it was too much, especially this time of year where room temperatures are lower than normal. 

Peter
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 09:12:54 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline canadave

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Re: First Attempt - YUM!!!
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2005, 09:50:23 PM »
Uh, yeah....I did a simple conversion :)  I came out with about a teaspoon and a half of yeast, and about 4 teaspoons of salt.  I guess I must've been a bit short on the yeast, but I don't think that would cause it to completely fail to rise.  If anything, I'm willing to buy into your theory on the salt retarding the fermentation process.  Still, though...weird.