Author Topic: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps  (Read 36526 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ihavezippers

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 129
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2006, 12:25:59 AM »
Dinks,
have you dealt with Merlino?  I remember back in the winter at some point, I discovered them, but apparently they are not open to the public.  Peter contacted them and said he sensed some willingness to maybe do a one-time order, but it sounds like a lot of work and schmoozing is involved.

Anyhow, if you have dealt with them or know someone who does, please let me know.  Thanks for the post.


Offline dinks

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2006, 01:44:00 PM »
IHAVEZIPPERS:
  Good morning to you. Thank-you for your quick response. NO!!! I have never dealt with them before.  Their name appeared in my files only. I have further information about flours from provision wherehouses but I am unable to locate this paper. Howver my friend one name that appears in my head is DAWN FOODS In Seattle, Wash. The reason I did not list this in my post yesterday is because I could not find the pad that I had listed this info on just during the earlier part of this week. I get these senior moments quite frequently now due to my advanced age. I just located this info. Call them at 1 (800) 422-0547.  All TRUMPS flour is item #00287698 I do not know the price nor any of their rules about selling to the public. These warehouses have rules that I believe they :chef: :chef: are trying to discourage bizzz-nizzz.
   In any event If I can help you further please post. Good luck & have a nice day.

   ~DINKS.
 

Offline ihavezippers

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 129
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2006, 10:23:47 PM »
Hey Dinks,
I have also contacted Dawn Foods on two occassions.  One time they completely refused me, the other time they said they would sell to me if I made an order with what I believe was a $250 minimum.  So, it appears unless someone on the board knows someone there, we will not be getting anything from them.

If you can think of anyone else or know of anyone, let me know.  I'd even be willing to drive for it, say to Oregon or Vancouver, B.C. (although that might get hairy crossing the border with a 50lb bag of flour...how can you justify that?...I don't think the truth that I am a pizza enthusiast will carry me very far).

Thanks

Offline dinks

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2006, 01:14:26 PM »
IHAVEZIPPERS:
  Good morning. I just finishished speaking to DAWN FOODS Customer service dep't. I spoke with Mz. Paul.
 I asked if there would be any way that you can just go in as a member of the public & purchase 1- 50 pound bag of "ALL-TRUMPS flour with-out any hitch. She said to me "YES"!!!! just call them first & place your order at 2 hours before. Here is the item again #00287698. The cost is $12.98. No checks, use cash or credit card. Any problems ask to speak to Mz. Paul.   Now you do not need to drive anywhere.

1 (800) 422-0547

   Good luck & have a nice day.

   ~DINKS.

Offline Jack

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 404
  • Location: WA
  • Pizza; it's what's for dinner, breakfast........
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2006, 11:48:43 AM »
IHZ,

Just curious if/why you feel the All Trumphs would be better than Pendleton's High Gluten.  I'm just about out of flour and was planning on grabbing a 50 lb. bag of Pentleton's at C&C early next week.  While it will be a vast improvement over the 3% AP flour I've been using, if the All Trumps is significantly better, I should wait and go for it instead.

Thanks in advance,

Jack

Offline ihavezippers

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 129
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2006, 12:38:57 AM »
Dinks,
I love you.  Thanks a lot.  I wonder why the sudden change of heart at Dawn Foods?


IHAVEZIPPERS:
  Good morning. I just finishished speaking to DAWN FOODS Customer service dep't. I spoke with Mz. Paul.
 I asked if there would be any way that you can just go in as a member of the public & purchase 1- 50 pound bag of "ALL-TRUMPS flour with-out any hitch. She said to me "YES"!!!! just call them first & place your order at 2 hours before. Here is the item again #00287698. The cost is $12.98. No checks, use cash or credit card. Any problems ask to speak to Mz. Paul.   Now you do not need to drive anywhere.

1 (800) 422-0547

   Good luck & have a nice day.

   ~DINKS.

Offline ihavezippers

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 129
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2006, 12:59:19 AM »
So after doing a little research, it appears Dawn Food Products has an exclusive distributorship of King Arthur flour?  If this is so, I am wondering whether I should still stick with the All Trumps or try and get my hands on some KASL?

It seems like All Trumps is certainly more commonly available than KASL.
Does anyone know if you can indeed get KASL from Dawn Food Products?

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22122
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2006, 08:59:24 AM »
ihavezippers,

There are fans of both flours, so whether you decide on one or the other will end up being a personal decision. Both flours are very popular and their specs, and particularly protein content, are just about the same, as you will note here:

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/4a1eb4311b0be08b2b590b39ac3f2c77/download/Primary%20sell%20sheet.pdf, and

http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/pflour.asp#50111 (click on Microsoft Word Specification Documents).

At the GM site you will note two All Trumps flours, one that is bromated and bleached and one that is non-bromated and unbleached. Some bakers prefer the bromated version because it helps strengthen the dough, especially those that are proofed before baking (you can see the Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#P, under “Potassium Bromate”, for details on bromates). The KASL is neither bromated or bleached.

The Dawn Foods location near me in the Dallas area carries KASL. Not all distribution locations, even within the same company, carry all of the same items. So, it will pay to ask if you are interested in the KASL over the All Trumps.

Peter

Offline Harv

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 51
  • Did someone say pizza?
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2006, 01:27:47 PM »
Just received my 50# bag of KASL today from Dutch Valley Foods.  Ordered it yesterday and it arrived today by noon.  $17.84 for the flour, $15.18 shipping.  On the phone yesterday the rep told me a distributer in my area so next time I can avoid the shipping charge.

Offline jawjatek

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2006, 08:13:51 PM »
I noticed the KA bakers catalog and website lists 3 lb bags of King Arthur Sir Lancelot high-gluten flour. Thought home bakers like me might  find this useful; forgive me if this is already known. I ordered 2 bags to try out - I usually use 00 Caputo or KA Italian style, because I am trying to duplicate the pizze I remember from living in Italy 3 years.  :)HTH


Offline ihavezippers

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 129
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2006, 11:32:58 PM »
ihavezippers,

There are fans of both flours, so whether you decide on one or the other will end up being a personal decision. Both flours are very popular and their specs, and particularly protein content, are just about the same, as you will note here:

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/4a1eb4311b0be08b2b590b39ac3f2c77/download/Primary%20sell%20sheet.pdf, and

http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/pflour.asp#50111 (click on Microsoft Word Specification Documents).

At the GM site you will note two All Trumps flours, one that is bromated and bleached and one that is non-bromated and unbleached. Some bakers prefer the bromated version because it helps strengthen the dough, especially those that are proofed before baking (you can see the Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#P, under “Potassium Bromate”, for details on bromates). The KASL is neither bromated or bleached.

The Dawn Foods location near me in the Dallas area carries KASL. Not all distribution locations, even within the same company, carry all of the same items. So, it will pay to ask if you are interested in the KASL over the All Trumps.

Peter


Peter, thanks as always for your help.  The fact that the All Trumps is bromated, with the potassium bromate link you gave me from the glossary, has made me less interested in it.  I am not sure if I trust the American Baking Association or whatever the organization was, given there conflict of interest there.  Is there a strong difference in between bromated and nonbromated?

Given KASL's fantastic rep on this board, that will be my first choice if given a choice. 

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22122
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2006, 05:00:59 PM »
ihavezippers,

I have had little experience comparing high-gluten flours in bromated and non-bromated versions, but if you have reservations about using bromated flours, I would go with KASL or even a non-bromated version of the All Trumps if you can find it. For some additional information on bromated flour, see http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi?read=24141.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 29, 2006, 05:04:33 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3075
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2006, 01:43:10 AM »
I did a shootout tonight with two lehmann dough batches.  Unfortunately I am out of all trumps for now, but I have my general mills full strength which is the bread flour equivalent of all trumps.   There is no question about it, the general mills flour destroyed the KASL when we did our taste tests.  Both batches were mixed with identical processing, spent four days in the fridge, and cooked for about two minutes.  The only difference is that the KASL batch was 65%hydration and the full strength was 64%.  Both batches of dough felt like they were hydrated the exact same amount with those numbers which made sense since the General mills flour had less protein. 

The KASL was much chewier and the full strength reminded me a lot of Caputo, but with a little less flavor.  The General Mills dough was fluffy and soft inside, but crispy on the outside, while the KASL required more work to chew and was more uniform throughout.  There was no distinct crispy layer, then soft layer and I really missed it.  The other good news is that while the full strength flour produces results that are very similar to a caputo textured pie, it is much more forgiving and would be better for beginners.  It also performs equally well at high temps and low temps (unlike caputo).

Next shootout,  general mills full strength vs. king arthur bread flour.

Offline abc

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 193
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2006, 08:15:10 PM »
Peter, thanks as always for your help.  The fact that the All Trumps is bromated, with the potassium bromate link you gave me from the glossary, has made me less interested in it.  I am not sure if I trust the American Baking Association or whatever the organization was, given there conflict of interest there.  Is there a strong difference in between bromated and nonbromated?

Given KASL's fantastic rep on this board, that will be my first choice if given a choice. 

i too was 'less interested' but i then decided to let try it out for the purpose of being able to find out if i can get my crust closer to NYC style pizza than KASL did.

It did.  This bromated bag is also the bag I see being delivered to nyc neighborhood pizzerias in the late mornings early in the week.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 08:16:41 PM by abc »

Offline Wallman

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 177
  • Age: 48
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2006, 03:23:57 PM »
I also recently did a comparison of KASL and GM All Trumps (bromated) that I purchased from Costco.  Each dough ball was forumlated using the basic 63% hydration Lehmann recipe. I used an autolyse (mixed flour and water, 10 minute rest, added IDY, Oil then salt).  The dough retarded in the fridge for about 40 hours and warmed to room temperature for 2 hours.

Both flours resulted in easy to strech skins -- continuing to confirm in my mind the benefits of autolyse. I thought the KASL was a little more extensible than the GMAT, but not significantly.  After baking on tiles in a 550 oven for about 7 minutes, I thought the GMAT was a little lighter for in flavor and coloring.  The GMAT seemed a little more tender  I personally preferred the flavor of the KASL pizza, just a little bit.  But my guests said they liked the GMAT better.  All in all, I would highly recommend either type of flour.   The differenences were very subtle. 

Since Costco stock the GMAT in a 25 lb bag for about $6.50, I'll likely start using that regulary when my last few lbs. of KASL runs out. 

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3075
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2006, 12:53:32 PM »
Wallman, thanks for the report.

Now I am starting to think that my strong preference for the General mills flour is because it is a Bread flour and not a high gluten flour.  It mkes sense that the lower protein flour is more suited to my lightning fast bakes.

Offline Domino Rich

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 3
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2009, 07:29:35 PM »
I talked to a local baker here in CT and was hoping that he would order me some KASL flour.   He said he would, but advised me to buy All Trumps instead.  He said that KA doesn't have their own mill and that they are a middle man for other mills.   He is willing to get me a 50# bag of All Trumps for $17.00,  sell me a trial of 5# of All Trumps for $1.60,  and/or is also willing to order me a 50# bag of KASL.    I think I will try out the A.Trumps first.

However,  anyone in the Hartford area that may want to go in on a KASL bag in the future with me, I might have a source.   The baker is going to find out the price for me on the KASL.   

The things we do to get the "perfect" home pizza......

Offline pcampbell

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 767
  • Age: 34
  • Location: VT & NJ
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2009, 07:50:29 PM »
if you do not have any issues with the bromated flour, I am sure All Trumps is a great bet for NY pizza.  I don't think anyone has said "this flour is no good", some just have issue with the potassium bromate. 

I think you are right, that KA does not have their own mills. 

The price here for KASL is about $20 for a 50# bag.  Seems reasonable.  All Trumps is about $15-16 here also, so you pay a little extra to get it non-bleached/bromated, and from a smaller employee owned company.
Patrick

Offline Polymandius

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 21
Re: King Arthur Sir LanceloT vs All Trumps
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2010, 02:55:16 PM »
[quote author=Pete-zza
pam,

Not knowing which ConAgra flour is carried by Costco's, I didn't follow the math closely enough to see whether one could get to a level of protein that might be considered "high gluten". I did a Google search and saw that Costco apparently sells a ConAgra flour called Full Power, which I understand to be a high-gluten flour. I was able to find several other brands of high-gluten flour at the ConAgra website, but not the Full Power brand. It's possible that the Full Power brand is sold only to private brand accounts, such as Costco's. If the flour you were talking about is the Full Power brand of high-gluten flour, I am at a loss to understand why the labeling information is not consistent with the flour in the bag. Your analysis correctly identifies the problem. But you aren't the only one to be perplexed. When I did a PMQ search to try to find more information on the ConAgra flours, I came upon this Q&A:
 

Peter
[/quote]

I've gone thru about half a bag of the Conagra "Full Power" flour with good results. I am usually looking for a fine textured crust with a nice crunchy bottom and soft interior.  The results are consistently good there. My curiosity got the better of me, so I contacted Conagra, asking about the protien contents of this and one other four they offer. Here is the response:

Thank you for your email concerning our flour.  

The protein content of the Full Power is 14% +/- .30%
The protein content on the High Altitude Hungarian All Purpose flour is 11% +/- 2.0%

I hope this is what you were looking for!  Thank you!

Sincerely,

Susan
Consumer Affairs



 

pizzapan