Author Topic: My first NY pizza  (Read 9890 times)

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Offline JBJazz88

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My first NY pizza
« on: July 09, 2005, 06:20:25 AM »
Hi Folks,
I have been reading the posts for the past few weeks and have learned quite a bit about the art of pizza making.
I started making pizzas years ago using all purpose flour with fair results. I mainly made the pizzas as a way to have fun with my kids and they surely enjoyed it. As the kids grew older i stopped making the pies and eventually they went off on their own. A few years  ago I tried making a pie and re-discovered the fun of making pizza, My pies  never tasted good even though they looked it. I decided to do an internet search on pizza making, found pizzamaking.com and tonight I will attempt to make  my first King Arthur Sir lancelot NY pizza. I made the dough yesterday at 8PM, I made two batches a 61% and a 63% hydration.
I will make the pies when I returned from the Mohegan Sun Casino.

This is a great site!

Joe




Offline JBJazz88

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2005, 06:13:43 PM »
Hi Folks,
I made the pizzas and must say they were very good. I preferred the 61% hydration over the 63% hydration, the 61% handled better for me.  I used the Tom Lehman method based on 11.8 oz of flour. I have a gas oven with non- glazed red clay tiles on the bottom rack. 500 degree F., pizza was done in ten minutes. 
I think the KASL  made the difference, I was able to get 50 lbs of it last week for $12.
I plan on making some more dough this week.

Joe


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2005, 06:38:33 PM »
Joe,

Congratulations :).

You didn't indicate whether you are weighing the flour and water or using volume measurements. If you are using volume measurements, it is fairly easy to swing the hydration in one direction or the other and wipe out the difference between 61% and 63% hydration. Using 11.8 ounces of flour, for example, the difference in water between 61% hydration and 63% hydration is less than 1 1/2 teaspoons--a small enough amount as not to be noticed in a measuring cup. Being high or low on the amount of flour can throw the hydration percentages off also. I mention this because if you don't weigh ingredients, you might wrongfully conclude that 61% hydration is better than 63% hydration.

Congratulations also on getting such a good deal on the KASL.

Peter

Offline JBJazz88

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2005, 07:25:32 PM »
Hi Peter,
I actually weighted out the ingredients on a $28 dollar (5LB capacity) digital scale that I purchased last week.
I am going to make two more pizzas this week with emphasis on the weights.
I did not mention that the 63% hydration was in the fridge for 48 hours vs 24 hours for the 61%,
would that have made a difference?

Thank You
Joe

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2005, 08:07:52 PM »
Joe,

You won't regret having the scale on hand. It will allow you to control things better and get more consistent results.

As for your question about the different ages of the dough, yes, there will be a difference. A high hydration dough will ferment faster than a lower hydration dough to begin with. And if you increase the fermentation time also, as you did with the 63% hydration dough, the usual result is that the dough will be quite extensible (stretchy) and more difficult to control than a lower hydration dough with a shorter overall fermentation. I think that is why you may have preferred the lower hydration dough. Having worked quite a bit with Lehmann doughs, my experience is that they are a bit sensitive to long fermentation times and can become quite extensible. That's one of the reasons I advocate using temperature adjusted water (which usually means cooler water) and getting the dough into the refrigerator as soon as possible after the dough comes off the hook. Doing these things will slow down the fermentation just enough to make the dough handle better when the time comes to shape it into a dough round (skin). Having said that, I know of many instances where our members have made the Lehmann doughs and held them (under refrigeration) for several days without experiencing any dough handling problems whatsoever.

A fairer test in your case is to make the different hydration doughs at about the same time and use them at about the same time. You may still prefer the lower hydration dough, but you will at least have used a proper basis for comparison. If I had to guess, I would say that it may be difficult to detect a difference in dough handling between a 61% hydration dough and a 63% hydration dough made contemporaneously. Even if you think you can detect a difference, your findings may be hard to support because there are so many other variables in making doughs that can throw things off.

Peter

Offline JBJazz88

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2005, 12:01:53 AM »
Peter,
I repeated the comparison test (Lehmann method) of the 61% and 63% hydration based on 11.8 oz of KASL.
The rest period was 24 hours in the refrigerator ,  cooked in 500 degree oven temperature for 9 minutes, Both pies were very good, not much of a difference. My next comparison test will be a 60% and 64% hydration.


 on a different note, did you see the Pizza contest on the Food Channel today? Those pizza guys can really twirl that dough.

Joe



Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2005, 05:07:51 AM »
Joe,

Thanks for updating us on your most recent Lehmann experiments with hydration levels. I'll be interested in the results of your next experiment. FYI, the range specified by Tom Lehmann himself is 58-65%.

I did get to see the Food Channel competition and all the dough tossing. Unfortunately, we don't get to make enough pizzas to be able to adequately develop our dough tossing skills.

Peter

Offline JBJazz88

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2005, 07:10:39 AM »
Hi Peter,
I am making a (Tom Lehmann) 60% hydration pizza today. I prepared the dough yesterday based on 15 oz of KASL flour. I decided to try .50% of IDY. I checked on the dough this morning, it looks really good.
I purchased an 18'' screen ( which by the way), is the largest size that will fit in my oven. I am hoping that the dough will be enough to cover  the full screen.

Is there a formula to determine how much flour is needed for a certain size pie?

Joe

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2005, 09:45:15 AM »
Joe,

There are three things you need to know to determine the amount of flour to use for a particular pizza: the size (diameter) of the pizza (18 inches in your case), the desired thickness (i.e., the thickness factor TF), and the baker's percents for the particular dough recipe you are using.

Since I don't already have a posted Lehmann 18-inch dough recipe for your situation, let us assume that you want to make the 18-inch pizza with a thickness factor of 0.105, which is fairly typical of a Lehmann NY style pizza (you can use 0.10 if you want an even thinner pizza). Let us also assume that you are not changing the baker's percents for the salt (1.75%) and oil (1%) in the basic Lehmann NY style dough recipe, and that you are using 0.50% IDY.

The weight of dough needed in your example is equal to Pi x R x R x TF, where Pi = 3.14 and R is the radius (equal to 18 divided by 2), or

                                          3.14 x 9 x 9 x 0.105 = 26.71 oz.

To determine the amount of flour that you will need, you first have to add together all of the baker's percents for the recipe. In your case, it is 100% (flour), plus 60% (water), plus 1.75% (salt), plus 1% (oil), plus 0.50% (IDY). That comes to 163.25. You next divide 163.25 by 100. That gives you 1.6325. The final step for the flour weight calculation is to divide the weight of dough calculated above, 26.71 oz., by 1.6325. Doing this gives us 16.36. That's the weight of the flour you need for your particular dough formulation. The weights of the remaining ingredients are calculated by multiplying the weight of flour (16.36 oz.) by the respective baker's percents for the remaining ingredients. For example, using your hydration percent of 60, the weight of water you will need is 60% of 16.36, or 9.81 oz. The amount of salt needed is 1.75% of 16.36, or 0.29 oz., and so forth for the rest of the ingredients.

If your baker's percents or thickness factor TF is different from the above example, that's no big deal. Just go through the calculations described above but use your particular values. In the future, you might also try out one of the spreadsheets now available on the forum.

Peter
« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 07:49:07 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline JBJazz88

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2005, 06:58:52 PM »
Hi Peter,
I made the 18" pie and must say that the 60% hydration produced a good pizza pie.
The 15 oz of flour made a dough enough to make a pie greater that 18", I probably could have made a 20" pie.
I understood the formula that you presented in your last reply, but I do not understand where the 16 came from, is it suppose to be 16 or 18?.

Thanks
Joe


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2005, 07:43:14 PM »
Joe,

I wish I could say that I planted an error in my calculations to see if you were paying attention. However, the error was mine alone and because of carelessness. The radius I should have used was 9 rather than 8, just as you noted. Using 18 inches as the pizza size, the amount of dough needed in my particular example would be 3.14 x 9 x 9 x 0.105 = 26.71 oz. The amount of flour needed would be 26.71/1.6325 = 16.36 oz. For that amount of flour, the water would be 60% of 16.36, or 9.82 oz., and the salt would be 1.75% of 16.36, or 0.29 oz. I apologize for the error. I should have reviewed my numbers more carefully. I will go back to correct the errors in my earlier post.

I am not surprised to hear that you had no problem getting the dough out to 18 inches or more. I used a thickness factor of 0.105 in my calculations in the earlier post. If I had used 0.10 instead, the dough would have been a bit thinner. It also depends where you emphasize the thickness in your dough, that is, at the rim or outside the rim.

In any event, I am glad to hear that your pizza came out fine. With my earlier errors corrected, you should now be able to design any size pizza and thickness you want.

Peter

Offline JBJazz88

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2005, 04:51:27 PM »
Hi Peter

I made an 18 inch pie, 63% hydration ( Tom Lehmann) with .50% IDY.
I made the pie on an 18 inch screen, cooked on screen for 6 minutes then transfered to stone (500 degrees F.). What a great pizza.. best yet. I like the end results of the higher hydration pizza pie better than the lower.

Is it possible to make the dough and freeze it for future use, if so, what is the shelf life of frozen pizza dough?

Thanks

Joe


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2005, 05:42:01 PM »
Joe,

Congratulations on your good results on the Lehmann 18-inch. Did you take any photos?

As to your question about freezing dough, the answer is yes. I am assuming that you are thinking about freezing some leftover dough rather than making the dough for freezing from the outset. If you are talking about the former, I would suggest freezing the dough right after it has come out of the mixer. I wouldn't count on too long a freeze period before using, maybe less than a week to be on the safe side. And you should be sure to allow about 12-16 hours for the dough to properly defrost in the refrigerator compartment of your refrigerator. The defrosted dough can then be used the next day. If you do a search on the forum for frozen/freezing dough, you will find reports of some of our members who have frozen their dough, including the Lehmann dough. In many cases, the members reported little harm to the dough from freezing or the pizzas made from them.

If you are thinking about making frozen dough from the outset, you would make the dough in the same manner as you usually do but use cooler water and maybe a bit more yeast, since freezing does damage to the yeast and reduces its leavening power by 20% or more. Again, you should allow adequate defrost time before using. I tried the foregoing approach once and did not find that the dough worked as well as a fresh one. Tom Lehmann says that a good frozen dough cannot be made in a home freezer. He says that a home freezer has a tough enough time just making ice cubes :). Professionally made frozen dough balls are flash frozen at extremely low temperatures. Even for those dough balls, Tom Lehmann sets an outside limit of no more than 15 days before using (with 10 days being even better).

Peter

Offline JBJazz88

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2005, 06:44:38 AM »
Hi Pete
Pizza Industry will be celebrating the 100th Anniversary of Pizza at New York show in November.Check out more info at  www.newyorkpizzashow.com



Joe

Offline JBJazz88

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2006, 07:58:47 AM »
Hi Folks,
Happy New Year to all.
I started out my first day of 2006 making a Lehmann pie.
The pizza was based on 13 oz. of KASL flour, 62% hydration, 20 minute autolyse and a 48 hour rest period in the fridge. I planned to make the pizza and made he dough two days earlier.
I received a digital camera as a gift from my son and his fiance on Xmas day, so here are my first posted pizza pics.


Joe

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2006, 08:58:21 AM »
Joe,

Congratulations. It looks like another satisfied customer.

Peter

Offline JBJazz88

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2006, 06:43:42 PM »
Pete,
I want to try the 6 in 1 Tomatoes. I can get the case of #10 cans for 27 dollars, is that a good price?
 
How long  will tomatoes keep when in deep freeze?


Joe
« Last Edit: January 13, 2006, 06:45:25 PM by JBJazz88 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2006, 07:16:18 PM »
Joe,

If you don't have to pay shipping charges, that sounds like a good deal. Escalon sells only the 28-oz. cans online. A #10 can is equal to 6 lbs. 6 oz. I assume a case is 6 cans. So that would be a total of 612 oz.--equivalent to almost twenty two 28-oz. cans. With even modest shipping charges from Escalon, you would be paying close to $60 for 22 cans. PennMac sells the 6-in-1s #10 can at $5.00 per can. But you would have to pay shipping charges unless you are near Pittsburgh. If you are near a Gordon Food Services (GFS) location, I believe they also carry the Escalon products as well as the competing Stanislaus brands.

As far as storage is concerned, Escalon says on its website that the shelf life of its canned tomatoes is 24 months. So, if you can use a case within 2 years you should be OK. If you need to freeze some of the tomatoes, the quality may suffer if stored too long but the tomatoes should otherwise be OK. I don't think you want to freeze the cans unopened because the water in the cans will expand and possibly burst the cans.

scott is our resident expert on tomatoes, so he may have some suggestions or advice also.

Peter
« Last Edit: January 13, 2006, 07:17:51 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline scott r

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2006, 11:47:51 PM »
I am not a big fan of freezing.  I have tried it and the sauce always comes out tasting sub par.  It tastes less fresh after a freeze.  Some people don't seem to mind though.

I think Hunts and Pastene are great alternatives to the escalon/stanislaus tomatoes, and you can usually find them at any grocery store (well at least the hunts).  I would rather have one of these products out of a freshly opened can than a frozen escalon product.

Please check out my new thread on mail order stanislaus tomatoes in small cans.

Offline scott r

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Re: My first NY pizza
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2006, 01:35:00 PM »
Pete,
I want to try the 6 in 1 Tomatoes. I can get the case of #10 cans for 27 dollars, is that a good price?
 
How long  will tomatoes keep when in deep freeze?


Joe

JBJazz88,

I did some checking around here for you and the escalon products seem to cost roughly 20 dollars a case wholesale.  I think 27 is a good price, especially considering how much that same amount of tomato would cost you at the grocery store.