Author Topic: what to do about bubbles  (Read 2075 times)

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Offline pbspelly

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what to do about bubbles
« on: November 02, 2011, 12:20:23 PM »
I sometimes get large (two, even three inches high) bubbles in my dough as it sits, covered, in the dough tray in the fridge.  What is the recommended approach to these: 
Pop them?
Leave them alone until time to toss the pie, then pop them?
Try and preserve them?
Reduce the amount of yeast?
Something else?

I like airy pizza crust, and am quite happy with the pie crusts derived from the Dough Doctor NY pie recipe, but am just never sure what to do about these


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 01:09:28 PM »
BP;
If your dough is in proper balance with regard to yeast level, and the temperature is not too high, the dough should not exhibit much of a tendency to bubble as you've described. A good dough temperature is 80 to 85F (probably favoring the 80F side). A dough that has too much yeastor one that is too warm will typically exhibit a greater tendency to bubble during storage in the fridge/cooler. Also, if you leave the dough rest at room temperature for an extended time prior to putting it into the fridge, this may increase the odds of having the dough bubble. If you put the dough into a plastic bowl in the fridge, be sure to leave it uncovered for the first 90-minutes or so, then cover it. This can also reduce the bubbling tendency. If all else fails, put the dough into a bread bag for refrigerated storage. Twist the open end of the bag to close it, and tuck the pony tail under the dough ball as you place it into the fridge, then kiss it good night. No need to leave anything open. Just be sure to oil the dough ball prior to dropping it into the bag, then just turn the dough ball out of the bag into a bowl of dusting flour and begin opening the dough ball into a dough/pizza skin, dress and bake. If the dough develops a bubble, I normally ignore it until I'm ready to use the dough, then just pop the bubble and open the dough ball.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline norma427

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 04:04:35 PM »
BP;

If you put the dough into a plastic bowl in the fridge, be sure to leave it uncovered for the first 90-minutes or so, then cover it. This can also reduce the bubbling tendency.

Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom,

I donít think I remember reading before when placing a dough ball in the fridge to let the lid off a plastic bowl for the first 90 minutes or so.  I didnít know that then led to less bubbling.  I always thought the dough ball would form a skin if left uncovered.  Thanks also for giving me this tip in addition to helping pbspelly.  :)

Norma   
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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2011, 09:03:51 AM »
Norma;
I should have added to lightly oil the dough ball when you place it in the container as this helps to control any possible skin formation while it is uncovered, and it also helps when its time to pop the dough out of the container, as it just plops out when you have oiled the dough ball.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline norma427

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2011, 09:46:24 AM »
Norma;
I should have added to lightly oil the dough ball when you place it in the container as this helps to control any possible skin formation while it is uncovered, and it also helps when its time to pop the dough out of the container, as it just plops out when you have oiled the dough ball.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom,

I always either oil my dough balls, or flour them before placing them in plastic containers.  At market I always used food grade plastic balls for all my dough balls, with the "pony tail twist".  That method is still working well for me.  ;)

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2011, 09:57:27 AM »
Norma,

In my early days on the forum, I tried Tom's method of letting the dough ball sit in its container without the lid, or, in my case, sometimes with the lid only partly covering the container. See, for example, Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7125.msg61399/topicseen.html#msg61399. I got the idea originally from member giotto as he described it in Reply 19 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,403.msg5054/topicseen.html#msg5054. Member canadave used a similar method with the lids of his dough storage containers (which were typically metal tins) but with the lids sitting upside-down on top of the tins, loosely covering the tins but not sealing them (Reply 50 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg5585/topicseen.html#msg5585). As did giotto, I viewed these methods as tantamount to cross stacking but with only a single dough ball. As a low-yeast user for the most part, I did not have problems with bubbling in the dough during fermentation, so I pretty much discontinued the practice of letting the dough cool down uncovered before covering the dough storage container.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2011, 10:20:22 AM »
Norma,

In my early days on the forum, I tried Tom's method of letting the dough ball sit in its container without the lid, or, in my case, sometimes with the lid only partly covering the container. See, for example, Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7125.msg61399/topicseen.html#msg61399. I got the idea originally from member giotto as he described it in Reply 19 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,403.msg5054/topicseen.html#msg5054. Member canadave used a similar method with the lids of his dough storage containers (which were typically metal tins) but with the lids sitting upside-down on top of the tins, loosely covering the tins but not sealing them (Reply 50 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg5585/topicseen.html#msg5585). As did giotto, I viewed these methods as tantamount to cross stacking but with only a single dough ball. As a low-yeast user for the most part, I did not have problems with bubbling in the dough during fermentation, so I pretty much discontinued the practice of letting the dough cool down uncovered before covering the dough storage container.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks, for those links about you trying Tomís method, and also for the links to what member giotto and member canadave did. I can see those methods would be like cross stacking.  I have read many posts on the forum, but never saw those before.  I am wondering after using the method of Tomís, or what you or other members did, if there is less condensation in the lids of the containers then.  Sometimes that is a problem for me, even if I get the final dough temperature in the right range.  I guess condensation doesnít really matter, but have often wondered about that.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2011, 10:39:35 AM »
Norma,

I used to worry about condensation forming on the inside of the lid of some of my storage containers, and especially the metal ones, and I ended up putting a sheet of paper towel between the lid and the container to absorb some of the condensation. See, for example, Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8603.msg74480/topicseen.html#msg74480. But, then, November told me that the condensation was desirable and he even offered up a design for taking advantage of the condensation. You can see a typical exchange on this topic between November and me at Replies 16 and 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12531.msg119822.html#msg119822. Maybe there are commercial applications where the condensation might pose problems, but I did not see it as a problem in a home setting with only a single dough ball.

Peter

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2011, 10:50:27 AM »
Here is my humble assessment of the giant bubble. Under ideal circumstances, the gas produced by fermentation activity is evenly captured within the well-formed gluten network. When fermentation reaches the stage of gluten breakdown and excess of gas, those gases are "released" within the dough ball and form towards the top of the mass. In my view, this scenario in of itself is not desirable. Either the amount of yeast should be lowered or the fermentation time should be reduced.

John

Offline norma427

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2011, 02:58:54 PM »
Norma,

I used to worry about condensation forming on the inside of the lid of some of my storage containers, and especially the metal ones, and I ended up putting a sheet of paper towel between the lid and the container to absorb some of the condensation. See, for example, Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8603.msg74480/topicseen.html#msg74480. But, then, November told me that the condensation was desirable and he even offered up a design for taking advantage of the condensation. You can see a typical exchange on this topic between November and me at Replies 16 and 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12531.msg119822.html#msg119822. Maybe there are commercial applications where the condensation might pose problems, but I did not see it as a problem in a home setting with only a single dough ball.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks again for the links.  They were helpful!

Norma
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Offline pbspelly

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2011, 09:00:30 AM »
Here is my humble assessment of the giant bubble. Under ideal circumstances, the gas produced by fermentation activity is evenly captured within the well-formed gluten network. When fermentation reaches the stage of gluten breakdown and excess of gas, those gases are "released" within the dough ball and form towards the top of the mass. In my view, this scenario in of itself is not desirable. Either the amount of yeast should be lowered or the fermentation time should be reduced.

John
This sounds like you're saying that it over-ferments (I don't know if that's the right technical term) before I'm ready to bake it.  Would that lead to a less airy pie with less of a rise?  I noticed that the dough that had the bubble ended up being a bit flatter than previous pies, was that the reason?

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2011, 09:52:31 AM »
This sounds like you're saying that it over-ferments (I don't know if that's the right technical term) before I'm ready to bake it.  Would that lead to a less airy pie with less of a rise?  I noticed that the dough that had the bubble ended up being a bit flatter than previous pies, was that the reason?

Yes, most likely that would contribute to less oven spring. Broken down gluten will not hold the trapped gas during the bake.

John

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2011, 02:27:44 PM »
Actually, most bubbles are the result of insufficient dough fermentation. Another major contributor to the cause is use of a cold dough (failure to allow the dough to temper AT room temperature for at least two hours after removing it from the fridge (if using cold fermentation). Occasionally, we do find an excessive amount of yeast being used, but if the yeast level is around 1% of the flour weight for compressed yeast, 0.5% for active dry yeast or 0.375% for instant dry yeast you're good on the yeast level
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline pbspelly

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Re: what to do about bubbles
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2011, 12:57:44 PM »
I am using cold fermentation method (straight from stand mixer to fridge, two hours uncovered, then two to four days covered). Last time a big bubble came in on day three.  Will try cutting my IDyeast in half and see how that works.  Thanks