Author Topic: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?  (Read 9224 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2012, 02:22:16 PM »
Chau,

I donít know if you ever looked at some of the formulations Peter and I tried on the Mackís thread, but they are low in hydration, and have a fair amount of oil.  This is one of the formulations at Reply 595 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9068.msg134713.html#msg134713 Using that formulation, and some others on the Mackís thread does give a rim crust that is tender, at least in my opinion.

Norma

Thanks Norma, I'll have a look later.

Chau


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2012, 02:31:45 PM »
Here's the 2nd attempt.  Much closer but still not there yet.  Lucci crust was more tender and yet abit more dry than mine.

This dough was half BF and half HG, HR 60%, 4% oil, salt, sugar, a bit of dry milk, and a bit of vinegar.  Now before anyone starts hollering abomination, I only added the dry milk and vinegar at the last moment borrowing from my baguette recipe.  I was getting exceedingly soft crumbs there so  I thought it couldn't hurt to do a bit of experimenting.  I've been wanting to try using a modified version of that baguette recipe along with it's poolish technique to see what form or shape it would take as a pizza.


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2012, 02:32:49 PM »
More pictures...

scott123

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2012, 02:56:53 PM »
Abomination!

Oh, wait, I'm not supposed to be hollering that.  How about heresy? Can I holler that?  ;D

Seriously, though, if you're going to get to the bottom of the Lucci mystery, then I really think you need to stick to their ingredients.  The guy you spoke to might have just been yessing you about the ingredients they use, but I think milk is long shot and vinegar is an even longer shot.  As far as the mix of flours goes, since Lucci's has bromated flour options for just about any protein content, I think it's safe to say that they don't blend. It kind of feels that you want to get to the bottom of this, but don't really want to make crap pizza :) Now, if you're baking pizza for yourself and want something tender, but with less conclusive results, then add the BF, but if you're going to figure this out, you can't use the BF. In all fairness, you really should be using a confirmed 14% flour, as opposed to the Sam's HG, which is most likely between 13 and 13.5.

This all being said, regardless of the imo, inconclusiveness of the results, your crumb and crust appear very tender.  Visually, that's very very close.  What was the bake time?

I noticed that you're getting, to an extent, your trademark superior oven spring.  In this instance, I would probably take steps to avoid it.  If the bulk ferment, stretch and folds and/or poolish technique are giving you better oven spring, then for this experiment, I think you need to nix them.

You had also talked earlier about additional kneading producing a finer crumb. Did you knead this longer than usual?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2012, 03:49:06 PM »
Scott, I do agree with what you've said about the dry mik and vinegar.  I just don't happen to think they make much of a difference either way, but for future tests, I will omit them. 

I agree about just sticking to HG flour, but I have never done a 60% HR with 4% oil and HG.  I just couldn't imagine it would even mix, so again at the last moment, I decided to use 50% BF.  I will do some more tests as time permits and keep it simple, HG flour no dry milk, no vinegar. 

As far as the Con Agra Full Power HG flour vs Sam's Club HG bleached and bromated flour, I thought Sam's Club flour is just relabeled Con Agra HG bromated flour.  Sam's may get their own blend, but for the sake of ease and economy, I can see it being a bromated version of the same flour.  I am almost out of my current bag of HG bleach and bromated flour.  When I am done, I will try out a bag of the CA full power flour.  I  believe my local Shamrock Food Distributor carries this flour. 

I also agree about trying to avoid techniques that would improve oven spring.  If I am to replicate the Lucci crust, it would perhaps be in a straight mix, very short bulk time if any, and a divide and ball to follow.  For this previous bake, the mix time was around 5.5m.   A poolish of sorts was made with the formula water, an equal amount of flour, and the remaining ingredients minus the oil.  After the poolish was ripe, I added the oil, the remainder of the flour, and mixed on speed 1 in my KA mixer.  The dough was fairly dry and took some time to incorporate.  I mixed for about 5.5m until the dough was well mixed and pulling away from the hook.   The dough was then allowed to double, at which time it was divided and balled degassing the dough in the process. 

Yes this mix time is much longer than usual, more than double as I would normally only mix for about 2 minutes, and that's with a higher hydration dough. 

I loaded the pies at a stone temp of 550F (as oppose to my usual of 650F) and the bake time was around 5.5m. 

Thanks for your input,
Chau

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2012, 12:01:45 AM »
Scott, just a quick follow up.  I was able to make contact with the gentleman that owns the mobile pizza gig.  He confirmed that it is caputo pizzeria 00 flour (blue bag) that he is using.  At times when his distributor can not source it, they supply him with Pavetti 00 flour.  Also the hydration is 58-60% depending on the season.  I will continue to try and get more info about the mixing process and dough method.

I should say the bake time could have also been 3min rather than 4.  It did seem very long and the rim was blond with some dry spots, but texture was very very soft.  I will have to try another pie from PVG soon.

Chau

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2012, 01:52:41 AM »
Chau,
Those pies look Wonderful to me! I had to ask,did you splash any evoo on them? It looks like they had some oil,but if not,it might just be from the toppings.

That aside,when I add some oil to to my pie toppings,it sizzles,leaves an impression all over the pie and taste fantastic.My cheese pie with oil,looks lie your pepperoni pie,but without it.
 :)




-Bill

scott123

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2012, 02:59:12 AM »
Chau, I talked to Roberto about this tonight  :) I'm not sure I understood him completely, but the gist of it seemed to be that Caputo can be tender with long low temp bakes, as long as you increase the water to compensate for the evaporation.  He actually mentioned, and I quote, a 500 deg. oven. And he spoke about adding sugar.

Considering how much Roberto shared with us that was lightyears beyond our knowledge,  I'm cautious to say that in this instance, he's wrong, but I'm still incredibly skeptical. I just thought you'd like to hear one more opinion on the subject.

Btw, while I have it fresh in mind, Roberto talked a little about elevation- he doesn't really believe that major changes need to be made to a dough to compensate for elevation- only very slight ones, if any at all.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2012, 03:12:14 AM »
Scott thanks for info.  I appreciate you passing this on as every bit helps to solve this mystery.

Scott, I know caputo can be tender at low temps.  Again my main arguments for this is that 1) I can make a loaf of bread out of caputo pizzeria flour and bake it between 425-500F for 40m and get a tender crumb.  It ain't pizza, but it's tender.  And 2) I've eaten a pizza that was to die for tender made from a comparable 00 flour bake in the 3-4 min realm.  I know it sounds reaching but that's all I have to go on right now.  It's possible, I just don't know how yet.  I don't know the tricks yet. 

Yes, I also agree with Roberto about the effects of elevation.  We get a bigger rise up here b/c the air pressure is lower.  So a small adjustment in yeast or the temperature of fermentation is all that is necessary to make.  And that adjustment doesn't even have to be conscious as most of us make those adjustments automatically with every batch of dough.  And the adjustment only has to be made initially.  It likely only takes a few batches of dough to dial into the new environment. 

Chau



Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2012, 03:15:13 AM »
Chau,
Those pies look Wonderful to me! I had to ask,did you splash any evoo on them? It looks like they had some oil,but if not,it might just be from the toppings.

That aside,when I add some oil to to my pie toppings,it sizzles,leaves an impression all over the pie and taste fantastic.My cheese pie with oil,looks lie your pepperoni pie,but without it.
 :)


Thanks Bill, I don't recall but I have before and do like to do that.  I usually don't on a pepperoni or sausage pie b/c it leeches enough oil on it's own, but again I have before.   I usually put it on a cheese pie prior to taking a picture of it if I remember.  If I forget for the pic, I usually remember to add it on after I've eaten a slice and realize it's missing.   Not sure why, but I just love a greasy pizza.   ;D

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2012, 11:01:42 PM »
Did another test bake last night and this was my closest effort yet.   Based on some comments made by Scott and a hunch, I decided to substitute the oil with shortening.  I used BF for this bake, lowered my hydration a bit and used 3% shortening.  I also used a poolish technique, but I don't think it matter much.

Anyway, I baked the first pie in the home oven for 6minutes.   Closer to effort #2 above, but not there yet.  This one topped with beef and onions.


Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2012, 11:06:18 PM »
So after I baked another pie (different formula) my freaking oven DIED!  It just gave out.  Too much broiler action I guess.  ???

I decided to fire up the LBE and baked the 2nd doughball from the same batch as above.  This doughball ended up proofing more than the first one b/c it sat under a warming light while the first 2 pies baked.  I ended up on baking this one for 4 min.  It had a puffier crust, really light crumb, and tasted much much closer to Lucci's than the first oven baked pie.  

I know you can't tell from the pictures, but the 4 minute pie from the LBE was much better than the 6min pie from the oven.  Not sure if I can repeat this but I will try.  

« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 07:51:57 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline chickenparm

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2012, 10:24:11 PM »
Love that cheese pie! Looks perfecto!
 8)

Btw,Did you figure out what happened to the oven yet or are you waiting on a repairman to come?



-Bill

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2012, 12:02:33 AM »
Thanks Bill!  I had a couple of leftover slices tonight retoasted and they were very good, still tender and crispy.  Just mixed up another batch of dough with a few tweaks.  I gotta say, I'm enjoying this NY slice style.  ;D

No idea what is wrong with the oven. The light and convection fan will turn on but not the oven.  The stove turns on as well but not the oven.  Can anyone help?  We will have to call someone if there is not an easy fix.

Chau

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2012, 12:05:50 AM »
Well, the repairman won't get here till Tuesday.  In the meantime, I have some dough that needed to be baked so I fired up the WFO today.  

I made another go at the Lucci's pie and I was very happy today with the result.  For this pie I use Sam's Club HG bleach and bromated flour, 4% shortening, IDY, salt, 60+ hour cold fermentation.  a 5min bake in the WFO turned out some excellent slices.   Here's a video I made for you Scott123.



« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 08:27:22 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2012, 12:08:41 AM »
A few more shots of the crumb from different parts of the crust.

scott123

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2012, 07:32:21 AM »
It's official, Chau. I've talked to mayor Bloomberg and you're getting the key to the city.

That is just stunning.  This forum has so many amazing looking undercrusts, that I generally praise a great one with terms like 'top 5,'  but in this instance, I think that undercrust is top 1  ;D

Nice job on the creative slicing. I think you nailed the perfect size slice. Can you see the difference size makes? It really shouldn't play that much a role- it doesn't change the taste of the pizza at all, but it's integral to the pizza eating experience- getting your hands around it, the flop, etc.- it's all part of the magic.

So, you had two beautiful slices and I'm guessing a few small trimmings. Who ended up with the measly pieces?

What's your feeling on shortening? Do you think a 4% oil crust could match this?

I know you set out to reproduce Lucci's, but I think you've surpassed Lucci's completely.  I don't think you captured any of their biscuitiness- which, if you took the time to do, would be a step backward. And, while we're on the topic of clones, I think you've come up with a pretty good Avellino (San Fran) facsimile, and also something that would give Luigi's (San Diego) and run for it's money.

The NY slice is, imo, the pinnacle of Italian artistry tempered by American accessibility.  It's melting pot cuisine at the peak of it's universality. A nice car can have a lot of fans, as can a good piece of chocolate, but I don't think there's anything more potentially crowd pleasing, worldwide, than a great NY slice. The pizza cognition theory places far too much emphasis on nurture rather than nature.  I believe, quite strongly, in a universal aesthetic.  That there are some things so beautiful, that they are recognized as beautiful by the whole world.  And this is an aesthetic that we're genetically hardwired with. Take a look at society's perception of feminine beauty. The fashion industry can try to shift society's appreciation away from curvaceousness and health, and, for a few years, nurture can prevail over nature, but nature always wins.

Everyone has a NY slice gene- at least, they have a gene that can appreciate NY style pizza at it's very best- which, these days, is not very common. But that potential is there.  Because of this genetic potential/universal aesthetic, we are making something that can make the whole world happy.

One very small nit  ;D  If authenticity is your goal, lose the post baking basil. Fresh basil in the sauce is fantastic and has a long history of use, but basil on the baked pizza is strictly a mutant Difara's thing.

NY slices are not that trendy, even at their best, so I can't promise you fame, but if you were to sell this slice on a commercial level, with that undercrust, that crumb and that crunch it makes when you bite into the rim- you'd be one extremely wealthy man.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 07:35:36 AM by scott123 »


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2012, 09:36:44 AM »
Chau,

As one who has spent a lot of time reverse engineering and cloning the pizzas of others, I know how difficult it is to capture the look and feel and characteristics and features of the pizza being cloned. It is not easy and you have to really know your stuff. In your case, you did a masterful job.

Peter

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2012, 11:51:51 AM »
It's official, Chau. I've talked to mayor Bloomberg and you're getting the key to the city.

That is just stunning.  This forum has so many amazing looking undercrusts, that I generally praise a great one with terms like 'top 5,'  but in this instance, I think that undercrust is top 1  ;D


Scotty, I am so honored!  Your compliment is one of the nicest compliments I have received!  Top 5 for sure and possibly even the nicest of compliments!   ;D  No seriously...coming from you, it does count for a lot in my book.

Nice job on the creative slicing. I think you nailed the perfect size slice. Can you see the difference size makes? It really shouldn't play that much a role- it doesn't change the taste of the pizza at all, but it's integral to the pizza eating experience- getting your hands around it, the flop, etc.- it's all part of the magic.

I think it was Bill (Chickenparm) who I got the idea from.  Thanks Bill!  Scott when I first heard you post about the importance of size, I honestly didn't buy it.  After all, it's the same pizza so why should the size matter?  It does for 2 reasons.  First as you said, its it the hold, the flop, the fold, and the overall experience.  Secondly, I have come to realize that a slice isn't a NY slice unless it's got the right TF, or should I say thinness factor.  If the slices aren't big enough, you wouldn't be satisfied and would feel cheated.  This came to me when my wife after having 2 slices of Lucci's, said wow, I could easily put away another slice!  She might of been commenting on how much she enjoyed the pizza, but it dawned on my that the size, thus the amount of pizza is also an important factor.   A thin NY slice of pizza from a 12" pie ain't going cut it.  A normal person could probably put away a whole 12" pie like that with no problem.

So, you had two beautiful slices and I'm guessing a few small trimmings. Who ended up with the measly pieces?

This was the last pie baked and one of 7 pies baked yesterday afternoon with no company over for lunch.  I took a few bites of the tidbits and they ended up in the trash.  :-\  They were mixed in with a few other discarded pizza bones and all got swept into the garbage in a hurry as I was trying to clean up in a hurry.

What's your feeling on shortening? Do you think a 4% oil crust could match this?

Tough question.  I have only used 4%+ oil a few times but they were either for an American style PJ's clone or at a really high % for deep dish pizzas.   I will definitely be testing oil vs shortening side by side.  But as it stands, my gut feeling is that they produce a slightly difference effect.  I think the shortening produces a drier feeling crumb, but it could just be my current formula.  Even though this had 4% shortening, the crumb had no hint of oiliness or the taste of shortening/fat/oil, which reminds me of a comment you made earlier in the thread.  

I know you set out to reproduce Lucci's, but I think you've surpassed Lucci's completely.  I don't think you captured any of their biscuitiness- which, if you took the time to do, would be a step backward. And, while we're on the topic of clones, I think you've come up with a pretty good Avellino (San Fran) facsimile, and also something that would give Luigi's (San Diego) and run for their money.

You know Scott, I was't gonna say it but I definitely thought it.  The crust was better than Lucci's.  Their unique biscuity texture could possibly be due to a slightly lower hydration and or baking at a lower temps for another 2minutes.  My crust was really tender if theirs is ultra tender.  My crust had just a tiny more bit of chew which was a good thing.  But overall, not chewy at all.  On a scale of 0-10, 10 being shoe leather, these slices may have been 2-3 on the chew scale.  Hard to say accurately but you can kind of see the very slight pull on the tip as I took the first bite.  If you turn the volume up and listened to when I take a bite of the crust, you can hear the qualities of the texture and crust, and that's not a chewy crust.
Thanks for the comparison to Avelino's and Luigi's, I'm sure their pies are outstanding as Mike has attested to.

As good as this pie was, I think I can improve it just a bit more....maybe, and what I have is definitely a great base to start with already.  I'm interested in playing around with lowering the hydration maybe 1-2% just to see the difference.  When I do that, I am also interested in testing a 4-5-6min pies, just to see the difference.  I would like a slightly less dark bottom, slightly.  But, it is a bit crazy to mess with it at this point as it was very good.  

The NY slice is, imo, the pinnacle of Italian artistry tempered by American accessibility.  It's melting pot cuisine at the peak of it's universality. A nice car can have a lot of fans, as can a good piece of chocolate, but I don't think there's anything more potentially crowd pleasing, worldwide, than a great NY slice. The pizza cognition theory places far too much emphasis on nurture rather than nature.  I believe, quite strongly, in a universal aesthetic.  That there are some things so beautiful, that they are recognized as beautiful by the whole world.  And this is an aesthetic that we're genetically hardwired with. Take a look at society's perception of feminine beauty. The fashion industry can try to shift society's appreciation away from curvaceousness and health, and, for a few years, nurture can prevail over nature, but nature always wins.

Everyone has a NY slice gene- at least, they have a gene that can appreciate NY style pizza at it's very best- which, these days, is not very common. But that potential is there.  Because of this genetic potential/universal aesthetic, we are making something that can make the whole world happy.


Well said Scott and great analogy.  Not having pizza in NY and only going by pictures and descriptions, I really have no basis or experience to work with here.  Having said that, I really had not given the NY slice style a fair chance, judging only based on my own limited pizza experiences and the local crappy pizza.  You wouldn't believe the kind of garbage that is passed around as pizza around here.  It's highly offensive to me at this point, and I am not even a NY native.

The Lucci's crust really opened my eyes up to the potential of the NY slice and I have been wowed with the results so far.   All the variances within the style such as slight changes in TF, chew, coloration, crumb, hydration, cheese, sauce, etc are just that...slight variances.  They can all  be accounted and adjusted for and every pizza will be different base on who makes the dough, pizza, and who bakes it.  But variances aside, the NY slice style as a whole seems to be an excellent one.  

Scott, I'm not sure that we are hardwired for "NY pizza" per se, but we are definitely hardwired for the textures of a great pizza crust.  There will always be folks that are adamant in their stance that pizza and bread are different, but there will always be folks like me who contend that they can be the same and are the same.  If there's anything that is hardwired into people, it's the textural qualities of a good bread .  We can see this love for similar textured breads the world over.  People love soft breads with a tender crumb.  People also seem to love a crispy crusty bread with a soft and tender belly.   For me, no matter what style of bread or pizza, I always get totally encaptivated by such a crust and crumb.   Per our previous conversations, I have had this very similar texture in 3 totally different styles of pizzas.

For those who disagree with me about bread and pizza, as I have read comments about pizza crust being "bready", I'm not talking about the heavy sourdoughs that you are use to eating.  I'm referring to that really great french baguette type of bread.  If you haven't had it, you haven't had great bread.

But if it turns out that we all have a gene for NY slice pizza, that's definitely okay by me.  :-D

One very small nit  ;D  If authenticity is your goal, lose the post baking basil. Fresh basil in the sauce is fantastic and has a long history of use, but basil on the baked pizza is strictly a mutant Difara's thing.

Your comment made me laugh here, not b/c I disagree with you but b/c I know how fond you are of Difara's.  :-D  The basil was a last minute call just b/c I like a lot of basil on pizza, but also b/c this was the last pie baked of 7 pies.  Not counting the 2 NP pies, the NY style pies were to be either pepperoni, mushroom, a combination of both, or cheese.  I had already made a cheese pizza earlier and had gorged myself, so I was looking for something a bit different by the end.

NY slices are not that trendy, even at their best, so I can't promise you fame, but if you were to sell this slice on a commercial level, with that undercrust, that crumb and that crunch it makes when you bite into the rim- you'd be one extremely wealthy man.

Thank you for the vote Scott, I'll definitely keep that in mind should I have opportunity for a 2nd career.  Thanks for all the help and feedback.

Best,
Chau
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 10:25:37 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2012, 12:12:46 PM »
Chau,

As one who has spent a lot of time reverse engineering and cloning the pizzas of others, I know how difficult it is to capture the look and feel and characteristics and features of the pizza being cloned. It is not easy and you have to really know your stuff. In your case, you did a masterful job.

Peter

Thank you Peter! Cloning for sure is a challenging and yet rewarding exercise.   Surprisingly enough my current results came about in a small part from the ideas and concepts I learned while making a few PH clone pies :o  Thanks to you and the many other members who did so much work in those threads.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 12:14:21 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2012, 11:57:25 AM »
Finally found some time to post this.  This pizza was made from the same dough as the pies posted above in reply #39 & #40 (3 day CF), but this dough was cold fermented for 9 days using 0.6% IDY.   This pizza was baked up in the LBE and not in the WFO as the other one.   The pizza was just as good.   The texture was excellent and the crumb a very slight bit more dry but hardly noticeble.  

I'll be baking up another 3 day CF batch today testing the difference between using oil and shortening in the dough.  

Chau
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 11:03:01 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2012, 12:42:08 PM »
Classic good looks there, Chau!

CL
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Offline chickenparm

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2012, 11:02:14 PM »
Awesome pie,I could eat that whole thing by myself!
 8)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2012, 11:12:26 PM »
Thanks Craig and Bill!   These slices are so thin, it's easy to eat a couple of BIG slices.  :-D

So based on one of Scott123's questions to me about the differences of the oil versus shortening, I wanted to do a side by side test.  Today's bake was made with 2 doughs that were treated the same in everyway, other than the use of oil vs. shortening.

Typically, for this style of pizza in my wfo, I will let the oven cool down to the proper temps.  Today, I wanted to try somethng new and baked the pizzas while the oven was heating up instead of cooling down. 

For the first pizza (oil), I had a bit too much top heat so the crust was a bit darker.  It was a very good crust but it leaned closer to my other NY style pies and more away from this slice style.   This one is topped with Margherita Brand Pepperoni that member Parallei had generously shipped to me to try.  This was my first time trying it and I like it quite a bit.  It had better texture and flavor than the cheap pepperoni that I typically get in bulk from Sam's club. 


My wife who normally does not like pepperoni, ate that big slice you see in the last picture.  :P

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Lucci in Santa Fe, NM - Authentic NY pizza in NM?
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2012, 11:19:07 PM »
For this 2nd pie (shortening), I backed off on the top heat but the oven had also cooled a bit between bakes.  This typically doesn't happen when I'm baking when the oven is cooling down from ultra high temps instead of baking while the oven is trying to heat up.   At any rate, the bottom was too light, so I decided to place the whole pie over my slotted GI metal peel and bake it over the coals to darken the bottom. This little trick worked.   ;D

You can see the patterned bottom on the youtube video.  



Here's how I get the big slices. lol.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 01:25:51 AM by Jackie Tran »