Author Topic: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie  (Read 47459 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24058
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2012, 09:00:55 AM »
Paul,

Nice job!  :)

Norma


Offline sum1else

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 91
  • Location: NYC
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #126 on: May 11, 2012, 09:39:47 AM »
Everyone's pies are looking really good! I've been swamped, but I'll have some time to keep playing with this recipe soon.

If anyone is in NYC, you should check out Madison Square Eats before June 1. There is a vendor (from Palermo!) selling authentic Sfincione.. The crust/crumb looks spot on identical to L&B, but I haven't tried it yet. http://midtownlunch.com/2012/05/11/heres-what-a-week-of-gorging-at-mad-sq-eats-looks-like/antica-sfincione/
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 09:44:33 AM by sum1else »

Offline rohfan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
Maybe some helpful info for reverse enginnering L&B
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2012, 05:50:12 PM »
FWIW, I had the pleasure of eating at L&B twice over the past two weeks because I was in the neighborhood for work. On one of those visits there was a Cremosa delivery truck parked outside the restaurant and it looked like they were making a delivery. They supply pizza sauce and cheese, apparently, as was noted on the side of the truck.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23362
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #128 on: June 15, 2012, 01:38:32 PM »
It looks like L&B has been in the news lately: http://screen.yahoo.com/pizza-almost-starts-mafia-war-29666779.html?pb_list=23dce613-c500-43f0-9134-70e58b73187a. For more details, see http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2012/06/mobsters-square-off-in-pizza-sauce-dispute.html. As far as I know, no bodies have been found in the Hudson River.

Peter

parallei

  • Guest
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #129 on: June 15, 2012, 04:33:27 PM »
Quote
It looks like L&B has been in the news lately:

Well, that explains the tomato sauce hand print on our front door the other day :o

Offline sum1else

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 91
  • Location: NYC

scott123

  • Guest
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #131 on: July 15, 2012, 02:53:04 PM »
I applaud their passion, and the backstory had some interesting elements, but that recipe has fail written all over it.

I think the biggest error is that they reference 'low moisture' cheese in the article, but use fresh in the recipe. And then, of course, you've got the volumetric measurements and the KABF.

'The Square's' slice was recently reviewed side by side by Adam Kuban on Slice. It's strange, he had posted a shot of a 'Square' slice in a previous week in review, and that looked nothing like L&Bs, but in the review, they looked extremely close.

Offline pizzablogger

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1334
  • Location: Baltimore
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2012, 01:51:24 PM »
Starting to be the go to simple pie around here.  Cheapo teflon pans seem to work o.k. also.



That side/crumb shot looks delicious. The amount of sauce used is what I personally prefer as well.

Outstanding looking pie! --K
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

parallei

  • Guest
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #133 on: September 08, 2012, 12:22:03 AM »
About 11 a.m., I realized it would stay cool enough to actually use my kitchen oven for the first time in eight or nine weeks.  So I made two emergency L&B like pies.  Not bad for a six hour dough, but in all honesty, the sauce with a heavy hit of white pepper saved the day......



Offline TheBoomer

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #134 on: November 07, 2012, 03:43:44 PM »
Thanks for the tips everyone.

I've been making L&B style pizza, based on what I;ve learned here for the past 3 months or so and I think I have as close as I'm going to get.

I'm using the recipe in the first post with KA Bread Flour.  For sauce I'm starting Nina San Marzano and then season to taste, going especially heavy on the oregano but light on the sugar.  My sugar doesn't like her sauce too sweet and I know where my bread is buttered ;). Can of Niina are $3.79 for 106oz can at Costco.  I also use a part-skim low moisture Mozzarella.

After mixing the dough, It goes in the fridge for approx 18-20 hours.  Then I let it sit for about an hour, then press it into the tray, top with cheese and let that sit for another hour.  Top with sauce and pecorino and bake to 18 minutes at 490.

One time I made a big mistake and forget the pecorino romano.  I won't make that mistake again :)

The local's( family and friends) think it's the best pizza they've ever had (of course they haven't been to L&B).  On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being a piping hot tray from L&B right out of the oven, I'd give it an 8.8.

! do have 2 questions.  The first is I saw post about L&B where someone mentioned adding sugar to the dough.  Why and how much would you recommend.

The second question is what's the best pan to use.  I didn't want to invest in pans until I knew that I could get a great pie.  Now I'm looking for pans.

I've seen a few threads about pans and it seems that blue steel is the way to go.  I was wondering what people thought about these 2:

http://www.bucket-outlet.com/upan.htm
http://www.paprod.com/pans.html

Boomer

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15859
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #135 on: November 07, 2012, 04:03:52 PM »
I thought L&B used black standard half sheet pans?

You can get the same 10x14 pans as at Bucket Outlet pre-seasoned here for about the same price: http://detroitstylepizza.co/?s=pans&searchsubmit=Search
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TheBoomer

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #136 on: November 07, 2012, 04:32:26 PM »
I thought L&B used black standard half sheet pans?

You can get the same 10x14 pans as at Bucket Outlet pre-seasoned here for about the same price: http://detroitstylepizza.co/?s=pans&searchsubmit=Search

Craig:

Thanks for the link.  I did come across that website earlier.  The only go up to 10x14 size and I'm looking for larger.  Larger pan, more pizza :)

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3095
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #137 on: November 07, 2012, 04:41:37 PM »
cool source craig, I didn't know about this place.        

In my neck of the woods its all about a pizza style that is also pan cooked, and has that awesome charred cheese on the edge like a detroit style pizza.   Most of the pre seasoned pans sold around here have a coating sprayed on them by the manufacturer.  Its not like most teflon non stick coatings, and they call it "pre seasoned" not "non stick" which they also sell.     Its a semi permanent coating that sort of freaks me out.   Im not sure what it is, but its almost seems like a harder than typical neoprene coating.  Its not ceramic.   Whatever it is, I would obviously prefer a baked on coating of oil or shortening.  

Do you know how these pans are pre seasoned?  

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15859
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #138 on: November 07, 2012, 04:46:53 PM »
cool source craig, I didn't know about this place.        

In my neck of the woods its all about a pizza style that is also pan cooked, and has that awesome charred cheese on the edge like a detroit style pizza.   Most of the pre seasoned pans sold around here have a coating sprayed on them by the manufacturer.  Its not like most teflon non stick coatings, and they call it "pre seasoned" not "non stick" which they also sell.     Its a semi permanent coating that sort of freaks me out.   Im not sure what it is, but its almost seems like a harder than typical neoprene coating.  Its not ceramic.   Whatever it is, I would obviously prefer a baked on coating of oil or shortening.  

Do you know how these pans are pre seasoned?  

I think it's baked on oil, but I don't know for sure. I have some inbound. I'll post after I hold them in my hands.

CL
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24058
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #139 on: November 07, 2012, 04:54:14 PM »
Boomer,

I did post pictures of L&B Spumoni Gardens steel pans at 2nd picture down in Reply 246 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17885.msg175826.html#msg175826 and at Reply 248 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17885.msg175827.html#msg175827  I am not sure, but they look like thicker steel pans to me.  I have one of those thicker steel pans.

Norma

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3095
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #140 on: November 07, 2012, 08:47:59 PM »
I think it's baked on oil, but I don't know for sure. I have some inbound. I'll post after I hold them in my hands.

CL

Ok, thanks so much craig!   

Offline widespreadpizza

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1245
  • Location: NH
    • my beer store opening in june 2011
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #141 on: November 07, 2012, 09:14:20 PM »
cool source craig, I didn't know about this place.        

In my neck of the woods its all about a pizza style that is also pan cooked, and has that awesome charred cheese on the edge like a detroit style pizza.   Most of the pre seasoned pans sold around here have a coating sprayed on them by the manufacturer.  Its not like most teflon non stick coatings, and they call it "pre seasoned" not "non stick" which they also sell.     Its a semi permanent coating that sort of freaks me out.   Im not sure what it is, but its almost seems like a harder than typical neoprene coating.  Its not ceramic.   Whatever it is, I would obviously prefer a baked on coating of oil or shortening.  

Do you know how these pans are pre seasoned?  

Scott,  maybe I can teach you something for once  hahaha,  the burnt edges thing is most def SAUCE!  last time I was at town spa the locals told me and no doubt they were right!  Seriously,  just sauce to the edge right up onto the pan then bake.   The flavor of burnt sauce is silly!  -Marc


Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12491
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #142 on: November 07, 2012, 09:28:17 PM »
Seriously,  just sauce to the edge right up onto the pan then bake.   The flavor of burnt sauce is silly!  -Marc
Indeed. I showed this technique a while back on a Chi-town thin and stated how ya have to sorta man handle the edge to free it from the pan....but boy is it worth it, silly good crispies.  ;)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3095
  • Age: 44
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #143 on: November 08, 2012, 10:20:40 AM »
Scott,  maybe I can teach you something for once  hahaha,  the burnt edges thing is most def SAUCE!  last time I was at town spa the locals told me and no doubt they were right!  Seriously,  just sauce to the edge right up onto the pan then bake.   The flavor of burnt sauce is silly!  -Marc

marc thanks for that!   I will def try saucing AND cheesing to the edge next time (which I haven't been doing).   

I miss our talks... your the man!!!!   I hope your store is kicking ass and your happy.   

Offline johnnydoubleu

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 222
  • Location: Flatbush
  • Thrill junkie. Baker. Cook. Coder. Aesthete.
    • johnwozniak.com
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #144 on: November 08, 2012, 12:24:09 PM »
^Seriously illuminating!

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15859
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #145 on: November 08, 2012, 12:33:34 PM »
Scott,  maybe I can teach you something for once  hahaha,  the burnt edges thing is most def SAUCE!  last time I was at town spa the locals told me and no doubt they were right!  Seriously,  just sauce to the edge right up onto the pan then bake.   The flavor of burnt sauce is silly!  -Marc

That would make L&B's pies better, IMO. I didn't particularly care for the relatively large rim with no cheese or sauce.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TheBoomer

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #146 on: November 08, 2012, 12:45:33 PM »
That would make L&B's pies better, IMO. I didn't particularly care for the relatively large rim with no cheese or sauce.

That's why when I go there I always ask for middle slices  ;D

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15859
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #147 on: November 09, 2012, 01:04:39 PM »
I think it's baked on oil, but I don't know for sure. I have some inbound. I'll post after I hold them in my hands.

CL

Scott, they are blued steel with what appears to be a baked-on oil seasoning.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline joeventura

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
  • Location: New York
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #148 on: August 25, 2013, 08:37:38 PM »
@sum1else: What do you think accounts for the diff in the crumb vs your other try? I mostly don't use a mixer for dough (make a lot of bread Tartine style and have such a small kitchen it is cumbersome to break out applicances) so I am likely to take a similar approach to you, but in consideration of what @dellavecchia is doing as well. Between the two of you things are getting pretty close. Pretty darn cool guys :)!

@all: I usually go to L&B 2-3 times a year in the summer (it is close to me but not that close). Is anyone close enough that they could take a peak in the dumpster there (for tomato cans etc.)?

I wonder if the twice baked thing is stemming from confusion about them putting the pie directly on the deck for a bit, which I have def seen them do.

I have been in the L&B dumpster TWICE, there is nothing in there except the Grande cheese boxes.
The dough and the sauce are made in the basement away from prying eyes.
They actually make the dough in the basement in a device that looks more like an old cement mixer.
I know 100% sure the sauce is NOT cooked.

Cento San Marzano tomatoes, Salt, Pepper, Dry Italian Oregano and Sugar will get you 98% of the way there.


Offline joeventura

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 7
  • Location: New York
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Reverse Engineering L&B Spumoni Gardens' Square pie
« Reply #149 on: August 25, 2013, 08:43:07 PM »
My attempts using:

Flour (100%):    499.39 g  |  17.62 oz | 1.1 lbs
Water (69.4%):    346.58 g  |  12.23 oz | 0.76 lbs
IDY (1%):    4.99 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.66 tsp | 0.55 tbsp
Salt (2%):    9.99 g | 0.35 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.08 tsp | 0.69 tbsp
Oil (5.4%):    26.97 g | 0.95 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.99 tsp | 2 tbsp
Total (177.8%):   887.92 g | 31.32 oz | 1.96 lbs | TF = 0.145

in an 11X17 pan