Author Topic: Autolyse with oil in the recipe  (Read 359 times)

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Offline clarkth

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Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« on: August 27, 2015, 02:58:31 PM »
I've been wanting to do an autolyse with my NYC style dough to help absorb the water into the flour better.  I also use about 2% oil in my recipe.  Would I add the water and oil to the flour and let sit or add the oil after the autolyse period? 


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2015, 03:02:52 PM »
Thomas,

After.

Peter

Offline Mmmph

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2015, 03:06:43 PM »
Peter,

Agreed.

JJ
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 03:43:34 PM »
JJ,

Concur.

Craig
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Offline clarkth

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 04:11:03 PM »
Excellent, thanks for all the quick responses

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2015, 09:56:51 PM »
Excellent, thanks for all the quick responses

Why

So

Longwinded?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 10:38:19 PM by theppgcowboy »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2015, 08:57:29 AM »
Out of curiosity, and seeing a need for a more longwinded response  ;D, I went back to my copy of Prof. Calvel's book The Taste of Bread to see if he had any bread dough recipes that called for the use of oil as part of an autolysis rest period. I could not find any. However, I did find a recipe for Straight Dough Pain de Grauau with Autolysis Rest Period that calls for the use of margarine that is part of the autolysis rest period. However, as Tom Lehmann tells us in his Pizza Today article at http://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/our-experts/dough-doctor-the-long-and-short-of-it/, solid fats are treated differently than oils when incorporated into a dough, more specifically, the solid fat can be added up front and not delayed as in the case of oils. So, for Thomas' purpose, adding the oil after the autolysis rest period is appropriate.

To the above, I would add that in the recipe cited above, the amount of margarine is only 25 grams for 10 kilograms of flour, or only 0.25% by weight of flour. That amount of margarine can easily get lost in 10 kilograms of flour.

Peter

Offline juniorballoon

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2015, 12:13:32 PM »
How does the presence of oil change the autolyse process? I can guess that oil may coat some of the flour particles and not let them absorb as much water.

jb

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2015, 12:23:14 PM »
I can guess that oil may coat some of the flour particles and not let them absorb as much water.

jb
jb,

That's it.

Peter


Offline mitchjg

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2015, 03:42:25 PM »
P

 ^^^

M
Mitch

Offline juniorballoon

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2015, 05:00:34 PM »
Interesting. I just read the other day, in another Peter Post, that a proper autolyse does not have yeast either. I have been mixing all of my ingredients in the KA for about a minute, just long enough for everything to come together, and then letting it sit for 20 minutes or so. I haven't tried doing it without oil or yeast. Wonder if there's a noticeable difference. Really need more people to feed so I can experiment more.

jb

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2015, 05:02:24 PM »
You really don't need to do it at all if you have any length on your fermentation. IMO, autolyse is a complete wast of time for pizza.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2015, 05:13:05 PM »
Interesting. I just read the other day, in another Peter Post, that a proper autolyse does not have yeast either. I have been mixing all of my ingredients in the KA for about a minute, just long enough for everything to come together, and then letting it sit for 20 minutes or so. I haven't tried doing it without oil or yeast. Wonder if there's a noticeable difference. Really need more people to feed so I can experiment more.

jb
jb,

It takes a certain amount of time for the yeast to start to ferment the dough and add acidity but if the autolysis rest period is less than that time, you should be OK. I read somewhere that even Prof. Calvel came to accept the addition of yeast under those conditions, and especially so for natural starters/preferments. I wouldn't get too hung up on these matters. My view on autolyse is that if someone likes the results achieved using autolysis who am I to tell them otherwise?

Peter


Offline juniorballoon

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Re: Autolyse with oil in the recipe
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2015, 05:16:11 PM »
jb,

It takes a certain amount of time for the yeast to start to ferment the dough and add acidity but if the autolysis rest period is less than that time, you should be OK. I read somewhere that even Prof. Calvel came to accept the addition of yeast under those conditions, and especially so for natural starters/preferments. I wouldn't get too hung up on these matters. My view on autolyse is that if someone likes the results achieved using autolysis who am I to tell them otherwise?

Peter

Agreed. One of the reasons I don't do more experiments, beyond not wanting to waste pizza, is I am happy with the result. Still the scientist in me wants to know what those differences are. :)

jb