Author Topic: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow  (Read 29915 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #240 on: February 29, 2012, 10:41:38 AM »
Norma,

Iis there a particular dough ball weight that you would like to use for the basic IDY version for the same pizza size? Also, it looks like your pizza sizes are already 18". Is that correct?

Peter
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 11:34:53 AM by Pete-zza »


Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #241 on: February 29, 2012, 12:37:39 PM »
Norma,

Iis there a particular dough ball weight that you would like to use for the basic IDY version for the same pizza size? Also, it looks like your pizza sizes are already 18". Is that correct?

Peter

Peter,

I will leave it up to you what dough ball weight to use with the IDY version for the same pizza size.  You are correct that the pizzas are almost 18Ē already.  I didnít mean for that to happen, but the doughs opened up so easily.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #242 on: February 29, 2012, 01:19:19 PM »
Norma,

I decided to stick with the 448-gram dough ball weight so that I could compare the IDY numbers with the numbers for the Pepe's 2.0 version. In coming up with the IDY version, rather than using the rough 1:3 conversion of cake yeast to IDY, for the sake of accuracy I decided to use the more precise yeast conversion table as given at http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm to convert the amount of cake yeast that I used for the Pepe's 2.0 to IDY. All of the metrics for the IDY version, which is presented below and called Pepe's 3.0, are essentially the same as for Pepe's 2.0 except for the total amount of carbohydrates. The carbohydrate content of the IDY version is somewhat lower than for the Pepe's 2.0 cake yeast version because of the use of IDY, which has a lower carbohydrate value than cake yeast. However, the differences shouldn't be noticeable. The dough from a hydration standpoint and the handling qualities should be essentially the same as with Pepe's 2.0.

Pepe's Clone Dough Formulation, IDY Version (3.0)
Better for Bread Flour (100%):
Water (58.7%):
IDY (0.876%):
Salt (1.75%):
Total (161.326%):
277.7 g  |  9.8 oz | 0.61 lbs
163.01 g  |  5.75 oz | 0.36 lbs
2.43 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.81 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
4.86 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.87 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
448 g | 15.8 oz | 0.99 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough is for a single, approximately 18" pizza; no bowl residue compensation

Since Pepe's 2.0 is also capable of making a roughly 18" pizza, for a KAAP version you should be able to use Pepe's 2.0 just as it is but substitute the King Arthur all-purpose flour for the Better for Bread flour.

The last Pepe's clone dough had a corresponding thickness factor value of (448/28.35)/(3.14159 x 9 x 9) = 0.0621. That is quite a low value. At some point you might want to up that value to something more representative of a NY street style pizza, possibly 0.075. Maybe your customers are viewing your Pepe's clone pizzas as being on the skimpy side, especially when compared with the preferment Lehmann pizzas with the larger rims and thicker crusts (larger thickness factor).

If there is a version or size that you would like to try that I have not already covered from a dough formulation standpoint, please let me know.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #243 on: February 29, 2012, 02:58:02 PM »
Norma,

I decided to stick with the 448-gram dough ball weight so that I could compare the IDY numbers with the numbers for the Pepe's 2.0 version. In coming up with the IDY version, rather than using the rough 1:3 conversion of cake yeast to IDY, for the sake of accuracy I decided to use the more precise yeast conversion table as given at http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm to convert the amount of cake yeast that I used for the Pepe's 2.0 to IDY. All of the metrics for the IDY version, which is presented below and called Pepe's 3.0, are essentially the same as for Pepe's 2.0 except for the total amount of carbohydrates. The carbohydrate content of the IDY version is somewhat lower than for the Pepe's 2.0 cake yeast version because of the use of IDY, which has a lower carbohydrate value than cake yeast. However, the differences shouldn't be noticeable. The dough from a hydration standpoint and the handling qualities should be essentially the same as with Pepe's 2.0.

Pepe's Clone Dough Formulation, IDY Version (3.0)
Better for Bread Flour (100%):
Water (58.7%):
IDY (0.876%):
Salt (1.75%):
Total (161.326%):
277.7 g  |  9.8 oz | 0.61 lbs
163.01 g  |  5.75 oz | 0.36 lbs
2.43 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.81 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
4.86 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.87 tsp | 0.29 tbsp
448 g | 15.8 oz | 0.99 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough is for a single, approximately 18" pizza; no bowl residue compensation

Since Pepe's 2.0 is also capable of making a roughly 18" pizza, for a KAAP version you should be able to use Pepe's 2.0 just as it is but substitute the King Arthur all-purpose flour for the Better for Bread flour.

The last Pepe's clone dough had a corresponding thickness factor value of (448/28.35)/(3.14159 x 9 x 9) = 0.0621. That is quite a low value. At some point you might want to up that value to something more representative of a NY street style pizza, possibly 0.075. Maybe your customers are viewing your Pepe's clone pizzas as being on the skimpy side, especially when compared with the preferment Lehmann pizzas with the larger rims and thicker crusts (larger thickness factor).

If there is a version or size that you would like to try that I have not already covered from a dough formulation standpoint, please let me know.

Peter

Peter,

It is fine that you decided to stick with the 448 grams dough ball weight, so you could compare the IDY numbers with numbers for the Pepeís 2.0 version.  I had forgot about the precise yeast conversion table at the artisan.  That is a good tool.  I will have to remember about that tool when I want to do yeast conversions for accuracy. 

Thanks for setting forth a Pepeís 3.0 IDY formulation.  I think when I do use the dough calculating tool to use a TF and also a bowl residue factor I will up the TF 0.075.  I didnít know the TF I was using was so low because of the dough ball opening so easily. I will try to also be careful this coming week when opening the Pepeís 3.0 dough ball so it will stay at exactly 18Ē. I can see my customers wouldnít find a Pepeís clone as attractive as the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas because of the rim size and much lower TF.  I am not sure really what my customers like in terms of TF for a NY style pizza.  Maybe sometime I might ask them about that.  I believe my preferment Lehmann dough pizzas are also a little lower in TF than I thought, because usually the skin almost fills my wooden peel.

Norma
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Offline Ev

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #244 on: March 02, 2012, 01:32:12 PM »
Norma

Last night I baked one of each variety dough balls that our friend Jeff so kindly brought us to try out. The plain pizza is the plain dough and the pepperoni pizza is the wheat dough. My family and I thought they were pretty good but not great as you may expect. I'm not really sure what I didn't like about them other than to say they just didn't taste "fresh". After thawing and resting in the fridge for almost three days, they were very easy to handle and opened very easily. The directions on the bag said to cook at 400 degrees! I compromised at 475. Baked for 6 or 7 minutes.   

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #245 on: March 02, 2012, 01:40:33 PM »
Last night I baked one of each variety dough balls that our friend Jeff so kindly brought us to try out. The plain pizza is the plain dough and the pepperoni pizza is the wheat dough. My family and I thought they were pretty good but not great as you may expect. I'm not really sure what I didn't like about them other than to say they just didn't taste "fresh". After thawing and resting in the fridge for almost three days, they were very easy to handle and opened very easily. The directions on the bag said to cook at 400 degrees! I compromised at 475. Baked for 6 or 7 minutes.   

Steve,

Thanks for posting your results and pictures of the Salís frozen dough balls that Jeff and Mark kindly brought to us.  :) Do you think the bake temperature had anything to do with the taste of the curst or do you think the crust just didnít taste fresh?  I know you bake a lot of pizzas at home and your NY pizzas are great!  Which did you like the best, the plain dough or the wheat dough?  Interesting that there isnít more browning on the bottom of the crust.

The pizzas do look very good though!  Looks like you have nice crumb structure.

Norma
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Offline crystaldragon

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #246 on: March 02, 2012, 02:03:35 PM »
Norma, I think that the lack of browning in Steve's pizza may have been caused by the oven temperature and total time in the oven. I suspect that a higher temperature or a longer bake time probably would have resulted in more browning.

Offline Ev

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #247 on: March 02, 2012, 02:42:08 PM »
CD, you may be right about that. I usually bake at 550 and never take more than 5 or 6 minutes. I may have left the second pie in a little longer and gotten a little more color.
 Norma, I can't really say what I didn't like about it. Not bad, just not what I'm used to, I guess.

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #248 on: March 02, 2012, 06:30:34 PM »
Norma, I think that the lack of browning in Steve's pizza may have been caused by the oven temperature and total time in the oven. I suspect that a higher temperature or a longer bake time probably would have resulted in more browning.


crystaldragon,

I think you and Steve are right that if he would have used a higher bake temperature and less time in bake he results might have been different.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #249 on: March 02, 2012, 06:38:39 PM »
CD, you may be right about that. I usually bake at 550 and never take more than 5 or 6 minutes. I may have left the second pie in a little longer and gotten a little more color.
 Norma, I can't really say what I didn't like about it. Not bad, just not what I'm used to, I guess.

Steve,

I know you usually bake at about 550 degrees F or a little higher.  Thanks for posting that you really canít say what you didnít like about the Salís pizzas.  My Pepeís frozen dough ball instructions say to bake at 450 degrees F too, but I didnít do the bakes at that temperature.  I wonder what temperature Jeff used to bake his Salís pizzas.  I know he said he used the 16 oz. dough ball for a 13Ē pizza because that is how big he said his pizza stone was. 

I know you are used to your pies and they are good!  :)

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #250 on: March 02, 2012, 07:31:11 PM »
I had used the contact page at PFM http://www.pfmills.com/contact-pages-8.php and had asked them what the protein content was of the Mondako flour and I received an email today that said the protein content for the Mondako flour is 12.0 +/- 0.3%.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #251 on: March 02, 2012, 08:39:10 PM »
I had used the contact page at PFM http://www.pfmills.com/contact-pages-8.php and had asked them what the protein content was of the Mondako flour and I received an email today that said the protein content for the Mondako flour is 12.0 +/- 0.3%.

Norma,

I went back to Reply 161 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17632.msg173398.html#msg173398 and updated the protein information for the Mondako flour, and also for the Power flour based on your post at the Mellow Mushroom thread at Reply 1476 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg174687.html#msg174687.

Thank you.

Peter

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #252 on: March 02, 2012, 09:27:44 PM »
Norma

Just wanted to let you know that I was in a local Walmart tonight and they had a new box of Pepe's doughs, this batch was made on 2-14-12. Apparently someone is still actively producing Pepe's Dough, and it is selling. I haven't cooked mine yet, too many other things going on.

Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #253 on: March 02, 2012, 10:04:24 PM »
Norma,

I went back to Reply 161 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17632.msg173398.html#msg173398 and updated the protein information for the Mondako flour, and also for the Power flour based on your post at the Mellow Mushroom thread at Reply 1476 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3940.msg174687.html#msg174687.

Thank you.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the update!

Norma

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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #254 on: March 02, 2012, 10:12:37 PM »
Norma

Just wanted to let you know that I was in a local Walmart tonight and they had a new box of Pepe's doughs, this batch was made on 2-14-12. Apparently someone is still actively producing Pepe's Dough, and it is selling. I haven't cooked mine yet, too many other things going on.

Dave,

Your local Wal-Mart sure sells fresh frozen Pepeís dough balls.  I havenít been to my local Wal-Mart since the other week when I purchased the last two Pepeís frozen dough balls, so I havenít been able to check to see if the Pepeís boxes have a new date on them.  I agree, apparently someone still must be producing the Pepeís dough balls like you posted.

Thanks so much for reporting back what date was on the Pepeís box on at your local Wal-Mart. 

When you have time to bake one of you Pepeís dough balls it will be interesting to see what you think of them.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #255 on: March 04, 2012, 04:20:03 PM »
These are the two printouts from the expanded dough calculation tool for the Pepeís Cone Version 2.0 for a 16Ē pizzas with KAAP and CY and the Pepeís Cone Version 3.0 with IDY and using Better for Bread flour for a 18Ē pizza.  Picture of each dough ball under the printouts.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #256 on: March 04, 2012, 04:20:58 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #257 on: March 04, 2012, 04:21:50 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #258 on: March 04, 2012, 04:23:21 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Mystery Dough Pizza for Tomorrow
« Reply #259 on: March 05, 2012, 08:57:26 AM »
Ralph Pepe called me last evening.  He said his brother had received the letter I had written and gave it to him yesterday.  I talked to Ralph for awhile and he said for many years Pepeís bakery made bread, rolls, pizza dough, etc at their bakery.  He said they produced pizza dough locally and also for other small markets.  Ralph said  a distribution center opened near them and they started producing frozen pizza dough for them.  Next Wal-Mart opened a distribution center near them and from there Pepeís frozen pizza dough business really grew.  Then Ralph and his brother became too busy to produce all the frozen pizza dough for the distribution to Wal-Mart so they then subbed-out their recipe to a big bakery near them.  Ralph did say his brother and him did then auction off their equipment and building.  Ralph said the bakery is making the exact pizza dough they always made. 

I asked Ralph about the kind of yeast they use in their frozen pizza dough and he said it was cake yeast, so Peter was exactly right in determining that it was cake yeast from his calculations and from the Nutrition Facts.  :chef: We also talked about labeling and I asked if the flour was unbromated flour like it said on the ingredient list.  He said yes it was unbromated flour, because what is listed needs to be right and needs to be listed in the order that the ingredients are used because of rules for labeling from the FDA, Ralph said everything has to be right in case someone might not be able to eat certain ingredients because of being allergic or other reasons.

I then asked about the dates that were stamped on my Pepeís dough balls and first he asked me what colors are on the plastic bags the frozen dough balls came in.  I told him the colors were red, white and green.  Ralph said he doesnít know of anywhere that the dates are stamped on the labels and asked me more questions about where the date were stamped.  He asked me the exact dates that were stamped on my Pepeís frozen dough balls.  I told him I usually check dates on labels to see if something is fresh, but saw the dates that were stamped on my frozen dough balls were from almost a year ago.  I think I might send Ralph one of those bags to show him what the stamps look like.  He asked me if the frozen dough balls with those dates stamped on made good pizzas and I told him yes the pizzas were good.  Ralph said he had thought that only the dates were put on the boxes that contained the dough balls like Dave  :) had posted.

This is sort of the timeline in their business expansion.
In 1998 Pepeís opened distribution to Hannfordís supermarkets. http://www.hannaford.com/   2002-2003 Wal-Mart opened a distribution center near them and then Pepeís started selling their frozen pizza dough balls though them.  Since 2008 when Pepeís sub-out their recipe to the bakery it now sells through 7 Wal-Mart distribution centers. 

Ralph also said the bakery that makes their frozen pizza dough is accredited by the AIB with their 5 food standards https://www.aibonline.org/Standards/FoodSafety_Eng_Man_web.pdf  and the bakery meets those standards with 5 stars.  I didnít find out what specific bakery or frozen manufacturer produces Pepeís frozen dough balls, but it is in upstate NY.  Maybe in time we will find who the bakery is.

It was nice to hear of the success story of Pepeís. 

Norma
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