Author Topic: gas fired brick oven  (Read 21537 times)

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Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #120 on: July 20, 2012, 12:50:29 AM »
That's a great looking oven. Ive never seen this style oven in this shape before. I do have 2 issues with it right off the bat though.  First I can't tell if it's ul or NSF certified.  My county is impossible to deal with.  I was told by the sf sales rep that even though sf ovens are UL cert. and the burner is UL also, they aren't certified together and that it was going to be a problem.  The rep knew because he's just 10 minutes from our restaurant.  My second issue is going to sound terrible and hopefully doesn't get me into trouble with anyone from the forum. My father and uncles would probably disone me if I suggested a French oven.  It would be like buying a French jersey and rooting for them in the world cup.  I know that's bad but they're pretty old school and are very competitive, especially with anything French.


Offline pizzaneer

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #121 on: July 20, 2012, 04:38:31 AM »
Well, the FGM rep is one of the members here. Nice guy:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=19372

drop him a PM about your concerns and your questions.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline Giggliato

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #122 on: July 21, 2012, 12:19:58 PM »
This is an interesting thread, those Marra forni ovens look interesting, does anyone use them in a production environment?

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #123 on: July 21, 2012, 04:59:28 PM »
I know Tony's in SF uses a Marra Forni Oven.

I made some pizza's today in my Blodgette oven that has the thermostat mod and I thought I'd share some pics.  I made a dough with 80% Caputo and 20% AP.  It was 57% hydration but I added a little olive oil which brought it to about 59 or 60% total.  24 hour bulk rise then balled and 24 more.  The Margarita I did at 750 f and it cooked in exactly 4 minutes.  The Pep sausage I cooked at 800 f and it took 3 minutes 10 seconds.  The Broccolini and sausage cooked in 2 minutes 40 seconds at about 825 f.  Far from perfect again but everything actually came out better than I thought. 

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #124 on: July 21, 2012, 06:04:34 PM »
Wow!   :o

If those were my pies, I'd be beaming like a proud papa and handing out cigars!

It's great to see these results.  I've been interested in your progress since your first post.

I'm curious - why such a range of temperatures in the bakes?  Was the oven steadily getting hotter?  How does the tweaked thermostat behave as far as staying consistent?

I'm also curious whether you have offered these pies to the customers yet.  I'd really like to see a side-by-side comparison between your "normal" pies and these new ones.  And hear what your customers thought of them.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline scott123

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #125 on: July 21, 2012, 06:22:06 PM »
John, the forum has kind of an unwritten rule that you never criticize someone else's pizza, but, since this is a business, I think I'd be doing you a disservice if I wasn't completely frank.

The margherita is, to me, the perfect representation of that no man's land pizza we talked about earlier.  It's possible for great things to be done with Caputo in 4 minutes, but 99.9% of the time, the pies end up looking just like that. Compared to a 90 second bake, the crust is going to be dry and tough. Your average customer may not be able to tell you why they don't like it,  but, as I said before, they'll vote with their wallet. You start selling that, you'll be out of business in a year.

The other pies look good, especially the pep sausage.  You're still in that dreaded 2-3 minute realm, but I think you mitigated the effects, to an extent, with the little bit of malt in the AP, the oil in the dough and the relatively long ferment. I have to be honest, these are pretty amazing looking pies for that time frame, but, put next to a 90 second caputo or a 4 minute bread flour, I'm not sure how well they'd compare.  They're close to perfect, but in a commercial environment, you want perfect.

I'm not going to keep harping on this.  This is the last time I'm going to say it.  When it comes to great Neapolitan pizza, there is no 'close enough.' Either you have the equipment to hit 60-90 seconds or you don't- and, if you don't, the next best thing is 4 minute NY.  Any time between 2 and 4 minutes will impact your bottom line.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 07:00:35 PM by scott123 »

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #126 on: July 21, 2012, 07:04:13 PM »
The different cook temps I actually did on purpose.  I wanted to try to see for myself the difference between a 4 minute bake and a 2 and a half to three minute bake.  The oven is actually fairly easy to predict.  I would have to do a side by side comparison of a 90 second bake to these pizza's to really see what the major differences are because they were actually pretty tasty.  Scott The Margarita I purposely cooked when the oven was cooler so I could hit that 4 minute bake.  Maybe It has that look you don't like because there's not enough top heat to really char the top but I took it out at 4 minutes exactly.  Also I wish I had taken a crumb shot because it was light and airy.  It wasn't too tough imo until it cooled significantly.  I will admit that cold it was pretty tough but when re-heated it was not bad. 

Scott I appreciate the criticism.  As I said I'm going for the best possible product with the tools that will be available to me.  I'm trying to play around with the 4 minute cook time.  At this point the Marsal looks like my best option and for that I have a really good model in Delfina in San Francisco.  I really do enjoy their pizza and they're one of the busiest pizzerias in Sf.
I'm not trying to rip them off but that is the direction I'm going.  I'm posting this video which states that they use all Caputo flour and their cook time is 4 to 4 and a half minuts at around 750.  I feel like they must be using oil to get better browning if it's 100% Caputo but not sure.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEWQiJpliWM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEWQiJpliWM</a>

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #127 on: July 21, 2012, 07:06:02 PM »
Also Thanks pizzaneer for the compliment.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #128 on: July 22, 2012, 12:40:21 AM »
I think your pie cooked at 825 looks great.  In all honesty pies in that 2:30 range are sold all over this country as Neapolitan, and uneducated consumers THINK they are Neapolitan.  If done right they can be very tasty, and in some places seem to be much more marketable the the real deal soft wet 60 second pies.  I personally call them Americanized Neapolitan.  If I was you I would call them artisan pizzas and do a very soft low key launch and see how they do with your clientele.  You may find you have a real winner commercially speaking with what you already have.
-Jeff

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #129 on: July 22, 2012, 07:50:20 AM »
+1
That Broccolini would fly off the shelves around here....
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #130 on: April 10, 2013, 12:24:55 AM »
So I'm bringing this thread back because I finally decided to just pull the trigger and purchase the Marsal wave oven. I know some of you think it's (vs the mb) unnecessary but I like the look and I like the idea of getting the high temps without having to modify the oven.  Stil haven't decided whether I'm going with a more Napoletanish 2-4 minute bake (I know scott 123 feelings on this are well documented), or a 4-5 minute neo ny style.  It'll just be trial and error and we'll see what people prefer.
     I do have one question though. I believe the deck is fibrament and I've read some negative things on here about it that have me a little concerned.  Anyone have any thoughts on whether or not fibrament is the way to go for this oven. Thanks

Offline shuboyje

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #131 on: April 10, 2013, 02:57:12 PM »
The issue with fibranent in a home oven is its low thermal conductivity.  In a commercial bottom heat only oven that low conductivity is a plus as you run the oven full bore trying to push heat to the top it will help you keep a balanced bake. 
-Jeff

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #132 on: April 10, 2013, 05:38:29 PM »
Great thanks for the info. I'm going to place the order very soon and I'll be posting my experiences with the oven as soon as it arrives.

Offline JConk007

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #133 on: April 10, 2013, 10:22:43 PM »
Thats a great Oven drooling over one here in Jersey on sale ! What woiuld mama say If I came rolling in with that ! oh I know  but but but GET OUT ! :-D
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #134 on: July 09, 2013, 04:35:51 PM »
My Marsal Wave oven finally got here today.  I'll be making pizza's tomorrow and I'll post pics.

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #135 on: July 20, 2013, 02:44:56 PM »
I'm having trouble posting pics.  this is just a test

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #136 on: July 20, 2013, 03:12:32 PM »
It's been about 10 days since the new oven came in and i'm finally starting to make some progress.  The bottom of the wave oven is the MB60 which we are doing our NY style pizza in and it's working great so far.  It's definitely a more dry bake which makes the pizzas coming out of the marsal a bit crispier than the Blodgett.  The wave oven on top has been a bit more difficult to work with because you can't really get a consistent temperature with the side flame so I'm constantly adjusting the thermostat.  It is however very capable of producing high heat.  I'm getting close with my dough now I just need it to be a bit more tender. 
Dough Recipe:
100% Caputo 00
56% water
2.5% oil
2.75% salt
24 hours bulk, 24 hours balled (all in walk in) 2 hours room temp
700 degree oven for 4 minutes

Offline scott123

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #137 on: July 20, 2013, 03:34:25 PM »
I'm getting close with my dough now I just need it to be a bit more tender.

Caputo with 4 minute bakes having tenderness issues? I would never have guessed  :-D

John, you paid quite a lot of extra money for the high temp upper oven, why not make what it's advertised to make- Neapolitan pizza? I would think that selling NY style next to authentic Neapolitan pizza would be a huge selling point- if, of course, the Wave's temps are as high as they advertise.

Offline Gianni5

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #138 on: July 20, 2013, 04:07:38 PM »
I would if I could Scott.  The 900 degree claim is a little deceiving because the deck really won't get over 750.  They put the thermostat halfway between the deck and the top of the oven and right next to the side burner.  The oven is hotter than any deck oven I've seen but 2:30 minutes is about as fast a bake time as your going to get.  Also we have 1 pizza line and both types of pizza need to be made side by side.  Logistically it is more doable to have a pizza with a 4 minute cook time next to a pizza with a seven minute cook time.  I think what Pizzeria Delfina in SF does with 00 flour, Marsal ovens, and a 4 minute bake is more what I am shooting for.  If anyone has any Ideas for getting a little more tender crust I would love to hear it.  Cutting the caputo with another flour? More oil? less mix time? (I've been mixing for about 8 minutes on low in a hobart mixer) Higher hydration?     

Offline scott123

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Re: gas fired brick oven
« Reply #139 on: July 20, 2013, 04:21:07 PM »
I would if I could Scott.  The 900 degree claim is a little deceiving because the deck really won't get over 750.  They put the thermostat halfway between the deck and the top of the oven and right next to the side burner.  The oven is hotter than any deck oven I've seen but 2:30 minutes is about as fast a bake time as your going to get.

That's disappointing.

What's your NY recipe/flour?

If you take that and bake it in 4 minutes rather than 7, you'll get everything you're seeing here, but with the tenderness you're looking for. You might want to take it to 3.5 to create a bit more delineation/Neo-ishness, but the malted flour will outperform the Caputo. I guarantee you that it will blow Delfina out of the water.

On the plus side, you'll be selling two different pizzas, but only having to make one dough.