Author Topic: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)  (Read 4517 times)

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Offline tdub154420

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6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« on: March 05, 2012, 01:22:54 AM »
First of all I want to thank everybody on these forums for helping me with my cheese problem, everyone's suggestions were a big help.  But alas I have found another problem.  My Sauce! 

I have tried several, several recipes found on the internet.  Ranging from the use of unspecified diced, or whole peeled tomatoes, some recipes including onions or red wine vinegar and of course all using oregano, garlic, olive oil..etc.  All of them have tasted awful.  I suspect that its mainly the tomatoes...but everything I've added hasn't helped much.  They always seem to come out in a bitter, salty/acidic taste that nothing can help.  I didn't want to believe that I'd have to spring for imported tomatoes but I can't take another can of the tomatoes from my local supermarket.  So with my choice of San Marzano or 6 in 1, I'm gonna try 6 in 1 All Purpose Ground Tomatoes in Extra Heavy Puree to try to make some real sweet and tangy NY tomato sauce. 

Now I've used my favorite sauce before.  I went down to my local NY style pizzeria bought some sauce off of them and made the best cheese pizzas of my life.  The sauce was real thin, sweet and robust, and served quite warm.  I've searched but haven't found a definitive recipe for making a can of 6 in 1 into some real good NY sauce.  My question is, once I get that can of 6 in 1 what steps do I take to make it into some thin, sweet sauce?  Do I go complex or just keep it simple? 

Thanks! 
- Trevor


Offline scott123

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 03:16:56 AM »
No onion, oil or vinegar in NY style sauce.

The most important aspect is that your tomatoes should taste good right out of the can.  6 in 1 have a good rep, so they should serve you well.  I've tried 4 different brands of SMs and all of them were tasteless/watery for 4 minute bakes, so I'd nix the SMs for NY style.  I'm not sure how places like L&B Spumoni gardens get a flavorful SM with a long bake, but I have heard stories of cooking the tomatoes beforehand- so that could be it.

California tomatoes generally are pretty tart, so, for NY sauce, you're almost always going to want to add some sugar.  The trick is to add enough sugar so that you balance the tartness, but not so much that the tartness completely disappears and the sauce goes dull. Salt is also a key player, even if the tomatoes are packed with some salt. It's important to keep in mind that the cheese (and toppings like pepperoni) brings a lot of salt into the picture, so the sauce should be a bit undersalted to compensate.  California tomatoes, sugar and salt is the most basic sauce you can get, and with the right tomatoes and the right proportions, can be sublime.  Beyond that, there's oregano, of course. Some places will add the oregano as topping, while others will add it to the sauce.  I prefer in the sauce, as it gets distributed more evenly.  Garlic can be added, either in a powdered or fresh form. I prefer fresh, but I keep it to a bare minimum.  Dried basil has no place in cooking, period, but a little fresh basil helps a sauce.

That's it. Play around with those ingredients. You'll know very quickly if you've added too much oregano, garlic or fresh basil as their flavors are incredibly distinct.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 06:00:06 AM »
I'm pretty much on board with scott123's suggestions, however I have found Classico's, which are a cousin (same company, Heinz owns both) of 6 in 1's to be very sweet tasting, and easily found at most Walmart stores. Classico's come in peeled ground and crushed form and I have found the "crushed" to be very sweet tasting with no need to add sugar. The peeled ground version is essentiallly the same as 6 in 1's, provided your 6 in 1's are skinless. Most 6 in 1's are ground with peels included. Another good "crushed" tomato brand, which is grown in New Jersey rather then California is Scalfani. Be sure you are buying the "right" Scalfani's as there are two companies that go by the same name. The ones to look for are the ones from NJ, owned by B&G Foods. I'll provide a link to the Scalfani's asap.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 06:01:46 AM »

Offline dmcavanagh

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Offline deb415611

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 06:53:10 AM »
. Be sure you are buying the "right" Scalfani's as there are two companies that go by the same name. The ones to look for are the ones from NJ, owned by B&G Foods. I'll provide a link to the Scalfani's asap.

ahh, that explains it.  I have seen you mention that brand and I had tried the Scalfani from CT quite a few years ago and didn't care for them.   I was thinking I needed to retry them based on your posts but maybe not.... 

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 04:32:55 PM »
ahh, that explains it.  I have seen you mention that brand and I had tried the Scalfani from CT quite a few years ago and didn't care for them.   I was thinking I needed to retry them based on your posts but maybe not.... 

Deb

I wasn't reading your mind, it only seems that way! I get Sclafani's in two different import stores in my area. At a third store, they carry the entire food line from the CT. Sclafani brand. I only recently discovered the fact that the two companies existed. Very confusing to say the least. I hope others haven't taken my reccommendation and then bought the wrong thing.

Offline mnjesse

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 08:31:20 AM »
I use 6 in 1's right out of the can and do not add anything to them.

Offline tdub154420

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2012, 02:17:01 AM »
So I looked into the Sclafani's as well as the Classico's just in case I don't want to keep buying 6 in 1's.  The Classico's are way easy to find and are pretty cheap so I will try them soon to see if they're a good substitute.  As for Sclafani the local Italian deli where I got the 6 in 1's has a wall dedicated to Sclafani products so I'm gonna have to talk to the store owner there about what's good. 

As for the 6 in 1's this time around....all I can say is wow.  Scott123 I took your advice and just added kosher salt, some light brown sugar, oregano, fresh basil and a little bit of minced garlic and olive oil.  The result was the sauce I'd been looking for.  I heated it for about 15 minutes on the stove top just to get it hot.  It's not quite what I'd say is the the best I could've made as I didn't perfect the tartness to sweetness to saltiness ratio, but the quality flavor of the 6 in 1's was exactly what my pizza had been missing.  I think it is just a matter of getting the ratios correct.  Having tried a lot of my grocer's generic tomatoes (diced all the way to crushed and whole peeled) and even trying making sauce from fresh tomatoes, I still can't believe what a difference these 6 in 1 tomatoes make.  Wow. 
- Trevor

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2012, 05:17:46 AM »
tdub- I would try and start with a more minimalist approach first before doing tons of things to the recipe, especially like cooking the sauce which I feel takes away some of the fresher flavors.

I would try just using salt and regular sugar and getting a good balance. Like Scott said it is okay if it is a bit on the sweet side because of the saltiness from meats and cheeses. Once you try that i would slowly incorporate other ingredients if you feel they are necessary for what you're looking for.


Offline jever4321

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2012, 10:09:42 AM »
6-1 crushed are a good choice. They don't add citric acid. Check the lable for ingredients on the tomato cans. I try to find tomatoes without citric acid.
-Jay

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2012, 10:55:39 AM »
The matter of citric acid in tomatoes has always puzzled me. I even once raised the question with a food broker in the Dallas area who had accounts with many companies that sell canned tomatoes. For those who are interested in what he told me, see Reply 58 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6633.msg160409/topicseen.html#msg160409. I also had a conversation with an employee of Stanislaus, Escalon's biggest competitor, and she essentially told me the same thing when I mentioned that Escalon did not have citric acid in their tomatoes. Quite naturally, as a Stanislaus employee, she tried to diminish the significance of citric acid as an issue in canned tomato products.

Peter

Offline tdub154420

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2012, 11:22:39 AM »
When I first started looking into 6 in 1's and saw that it had no citric acid it was kind of an aha moment for me because I realized that was the flavor I couldn't shake.  As I've posted in this forum I have bombarded my sauces with ingredients...and as jeffrey pointed out I shouldn't to start off...but nevertheless with my old tomatoes I threw the spice rack at them and got different flavors, but always the same lingering after taste.  It was unshakeable...so much so that I thought it was my dough for a while.  I posted a thread asking why is my dough sour tasting but after trying sauceless pizzas I found it wasn't my dough at all.  I recently posted a thread in the NY style forum called "In Desperate Need of Cheese Help" asking why my cheese tasted sour.  It wasn't my cheese either.  It was my sauce the whole time.  I had been told that tomatoes were naturally acidic, and I did try to combat this with brown sugar and other sour fighting ingredients, but tomatoes with citric acid added is just too much sour for me. 
- Trevor

Offline scott123

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2012, 08:49:20 PM »
As for the 6 in 1's this time around....all I can say is wow.  Scott123 I took your advice and just added kosher salt, some light brown sugar, oregano, fresh basil and a little bit of minced garlic and olive oil.  The result was the sauce I'd been looking for.  I heated it for about 15 minutes on the stove top just to get it hot.

I'm glad it worked out well for you.  Light brown sugar is a bit unorthodox, but, hey, whatever floats your boat  ;D

I'm a little bit burnt out on the cento puree I've been using for years, and, this week, picked up some Pastene peeled ground tomatoes so, hopefully, I'm on track for a sauce breakthrough myself.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2012, 09:57:28 PM »
Scott123

I've never had their ground tomatoes, but Pastene crushed tomatoes are very good, I think you'll like them. I would rate them just slightly below 6 in 1's. Sclafani's and Classico's, but still very good.
I sometimes will use honey as an additive to bitter, acidic tomatoes...give it a try.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2012, 10:28:10 PM »
Scott123

From what I gather, you are a NY'er. A brand of tomatoes that I have also found to be very good are the Pastosa's, from the same people that make and sell various frozen pastas including some killer ravioli's. They come in a blue labeled can. I'll try to find a picture and post a link.

Offline scott123

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2012, 10:41:48 PM »
Dave, I live in the 'sixth' borough, NE NJ  ;D

This is a non-superwalmart state, so that makes finding the classico's a lot harder. I'm pretty sure I can get 6 in 1s and Sclafani from a local pizzeria supply place, but it would have to be a huge can, and, right now, I can't work with that much.

I do live in NJ (where Sclafani is produced), so I should be able to find them, but, so far, everywhere carries ground, but not peeled ground.  I won't work with unpeeled tomatoes. My anti-peel feelings really limit my options.

Is this the Pastosa's you're referring to?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6151/6159494391_2151f29ae1.jpg

Thanks for the suggestions. With what I have available, I'm open to any ideas.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2012, 11:15:15 PM »
Scott123

Those look like they may be whole tomatoes, I buy the crushed in a very similar looking can.

Offline dmcavanagh

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 11:19:09 PM »
BTW, I have seen Classico's around (upstate, Albany area, NY) in some grocery stores as well as at Walmarts. I don't know what is around in your area but keep an eye open. It's a Heinz product, so you would think they would be available somewhere. A local chain called Price Chopper brought them in for a one shot deal, then they disappeared from their shelves.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: 6 in 1 tomatoes....now what? (Making NY sauce)
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2012, 03:24:55 AM »
I use 6 in 1's right out of the can and do not add anything to them.

I started using the Classico crushed (skin included) or the DiNapoli crushed and love it so much I don't feel I need to add anything to it.  I don't feel that I need anything because it taste so good out of the can and I did try some pizzas with it straight, nothing added and it was great.  I have made some with spices added but honestly it was not any better.   I never tried 6 in 1's though.  I'd like to try those and 7/11s to compare and see if I like them better but the cans are so big but the Classico and the DiNapoli are smaller cans. 

So I agree that if these taste so good why add anything?