Author Topic: Wet Gluten Mass Tests on Caputo Rinforzato, Caputo Pizzeria, All Trumps bromated  (Read 17625 times)

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Online norma427

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I did the wet gluten mass test on the Caputo Farina tipo 00 flour (Caputo Extra Blue 00 flour or Extra flour) last evening.  The dough ball was easy to mix and it was kneaded for 5 minutes.  I sure have no idea why when washing small pieces wanted to break off the wet gluten mass.  I had to retrieve them from the strainer and put them back into the wet gluten mass, just like I did with the Durum Semolina flour.  I donít know if this means the flour is not fresh or not (when pieces want to break off when washing), but I also had my Durum Semolina flour for awhile and didnít have the Durum Semolina flour in a plastic bag or in a plastic container.  All my others flours have been kept in plastic bags or plastic containers. 

The Caputo Blue Bag wet gluten mass weighed 58.38 grams after washing.

I also fed my Ischia starter with some of the Caputo Extra Blue 00 flour last evening and at least it seems to do well with the stale flour.  If anyone sees this post and thinks I should not be feeding my Ischia starter with stale flour, let me know.  I donít want to ruin my Ischia starter with stale flour. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Norma,

Thank you for conducting the gluten mass test on the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour. I decided to add your results to the Master List (below), along with a notation that the expiration date for the flour is 2010.

As for using the Caputo Extra/Blue flour, usually the main concern is if the flour has turned rancid because of its long exposure at room temperature. The Caputo Extra/Blue flour has slightly less fat (0.9 grams per 100 grams of flour) than other white flours but usually the flours can tolerate a normal room temperature environment for about 1-2 years (depending on the temperature where the flour is stored). A bad flour will often have an unpleasant odor. If your Caputo Extra/Blue flour has a normal smell, you are perhaps OK. The flour might have lost some of its moisture content but that shouldn't affect its use for your purposes. If that is a concern, you could do a hydration bake test on a small sample of the flour to see how much of its rated moisture content (14%) has been lost.

Master Gluten Mass List (as of 3/18/12)

KASL (King Arthur Sir Lancelot): 4.1 ounces, or 116.235 grams (14.2 +/- 0.2% protein)
All Trumps (bromated, bleached): 3.81 ounces, or 108 grams (14.2 +/- 0.3% protein)
Power (Pendleton): 3.8 ounces, or 107.73 grams (13.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
ADM Gigantic: 3.42 ounces, or 96.89 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour): 2.68 ounces, or 75.978 grams (12.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Caputo 00 Rinforzato: 2.66 ounces, or 75.43 grams (12.5 +/- 0.50% protein)
Caputo 00 Pizzeria: 2.54 ounces, or 72.12 grams (11.5-12.5% protein)
Mondako (bleached, Pendleton): 2.354 ounces, or 66.75 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Better for Bread (aka Harvest King): 2.306 ounces, or 65.3751 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KAAP (King Arthur All-Purpose): 2.297 ounces, or 65.11995 grams (11.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Ceresota All-Purpose: 2.114 ounces, or 59.93 grams (12% protein)
Caputo Extra/Blue 00: 2.06 ounces, or 58.38 grams (11 +/- 0.5% protein) (Note: expiration date of flour = 2010)

Peter


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Peter,

The Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour doesnít have an unpleasant smell, so I guess it didnít turn rancid.  Thanks for telling me that a bad flour will often have an unpleasant odor. 

Would I just add flour and water to see how much moisture might have been lost for a hydration bake test?  If I only wanted to use a 10 gram piece of dough for a hydration bake test how much water and flour would I add for a dough ball. I guess I would need to mix a little more dough incase something might be lost in the mixing. I might do a hydration bake test on the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour just to see how much moisture it did lose.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Would I just add flour and water to see how much moisture might have been lost for a hydration bake test?  If I only wanted to use a 10 gram piece of dough for a hydration bake test how much water and flour would I add for a dough ball. I guess I would need to mix a little more dough incase something might be lost in the mixing. I might do a hydration bake test on the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour just to see how much moisture it did lose.

Norma,

All you need to do is take a sample of the Caputo Extra/Blue flour all by itself and bake it at around 212 degrees F to allow the moisture to evaporate. You will want to be careful not to exceed the 212 degrees F temperature since that can cause the flour to burn and volatilize some of its components. When the weight of the sample stabilizes, which might take a few hours, that is the value you would use in comparison with its starting weight to calculate the amount of moisture in the flour. The calculation won't be perfect, given the imprecision of the test, but it should give you a general idea as to the moisture content of the flour. You perhaps don't want to use too much flour for the test since that can make the bake time too long to drive off all of the moisture, and you might have to stir the flour from time to time to expose more of the flour to the heat. Just a thin, uniform layer in your holder (e.g., a metal jar lid) should be sufficient.

Peter

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Norma,

All you need to do is take a sample of the Caputo Extra/Blue flour all by itself and bake it at around 212 degrees F to allow the moisture to evaporate. You will want to be careful not to exceed the 212 degrees F temperature since that can cause the flour to burn and volatilize some of its components. When the weight of the sample stabilizes, which might take a few hours, that is the value you would use in comparison with its starting weight to calculate the amount of moisture in the flour. The calculation won't be perfect, given the imprecision of the test, but it should give you a general idea as to the moisture content of the flour. You perhaps don't want to use too much flour for the test since that can make the bake time too long to drive off all of the moisture, and you might have to stir the flour from time to time to expose more of the flour to the heat. Just a thin, uniform layer in your holder (e.g., a metal jar lid) should be sufficient.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining how I would go about doing a hydration test on the Caputo Extra/Blue flour all by itself.  I didnít know how to do that before you explained it.  I will see what happens with a hydration test with the flour by itself.

Norma
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Online norma427

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Peter,

I did the hydration test on the Caputo Blue/Extra flour.  I weighed the metal lid and then added 5 grams of the Caputo Blue/Extra flour.  The metal lid weighed 14.36 grams before adding the flour and 19.36 grams after adding the flour.  My toaster oven was kept right around 212 degrees F for 2 1/2 hours.  I could see the weight of the metal lid with the flour falling a few times when I removed the metal lid and weighed it.  The metal lid with the flour now weighs between 18.74-18.71 grams depending on if it was weighed straight from the toaster oven or left for a few seconds on the scale.  What I want to ask you if you think I should bake anymore, or do you think the moisture is driven out of the flour by now?  I did weight it 20 minutes ago and it still weighed the same.  Maybe I wasnít giving it enough time for more moisture to be driven out of the flour.  Since I havenít done a hydration test like this before I am not sure if the hydration test is finished. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Norma,

If the weight has stabilized, I would say that the moisture has most likely been driven out of the flour. I would give the lid a chance to cool off a bit (maybe a few minutes) and then weigh the lid and flour. If the lid is put on the scale while it is hot, or even warm, that might throw off the electronics of the scale and produce an incorrect reading.

Peter

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Peter,

As I was uploading my pictures for the hydration tests and some other posts, I put the hydration test back into the toaster oven for another half an hour.  The hydration test (weight of lid and Caputo Blue/Extra) now has cooled and now it weighs 18.82 grams.  I have no explanation for why the number went up.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Norma,

The three weights you mentioned yield the following moisture content values:

18.71 grams (container included) = 13%
18.74 grams (container included) = 12.4%
18.82 grams (container included) = 10.8%

It is hard to say which is the most correct value. The moisture content of flour depends not only on the flour and its starting moisture content but also on the temperature during storage and the humidity to the extent it affects the flour. My recollection is that a flour can lose a few percent moisture over the duration of its storage. I tried to get some specific values from a Google search but did not find any hard and fast data. However, during that search I stumbled across a document that gives specific instructions on conducting a flour moisture test. It is at page 2 of http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/sites/default/files/ash.pdf. FYI, the 130 degrees C in the instructions converts to 266 degrees F. I don't know if that particular temperature is tied to the type of oven (air oven) mentioned in the article.

For the age of your Caputo Extra/Blue flour, I can't say that the values you got are out of line since they are all in the few percent moisture loss range.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 04:28:56 PM by Pete-zza »


Online norma427

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Norma,

The three weights you mentioned yield the following moisture content values:

18.71 grams (container included) = 13%
18.74 grams (container included) = 12.4%
18.82 grams (container included) = 10.8%

It is hard to say which is the most correct value. The moisture content of flour depends not only on the flour and its starting moisture content but also on the temperature during storage and the humidity to the extent it affects the flour. My recollection is that a flour can lose a few percent moisture over the duration of its storage. I tried to get some specific values from a Google search but did not find any hard and fast data. However, during that search I stumbled across a document that gives specific instructions on conducting a flour moisture test. It is at page 2 of http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/sites/default/files/ash.pdf. FYI, the 130 degrees C in the instructions converts to 266 degrees F. I don't know if that particular temperature is tied to the type of oven (air oven) mentioned in the article.

For the age of your Caputo Extra/Blue flour, I can't say that the values you got are out of line since they are all in the few percent moisture loss range.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for doing the calculations for the hydration test with the numbers I gave you.  What I find interesting is since I had to run some errands and came home the number for the hydration test is even higher.  It is 19.18 grams.  I didnít cover the hydration test with anything and it is dry in our area.  I wonder if more moisture evaporates out of flour when it is left out without even doing anything to it.  At least it seems that way to me.  I am going to let the hydration test sit out more and see if the number goes higher.  Maybe if flour isnít stored correctly it can lose moisture quicker than I thought.

Thanks for the link for the moisture content test. It is interesting how a moisture test is conducted. I have a convection oven at market if you think that is something like an air oven.  I could conduct some moisture tests on flours while I am cleaning at market someday if you want me to.  

Norma
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 07:33:40 PM by norma427 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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It is 191.18 grams.

Norma,

I assume that the above number is incorrect. Did you mean 19.18?

Peter

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Norma,

I assume that the above number is incorrect. Did you mean 19.18?

Peter


Peter,

You are correct.  I made a typing error.  I will edit the number.

Norma
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Since I really donít know much of anything about doing hydration tests on flour I have no idea if my results in values were anywhere in the right range for moisture lose in the hydration test of the Caputo Extra/Blue flour.  I weighed the hydration test a few times last evening and this morning and it seems to have stabilized at 19.25 grams.  I donít know if that is right or not.  I have no idea why the values changed.

In the Moisture Content test Peter had referenced at http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/sites/default/files/ash.pdf they used a higher temperature to drive out the moisture of flours and different other methods.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Norma,

Yesterday, after I mentioned the Oregon State article, I decided to conduct the flour moisture bake test as described in that article. For the test, I decided to use the King Arthur bread flour (KABF). Since my bag of that flour is a fairly fresh one, I wanted to see how close to 14% the results would come. A moisture content of 14% is standard for most white flours, and is also the value I have been using for all of my calculations in reverse engineering projects. So, for the test I used 3 grams of KABF and baked it in my countertop toaster oven at 266 degrees F for one hour. At the end of that time, the flour had turned a light brown color. The numbers suggested a moisture content of almost 17%. I let the sample bake longer but the numbers were erratic. I think part of the problem was that the sample was too small and my scale is accurate to only 0.1 gram. That meant being off by only 0.1 gram changed the numbers by several percent. So, I decided to conduct a second test along the lines that I recommended to you and that you used. I had used that test with flour before when we were conducting hydration bake tests at the Mellow Mushroom thread, and similar tests with molasses products, so I thought that maybe that test method was more reliable for our purposes in a home setting.

For the second test, I used a 5-gram sample of the KABF and heated it in my toaster oven at about 212 degrees F until the weight stabilized. It took about three hours for the weight loss to stabilize. From the final weight value, I calculated that the moisture content of the KABF was 14%. The actual value might have been a bit higher or bit lower because of my scale limitations but the larger sample size reduced the error rate. Also, the color of the flour was only slightly changed. Like you, I then decided to leave the KABF sample uncovered to see if it would regain any of the moisture that it had lost because of the bake test. I left the sample overnight on my kitchen counter. I checked its weight a few times before going to bed and I saw that its value was gradually increasing, suggesting that it was taking moisture out of the air. By this morning, all of the moisture that had been lost through the bake test was completely regained. The weight of the flour sample was exactly the same as when I started the test. This was all quite fascinating to me since I had not thought before how flour left at room temperature can attract moisture from its environment and at what rate. I had read before that that sort of thing can happen quite quickly, which was the reason I suggested to you that you let your sample cool off for only a brief period, but I did not think that the flour could absorb the ambient moisture so quickly.

Of course, the above tests, and yours as well, beg the question about the effect of flour moisture on the gluten mass test results. I guess in your case you would need a fresh sample of the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour to see if the gluten mass test results are different. I guess the best we can say is that we learned something new.

Peter

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Norma,

Yesterday, after I mentioned the Oregon State article, I decided to conduct the flour moisture bake test as described in that article. For the test, I decided to use the King Arthur bread flour (KABF). Since my bag of that flour is a fairly fresh one, I wanted to see how close to 14% the results would come. A moisture content of 14% is standard for most white flours, and is also the value I have been using for all of my calculations in reverse engineering projects. So, for the test I used 3 grams of KABF and baked it in my countertop toaster oven at 266 degrees F for one hour. At the end of that time, the flour had turned a light brown color. The numbers suggested a moisture content of almost 17%. I let the sample bake longer but the numbers were erratic. I think part of the problem was that the sample was too small and my scale is accurate to only 0.1 gram. That meant being off by only 0.1 gram changed the numbers by several percent. So, I decided to conduct a second test along the lines that I recommended to you and that you used. I had used that test with flour before when we were conducting hydration bake tests at the Mellow Mushroom thread, and similar tests with molasses products, so I thought that maybe that test method was more reliable for our purposes in a home setting.

For the second test, I used a 5-gram sample of the KABF and heated it in my toaster oven at about 212 degrees F until the weight stabilized. It took about three hours for the weight loss to stabilize. From the final weight value, I calculated that the moisture content of the KABF was 14%. The actual value might have been a bit higher or bit lower because of my scale limitations but the larger sample size reduced the error rate. Also, the color of the flour was only slightly changed. Like you, I then decided to leave the KABF sample uncovered to see if it would regain any of the moisture that it had lost because of the bake test. I left the sample overnight on my kitchen counter. I checked its weight a few times before going to bed and I saw that its value was gradually increasing, suggesting that it was taking moisture out of the air. By this morning, all of the moisture that had been lost through the bake test was completely regained. The weight of the flour sample was exactly the same as when I started the test. This was all quite fascinating to me since I had not thought before how flour left at room temperature can attract moisture from its environment and at what rate. I had read before that that sort of thing can happen quite quickly, which was the reason I suggested to you that you let your sample cool off for only a brief period, but I did not think that the flour could absorb the ambient moisture so quickly.

Of course, the above tests, and yours as well, beg the question about the effect of flour moisture on the gluten mass test results. I guess in your case you would need a fresh sample of the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour to see if the gluten mass test results are different. I guess the best we can say is that we learned something new.

Peter

Peter,

Interesting that you decided to conduct two flours moisture bake tests.  Thanks for explaining your methods and results.  I didnít know that having a scale that is only accurate to 0.1 gram and using a smaller amount of flour would have changed the numbers by several percent in your first flour moisture bake test.

Using a 5 gram sample seemed to work out well for you in your second flour moisture bake test. I had also wondered at different times just how fast flour would gain moisture or loss moisture if not put into a plastic bag or sealed container.   Also interesting to hear that your second flour moisture bake test regained all of the moisture that had been lost thorough the bake test until this morning.  I guess the Caputo Extra/Blue didnít change in color at all since it isnít malted. 

I can understand your tests and my one test now kind of question the effect of flour moisture on the gluten mass test results.  Do you think it is even worth doing more wet gluten mass tests since I have no idea of what moisture contents the flours I have at home are?  I donít even know how fresh the samples are that Fred sent me.  I often think when I go to purchase 50 lb. bags of flour just how fresh they are, because the flours in the warehouse arenít kept air-conditioned.  I wonder at times if some of my differences in my pizzas at market or from flour that might not be fresh or have the same moisture content.  I guess we never will know just how much moisture content there is in different flours from the time they leave from where they are milled until we purchase them, or how that does change mixing, hydration, and final bakes of pizzas.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Norma,

I have researched flour moisture and humidity matters quite extensively in the past since humidity is often blamed by people who end up with soupy doughs. As best I can tell, under normal conditions, it can take some time for humidity to affect the moisture content of a given flour. In this vein, you might be interested in this item by Tom Lehmann: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3433.msg29165.html#msg29165. This morning, I checked the humidity in Manheim, PA and also where I live in Texas, and the humidity is 85% in Manheim and 73% where I am in Texas. I suspect that our very small samples of flour, as compared with bags and especially 50-pound bags, are more susceptible to the effects of humidity, even in the short term. I plan to keep my last KABF sample at room temperature for several more days, and maybe even longer, to see if its moisture content changes.

As far as continuing to conduct future gluten mass tests is concerned, I am a big proponent of such tests. I think the ones that have already been conducted have amply shown their merit, in the sense that the gluten mass numbers for the different kinds of flours appear to be in the right pecking order, and even within the normal grouping of flours (e.g., high-gluten, bread, all-purpose, etc.). The gluten mass numbers might be higher than one might achieve using the Glutomatic machine because that machine centrifuges the samples onto a screen from which the gluten masses are extracted and weighed  to arrive at a gluten index). But, as I noted before, I believe the relative values of the gluten masses are good enough for our purposes. For reverse engineering and cloning purposes, I think the gluten mass tests are among the best to use, along with the hydration bake tests. Knowing the moisture content of a flour is not a particularly useful test to me. Based on what Tom has said, that value will range from about 10-14%. That might affect some of the calculations I do, but I do not want to have to conduct flour moisture tests every time I want to do a calculation that involves the moisture content of the flour, especially since I tend to use fresh flours most of the time and, moreover, the calculations don't change that much with variations in flour moisture content.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 08:30:09 PM by Pete-zza »

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Peter,

Thanks for telling me and anyone else that might be interested that you have researched flour moisture and humidity matters quite extensively in the past and from your research it can take some time for humidity to affect the moisture content of a given flour.  Tom Lehmannís reply from your link was interesting.

I have also saved my moisture content test and weighed it again when I returned home from market.  It now weighs 19.30 grams so it is almost up to its original weight.  This morning when I thought the weight had stabilized it really didnít.

Good to hear you think the gluten mass numbers are relative values and good enough for our purposes.  Do you want me to start over to do gluten mass tests on the flours I have done the gluten mass tests on so far, or do you want me to do gluten mass tests on some other flours?  I have Kyrol flour now that I could do a gluten mass test on if you want me to try that next. 

I see from you one link at Reply 1 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3433.msg29172.html#msg29172 to pizzanapolentanaís post at Reply 7 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3014.msg25622.html#msg25622  that he said under certain storage condition/time can compromise the gluten forming ability of the flour. 

Norma
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Norma,

I am not at all surprised to learn that storage of flour can affect flour and its gluten mass quantity, fornation and qualities. Marco did not specify those effects but I did a Google search and found a report directly on point at http://www.international-agrophysics.org/artykuly/international_agrophysics/IntAgr_2003_17_2_71.pdf. As you will note from that report, long storage of flour can have both positive and negative effects on gluten formation and its retention of moisture and its rheological properties (the gluten index test), as measured by the amount of water extracted during centrifugation. (It might help to note that the water retained by the gluten after extraction is called absorbed water and the water lost by extraction by centrifuge is called non-absorbed water). Moreover, the report noted that soft flours, of which I would consider the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour to be an example, actually had certain improved properties when used to make baked goods that made them better to use than stronger flours.

There is no way to know without further testing of a fresh batch of the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour whether the gluten mass you achieved from your gluten mass test was compromised by the long storage time. Since we noted in the Master gluten mass list that the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour has a 2010 date, that it the best we can do at this point.

As for repeating past gluten mass tests, thank you for offering, but I am not sure what that would do for us. Your flours seem to be fairly fresh. Anyone conducting a gluten mass test will be at the mercy of the flour as it is constituted as of the time the test is conducted. If flour age is a factor in gluten formation, then that might show up in the gluten mass quantity and quality, depending on the particular flour in question and other factors.

I forgot that you have the Kyrol high-gluten flour. If you don't mind doing a gluten mass test on that flour, I would be interested in the results.

As a footnote, when I was researching the effects of storage on flour, I also learned that some of the vitamins added to flour also degrade with long storage of the flour. I believe that there are also changes in the lipids in flour. All of this serves to instruct us to use flour while it is fresh to get the best results and the fullest benefits.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 07:29:42 PM by Pete-zza »

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Norma,

I am not at all surprised to learn that storage of flour can affect flour and its gluten mass quantity, fornation and qualities. Marco did not specify those effects but I did a Google search and found a report directly on point at http://www.international-agrophysics.org/artykuly/international_agrophysics/IntAgr_2003_17_2_71.pdf. As you will note from that report, long storage of flour can have both positive and negative effects on gluten formation and its retention of moisture and its rheological properties (the gluten index test), as measured by the amount of water extracted during centrifugation. (It might help to note that the water retained by the gluten after extraction is called absorbed water and the water lost by extraction by centrifuge is called non-absorbed water). Moreover, the report noted that soft flours, of which I would consider the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour to be an example, actually had certain improved properties when used to make baked goods that made them better to use than stronger flours.

There is no way to know without further testing of a fresh batch of the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour whether the gluten mass you achieved from your gluten mass test was compromised by the long storage time. Since we noted in the Master gluten mass list that the Caputo Extra/Blue 00 flour has a 2010 date, that it the best we can do at this point.

As for repeating past gluten mass tests, thank you for offering, but I am not sure what that would do for us. Your flours seem to be fairly fresh. Anyone conducting a gluten mass test will be at the mercy of the flour as it is constituted as of the time the test is conducted. If flour age is a factor in gluten formation, then that might show up in the gluten mass quantity and quality, depending on the particular flour in question and other factors.

I forgot that you have the Kyrol high-gluten flour. If you don't mind doing a gluten mass test on that flour, I would be interested in the results.

As a footnote, when I was researching the effects of storage on flour, I also learned that some of the vitamins added to flour also degrade with long storage of the flour. I believe that there are also changes in the lipids in flour. All of this serves to instruct us to use flour while it is fresh to get the best results and the fullest benefits.

Peter

Peter,

I find that article you referenced on storage of flours very interesting.  I see one of the results indicated that different effects of wheat storage had to do with different wheat cultivars and saw where the lower protein flour faired better in its ability to absorb water and a better forming gluten structure.  I wonder if I try some of my old Caputo Extra/Blue flour on my Caputo thread in a home oven how it would fair.  I purchased the Caputo Extra/Blue flour at an Italian grocery store in Lancaster, but donít think they handle it anymore.  I might have to call them and see if they now carry the Caputo Extra/Blue to do another gluten mass test.  The lower protein flour also showed the trend of the gluten to strengthen the rheological  properties as the storage of the flour increases.  The higher gluten flour loses its absorption properties faster. 

This is another article comparing two flours in temperatures of storage .for 270 days.  It showed that both flours had more soluble protein when stored at higher temperatures.  http://cerealchemistry.aaccnet.org/doi/abs/10.1094/CCHEM-85-3-0335

I didnít know that some of the vitamins added to flour also degrade with long storage of flours.  I have so many flours and might need to get rid of some of them because some of them might have outlived their flour lives.  I understand now that having all the flours that I have at home is not a good idea.   

I will do the gluten mass test on the Kyrol high-gluten flour later this week.  I also have Occident flour that is bromated if you want me to do a gluten mass test on it. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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I also have Occident flour that is bromated if you want me to do a gluten mass test on it. 

Norma,

That would be fine. The more the merrier.

Peter

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I did the wet gluten mass test on the Kyrol flour this morning using the same methods as described before in this thread.  The weight of the Kyrol gluten mass test was 106 grams after washing.

As a side note, I think, but am not sure, that I read awhile ago that some AP and bread flours varies in protein contents from region to region. 

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Norma,

Thank you for conducting the gluten mass test on the Kyrol high-gluten flour. I have updated (below) the Master list to include the Kyrol flour. I believe that the Kyrol flour is 13.8 +/- 0.3% protein. If that turns out not to be right, I will correct the Master list.

Master Gluten Mass List (as of 3/22/12)

KASL (King Arthur Sir Lancelot): 4.1 ounces, or 116.235 grams (14.2 +/- 0.2% protein)
All Trumps (bromated, bleached): 3.81 ounces, or 108 grams (14.2 +/- 0.3% protein)
Power (Pendleton): 3.8 ounces, or 107.73 grams (13.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Kyrol (bleached, bromated): 3.74 ounces, or 106 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
ADM Gigantic: 3.42 ounces, or 96.89 grams (14.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KABF (King Arthur Bread Flour): 2.68 ounces, or 75.978 grams (12.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Caputo 00 Rinforzato: 2.66 ounces, or 75.43 grams (12.5 +/- 0.50% protein)
Caputo 00 Pizzeria: 2.54 ounces, or 72.12 grams (11.5-12.5% protein)
Mondako (bleached, Pendleton): 2.354 ounces, or 66.75 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
Better for Bread (aka Harvest King): 2.306 ounces, or 65.3751 grams (12.0 +/- 0.3% protein)
KAAP (King Arthur All-Purpose): 2.297 ounces, or 65.11995 grams (11.7 +/- 0.2% protein)
Ceresota All-Purpose: 2.114 ounces, or 59.93 grams (12% protein)
Caputo Extra/Blue 00: 2.06 ounces, or 58.38 grams (11 +/- 0.5% protein) (Note: expiration date of flour = 2010)

You are correct about variances in protein content from region to region. There are many factors that come into play from a flour protein content standpoint. These include the wheat cultivar, the growing area, the growing season, the weather and the time of harvest. Millers try to adjust for these factors as best they can through blending of different flours, with the objective of delivering a product to the end user that does not differ materially over the course of the year. Of course, there are limitations to this since so many factors are beyond the miller's control. Fortunately, in the U.S., we are amazingly blessed from a geographical standpoint. The American Midwest, where wheat and many other crops are grown, is the world's largest contiguous piece of farmland. So, we have choices and options that no other country in the world has.

Peter

« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 08:35:56 AM by Pete-zza »

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Peter,

Thanks for posting more about variances in protein content from region to region and what factors come into play.

On another note, I think I am going to throw away my moisture hydration test with the Caputo Extra/Blue flour.  For awhile the weight kept changing and was around 19.35 grams.  Today since it is fairly humid in our area the weight of the hydration test with the Caputo Extra/Blue flour is 19.47 grams.  I guess flour can become heavier in ambient moisture than it originally was. 

Either tonight or tomorrow I would do the gluten mass test on the Occident Bleached Bromated flour.  I have no idea what protein content that flour has.

Norma
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The gluten mass test was done on the Occident Bleached Bromated flour this morning using the same methods as before.  The weight of the gluten mass test after washing was 2.7 ounces.

This seems like an alternative way to wash out all the starches or other substances in flour. 

How to separate the gluten from wheat flour. First you must wash out all the starches from a mixture of flour and water as follows:
1. Mix a small amount of flour (about 8 ounces) with just enough water to form a stiff ball of dough.
2. Soak the ball of dough in water for about 30 minutes.
3. Over a fine mesh sieve, and under running water from a faucet, wash out all the starch. When all the starch has been removed the water will run clear.
http://thebakerynetwork.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/baking-and-baking-science/

I wonder if that method might work better or the same as the method that is being used. 

Sometime I would like to separate glutenin and gliadin from gluten to if that works.

Once you have washed out the starches, you end up with raw wet gluten. If you soak the ball of gluten in pure ethyl alcohol, the glutenin and the gliadin will separate out. The gliadin is the sticky part and will form long tiny silky looking strands when touched with the finger. The glutenin on the other hand will look and feel like tough raw rubber.

I also have Pillsbury bread flour and King Arthur cake flour at home, but donít think too many members used those flours for making pizzas, so there probably wouldnít be any use doing gluten mass tests on them.

Norma
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Sometime I would like to separate glutenin and gliadin from gluten to if that works... If you soak the ball of gluten in pure ethyl alcohol, the glutenin and the gliadin will separate out.
Norma,
I know this method is used for raw flour, but I am not entirely sure that this method would work once the gluten molecule has been formed. The two molecules are covalently joined by a disulphide bridge, which typically needs an enzyme or a low pH to break the bond. If you would like, I can review the literature tonight to see if their is a feasible and observable method for extracting the two subunits once the molecule has been formed. Otherwise, given the weight of the gluten mass, assuming it is 100% pure gluten, I could calculate the molecular weights of both subunits and apply it to your recorded weight to give you a crude idea of how much glutenin and gliadin are in your gluten masses.
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