Jim Lahey’s new book titled “MY PIZZA”

[thezaman]

 norma just picked it up.thr dough has 3% salt in it .that surprised me. you pizza from the recipe looks real well made. his sauce is canned or fresh tomatoes a little evoo ans a little salt that is it.

[norma427]

norma just picked it up.thr dough has 3% salt in it .that surprised me. you pizza from the recipe looks real well made. his sauce is canned or fresh tomatoes a little evoo ans a little salt that is it.

Larry,

Thanks so much for posting that Jim’s books says to use 3% salt in the dough.  That seems to be more in line with a Neapolitan dough.  Does that make sense to you?  Since I really don’t know what baker’s percents to try in my next attempt, I guess I will go with 3% now.  I might make a dough Monday night for Tuesday.  Do you plan on trying Jim Lahey’s no-knead pizza? 

Thanks for also posting that Jim’s sauce is canned or fresh tomatoes with a little evoo and a little salt.

Norma

[totally_baked]

Hey Norma.

Thanks for starting this thread. 

I just bought the book and read it cover to cover last night.  (Had I found this post yesterday, it would have saved me the price of the book and the shipping.)  Also, thanks to all of you for your awesome comments.  Sometimes I feel like I'm in a vacuum (out here in La-La Land) and it's nice to have some "feedback" every once in a while to confirm what I think I know and also so I know I'm not totally off in right field. 

However, since I did buy the book, I thought I might add one or two quick comments to the conversation that might be helpful.  These books are not necessarily worth the price you pay for them unless you do your homework, I find.  For me, one or two tips from a book like this can change the way I do something and improve my technique (and pizza) drastically.  Like you all, I take this stuff very seriously.  So, here are a few things I'll contribute for now.

1)  Correction:  Lahey's salt percentage is 3.2%, not 3%.  16 grams of fine sea salt compared with 500 grams of flour.  It's not that important but...since we're splitting hairs here, I thought I'd try to set the record straight for all those who didn't buy the book.   

2)  Lahey names his "favorite tool of all" as the UNDERUSED SLICING BLADE on his BOX GRATER.  To me, this is very useful.  People spend so much money on French mandolins and food processors when the underused slicing blade can do it all and many of us already own it, though we don't know it.  For me, his thinly sliced vegetables on his pizza bianca from Sullivan Street Bakery are one of the key elements to the success of his product.  Obviously, the dough it kick-ass too but you gotta slice those veggies extra-thin if you're going to apply them raw.  They do the same at Forno Campo di Fiori, his alma mater. 

Fast-forward to 1:00 on this youtube vid for examples of oh-so-perfectly sliced veggies on pizza bianca.  Italian bakery porn with cheezy music at it's best...

<a href="http://youtu.be/OStb8ac3KSE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://youtu.be/OStb8ac3KSE</a>

3)  For the initiated, I think johnnydoubleu's comment on "low knead" is right on.  No knead is illuminating to some and may bring the couch potatoes into the kitchen for a minute or two but it's not the answer to our dreams here on pizzamaking.  For me it's just a gentle reminder that less is often more when it comes to mixing artisanal breads and pizzas. 

Cheers!
totally_baked

[parallei]

The bakers percentages I posted came from the Bon Appetite Jim Lahey’s No-Knead Pizza Dough article Norma linked to here:

http://www.bonappetit.com/recipes/2012/03/no-knead-pizza-dough

Bon Appetite Lahey Recipe

I assumed it made 6 @ 12-inch pies to get the TF of 0.09

Flour 100%
Water 71%
ADY 0.2%
Salt 2%
TF =0.09

The Serious Eats Lahey No-Knead Pizza Dough Recipe

linked here:

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/03/jim-laheys-no-knead-pizza-dough-recipe.html

Would be:

Flour 100%
Water 70%
ADY 0.2%
Salt 3.2%

I didn't notice a skin size for the Serious Eats recipe and video, but they said four balls so:

Their weight of dough was 867g or 30.6 oz.

4 @ 12-inch pies, TF = 0.068
4 @ 10-inch pies, TF = 0.097

[norma427]

Hey Norma.

Thanks for starting this thread. 

I just bought the book and read it cover to cover last night.  (Had I found this post yesterday, it would have saved me the price of the book and the shipping.)  Also, thanks to all of you for your awesome comments.  Sometimes I feel like I'm in a vacuum (out here in La-La Land) and it's nice to have some "feedback" every once in a while to confirm what I think I know and also so I know I'm not totally off in right field. 

However, since I did buy the book, I thought I might add one or two quick comments to the conversation that might be helpful.  These books are not necessarily worth the price you pay for them unless you do your homework, I find.  For me, one or two tips from a book like this can change the way I do something and improve my technique (and pizza) drastically.  Like you all, I take this stuff very seriously.  So, here are a few things I'll contribute for now.

1)  Correction:  Lahey's salt percentage is 3.2%, not 3%.  16 grams of fine sea salt compared with 500 grams of flour.  It's not that important but...since we're splitting hairs here, I thought I'd try to set the record straight for all those who didn't buy the book.   

2)  Lahey names his "favorite tool of all" as the UNDERUSED SLICING BLADE on his BOX GRATER.  To me, this is very useful.  People spend so much money on French mandolins and food processors when the underused slicing blade can do it all and many of us already own it, though we don't know it.  For me, his thinly sliced vegetables on his pizza bianca from Sullivan Street Bakery are one of the key elements to the success of his product.  Obviously, the dough it kick-ass too but you gotta slice those veggies extra-thin if you're going to apply them raw.  They do the same at Forno Campo di Fiori, his alma mater. 

Fast-forward to 1:00 on this youtube vid for examples of oh-so-perfectly sliced veggies on pizza bianca.  Italian bakery porn with cheezy music at it's best...
http://youtu.be/OStb8ac3KSE

3)  For the initiated, I think johnnydoubleu's comment on "low knead" is right on.  No knead is illuminating to some and may bring the couch potatoes into the kitchen for a minute or two but it's not the answer to our dreams here on pizzamaking.  For me it's just a gentle reminder that less is often more when it comes to mixing artisanal breads and pizzas. 

Cheers!
totally_baked

totally_baked,

I believe most of the active members on this forum are always trying to learn more about anything related to pizza and how that information will help each of us make better pizzas.

I find your comment quite interesting that the price of the book really isn’t necessarily worth the price that is paid unless the homework is done.  I am glad you found some things in Jim Lahey’s book useful. 

Thanks so much for giving the correction that Lahey’s salt percentage is 3.2%.  I never thought of using a slicing blade on the box cutter for thinly sliced vegetables.  That is very helpful.  I also tasted those slices of Jim Lahey’s pizza bianca with the thinly sliced vegetables and also thought they were great.  I didn’t know either that Forno Campo di Fiori was Jim Lahey’s alma mater. 

I agree that the video you posted sure is Italian bakery porn.   

I also agree that no-knead isn’t really the answer to our dreams here on pizzamaking.com, but find it interesting to experiment.

I see you take a serious approach to making your pizzas which is great. 

Norma

[norma427]

The bakers percentages I posted came from the Bon Appetite Jim Lahey’s No-Knead Pizza Dough article Norma linked to here:

http://www.bonappetit.com/recipes/2012/03/no-knead-pizza-dough

Bon Appetite Lahey Recipe

I assumed it made 6 @ 12-inch pies to get the TF of 0.09

Flour 100%
Water 71%
ADY 0.2%
Salt 2%
TF =0.09

The Serious Eats Lahey No-Knead Pizza Dough Recipe

linked here:

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/03/jim-laheys-no-knead-pizza-dough-recipe.html

Would be:

Flour 100%
Water 70%
ADY 0.2%
Salt 3.2%

I didn't notice a skin size for the Serious Eats recipe and video, but they said four balls so:

Their weight of dough was 867g or 30.6 oz.

4 @ 12-inch pies, TF = 0.068
4 @ 10-inch pies, TF = 0.097

Paul,

Sorry for all the confusion for you in figuring out the bakers percentages.  I appreciate you are willing to do the calculations for anyone that is interested.  I sure am one that is interested. 

Thanks again! 

Norma

[parallei]

Your welcome Norma.  No confusion, just different versions of the same approach floating around.  I'm sure there will be others!

Paul

[norma427]

Your welcome Norma.  No confusion, just different versions of the same approach floating around.  I'm sure there will be others!

Paul

Paul,

Thanks for your patience.  Hope you don’t have to do anymore bakers percentage calculations if there are more versions floating around.

Norma

[thezaman]

 one area am having trouble with is he goes from bulk to individual balls and i do not think he incorporates a rest period. i have just glanced at the book i may have missed that point,or it may not be necessary with his method.

[totally_baked]

@thezaman - I would assume that there is a rest period and that this is an oversight.  Any bakery or pizzeria would give it a rest period but this book is meant for amateurs so your guess is as good as mine.  I'm assuming that, if you tried stretching the dough ball too quickly, it would tear.  Have you tried?

Best guess:  give a rest of at least two hours at room temp (72F) - preferably more.

[norma427]

Larry,

I agree with totally_baked that the dough balls would need a rest period after he goes from bulk to individual dough balls.  I don’t see how the gluten would rearrange itself enough to be able to open them right away. 

Norma

[thezaman]

 so far i am happy with the lahey book. lots of creative pizzas. i made a batch of dough early this morning it is proofing in a warm area and may be ready with a 14 hour rise.not sure it will work without a rest from bulk to balls, i will see. a 30 minute rest might be all it needs. he does go into electric oven set up that claims to get 600 degrees. by opening the door for a period of time the broiler works overtime getting the temperature up some.
 he comment on his pizza background and states that a lot of pizza in naples is of low quality designed for the tourists. he mentions under proofed dough as a problem in some pizzerias, also the lack of ingredient quality. da michele's is highly regarded by mr. lahey.
 

[norma427]

so far i am happy with the lahey book. lots of creative pizzas. i made a batch of dough early this morning it is proofing in a warm area and may be ready with a 14 hour rise.not sure it will work without a rest from bulk to balls, i will see. a 30 minute rest might be all it needs. he does go into electric oven set up that claims to get 600 degrees. by opening the door for a period of time the broiler works overtime getting the temperature up some.
 he comment on his pizza background and states that a lot of pizza in naples is of low quality designed for the tourists. he mentions under proofed dough as a problem in some pizzerias, also the lack of ingredient quality. da michele's is highly regarded by mr. lahey.
 

Larry,

Nice to hear so far you are satisfied with Jim Lahey’s book.  I will be interested after you try a pizza how satisfied you will be. Glad to hear you are also trying a go at Jim’s no-knead pizza dough.  I think Kenji mentioned on Slice that Jim Lahey used a Jenn Air oven and no convection for the dough balls Kenji and him tried out.  Thanks for telling more what is in Jim's book.  I thought most pizzas in Naples were supposed to be good, but I had a friend that brought me back lots of pictures of pizzas and I didn’t think they look as good as most members produce here on the forum.  

I sure would like to be able to try a da michele’s  pizza sometime, but that probably is not ever going to happen.

My mom really enjoyed the slices I took her for a reheat.  She said anything I wanted to make Jim’s dough again she is ready to eat more.  If I have time tomorrow evening I am going to mix up enough dough for one pizza to try at market.

Norma

[scott123]

I do think Scott has some valid points though, but I have yet to hear the suggestions (specific and concrete, not blanket) of what Jim should be saying, just hearing that what he said isn't up to snuff. If he should have suggested a different stone or material what is it? If he shouldn't suggest cranking your oven as high as it should go what should he be, that we all need a particular kind of oven or what? If the bake time is erroneous what should it be? Is it reasonable to expect that everyone who buys the book has access to thick steel, a bangin' oven and an IR thermometer? Of course not, that is just totally unrealistic and would be a different book alltogether, one with a much smaller market of potential customers that is for sure.

Based upon Jim's previous comments in videos, I made the assumption that he was going to be relatively oven setup agnostic. This assumption turned out to be incorrect.  Until I'm able to read the book, though, I still don't have all the details so I'm waiting to comment further.

Jim Lahey is, imo, a 'diehard enthusiast' bread maker, and, from accounts of people that have eaten his pizza, he appears equally obsessive in that realm as well.   I expect more from him, and, hopefully, once I'm able to read the oven related sections of the book in their entirety, he will meet my expectations.

[thezaman]

  i made my first batch of pizza from the book. i can say that you can make good pizza with the recipe it is complicated and will take practice. it will also take work to get a good oven setup. the dough is ultra wet. it takes a lot of flour to dry the exterior enough to work it into balls.it will take a short rest from ball to make to relax the gluten. you have to fold the dough into a circle you cannot work it like a normal hydrated dough. a lot of bench flour is needed on the work surface and peel.you also have to work very fast or it will stick.
 i used my little cusinart pizza oven which only produces a 11 inch pizza.it has a nice broiling element an i though it would get the stone ultra hot. in the stock set up it was stuck at 500 degrees. my first three pizzas cooked for 15 minutes way to long and got no color to the dough.for my last attempt i put a 2 inch pan under the stone moving the stone to 4 inches of the broiler.this pizza cooked in 6 minutes and had the characteristics of a coal style pizza.i put the sauce over the cheese to protect the cheese from the broiler. this was a good tasting pizza. if i use this oven again i will set it up using a spacer to get the stone to 4 inches from the broiler.i will reduce the dough from 220 grams to maybe 195. this will produce a quicker bake.
 in summery it will take a lot to produce the type of pizza represented in the book. if this book is being purchased by someone with pizza and bread background it will be a good investment. a newbie that had luck with the no need bread book might struggle with this.
 one other point the 3.2% salt is to much i will reduce that amount next bake to 2.5%

[norma427]

Larry,

Thanks so much for posting your results with the no-knead pizza dough.  I like the characteristics of your coal style pizza.   

Norma

[johnnydoubleu]

Well I made a pie yesterday that used a similar method to the one Jim suggests in the book and the reality is that it was far more Di Fara than Forcella and validated a lot of what Scott has pointed out. It was delicious but it was not like a WFO Neapolitan. The main reason for the difference was that my total time was around 6 minutes as I have an underpowered, underperforming gas drawer broiler oven (bottom of the line, not top) -- nothing like the Jenn-Air pro series that Jim apparently uses. For me to get closer to a WFO Neapolitan I have to (would have to) take a different approach and probably use a slightly enriched dough.

[norma427]

I used the same formulation for the Lahey’s dough I used the last time, but just changed the flour to KAAP to see what would happen.  The dough was mixed last evening.  I sure don’t know what happened, but the dough wasn’t sticky like before.  I have no explanation why the dough wasn’t sticky except the plastic bag I had the KAAP stored in the ziplock closure has broken and the flour was exposed to ambient room humidity.  I really don‘t think that is why the dough wasn‘t really sticky though. It has been fermenting at room temperature of about 70 degrees F overnight.

Norma

[norma427]

Bobino414 (Bob) told me last evening that Jim Lahey was a guest on the Martha Stewart (Hallmark channel) yesterday making his no-knead dough with Martha Stewart.  Bob said he couldn’t find the link for the show, but I found it if anyone is interested. http://www.marthastewart.com/898669/spring-pizzas  Bob told me I could post the link if I wanted.

Thanks Bob, for telling me that Jim Lahey made his dough and baked his pizzas on the Martha Stewart show.  

Norma

[norma427]

Jim Lahey’s no knead pizza did turn out okay, but there really wasn’t much of any flavor in the crust like I thought there should be. I don't understand why that is.  I still don’t have any idea of why the dough didn’t feel the hydration that is was. The dough was balled and left at room temperature for about 2 hrs. before trying to open it. The pizza was made after about 18 hrs. total time at room temperature fermentation.  The bottom crust did brown better than in my home oven and there was some oven spring, but I wouldn’t say this pizza had better flavors in the crust than other pies I have made.

Norma