Author Topic: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow  (Read 44409 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2012, 04:09:36 PM »
Norma,
I have seen several saucing methods for Sicilian Pies, one is the squeeze bottle "striping" approach you are currently using. Maybe you could try making a double row of sauce or crisscross like you were planning.

Another approach is to coat the pie in sauce over the cheese i.e. the L&B approach.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17168.msg176003.html#msg176003
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17168.msg175986.html#msg175986
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17168.msg172935.html#msg172935

Alternatively, you could use the Umberto's approach to saucing, making irregular dollops of sauce all over the pie.
http://gothamist.com/2012/02/03/ny_pizza_gets_police_escort_to_lagu.php
https://pmq.com/mag/2004march_april/secretrecipe.shtml
http://www.comfortinthekitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/umbertos.jpg

All of which in my opinion produce great results. For the most part, it comes down to preference, yours and your customers.

Jim,

Thanks so much for all the links for methods in applying the sauce.  :) I think I might try the Umbertoís method next week.  It would be easier applying the sauce that way, than fooling around with a bottle.

Norma


Offline JimmyG

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #76 on: April 04, 2012, 04:21:45 PM »
Quote
...although that last Umberto's pic (http://www.comfortinthekitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/umbertos.jpg) looks friggin' incredible.
Craig,
In my opinion they have the best Sicilian in the state and they were voted best Pizza on Long Island.  Umberto's is definitely worth the visit next time your in NYC (only 30 mins outside the city in New Hyde Park, just off the Long Island Express way).

Norma,
You are most certainly welcome.  :) I should add, the top two links are the grandma style and the bottom is their Sicilian. While the sauce ingredients for the Sicilian and the grandma are different, their method for applying the sauces is virtual identical. I do believe that the Sicilian sauce is thinner than the grandma to deal with the extended baking time. Something to consider.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 04:24:40 PM by JimmyG »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #77 on: April 04, 2012, 04:28:48 PM »

Norma,
You are most certainly welcome.  :) I should add, the top two links are the grandma style and the bottom is their Sicilian. While the sauce ingredients for the Sicilian and the grandma are different, their method for applying the sauces is virtual identical. I do believe that the Sicilian sauce is thinner than the grandma to deal with the extended baking time. Something to consider.

Jim,

Thanks for telling me the Sicilian sauce is thinner because of the longer bake.  I will take that into consideration.  I was surprised that my bake Tuesday really wasnít that long. 

Norma

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2012, 04:39:38 PM »
Norma,
Really, ??? that is interesting. Do you have any ideas why that was or what your baking times were? I think 525F is right where you should be as far as temp is concerned.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2012, 04:51:07 PM »
Norma,
Really, ??? that is interesting. Do you have any ideas why that was or what your baking times were? I think 525F is right where you should be as far as temp is concerned.

Jim,

I am not exactly sure how long the bake was, but it seemed to be about 8 minutes.  Steve and I both commented that the bake was shorter than what we thought it would be.  I can time it for you next week if you want.  I didnít know that 525 degree F seems to be right for this type of pizza.

Norma

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #80 on: April 04, 2012, 05:02:01 PM »
Norma,
If you remember, feel free to time it. If not no worries.

Quote
I didnít know that 525 degree F seems to be right for this type of pizza.

Yeah, between 485F to 535F is pretty normal. I typically bake my Sicilians 525F too, for me that is my sweet spot with these styles. Typically, it will take me about 10-14 mins, depending on how often I open the oven.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2012, 05:07:43 PM »
Norma,
If you remember, feel free to time it. If not no worries.

Yeah, between 485F to 535F is pretty normal. I typically bake my Sicilians 525F too, for me that is my sweet spot with these styles. Typically, it will take me about 10-14 mins, depending on how often I open the oven.

Jim,

I will try to remember to time the bake with my cellphone.  I wonder if since my deck oven has a lower head space if that is why it baked in a shorter time.  I will wait until I take the bake time next week to see if actually that was my bake time.

Norma

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2012, 07:08:21 PM »
Jim,

I will try to remember to time the bake with my cellphone.  I wonder if since my deck oven has a lower head space if that is why it baked in a shorter time.  I will wait until I take the bake time next week to see if actually that was my bake time.

Norma

\

Norma, I believe the lower head space of your oven has a lot to do with your bake time. I baked a very similar pie at 475 for 18 minutes in the smaller of the two ovens in my dual deck oven. The heat is in a smaller space, thus is more concentrated. 525 would be too high in my particular oven, it would cook the outside too fast and leave the center doughy. I like my pies cooked well through, when a dough like this is not cooked through well, it is awful heavy. Even with a Sicilian, I like to keep the dough as light as possible.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2012, 07:45:45 PM »
\

Norma, I believe the lower head space of your oven has a lot to do with your bake time. I baked a very similar pie at 475 for 18 minutes in the smaller of the two ovens in my dual deck oven. The heat is in a smaller space, thus is more concentrated. 525 would be too high in my particular oven, it would cook the outside too fast and leave the center doughy. I like my pies cooked well through, when a dough like this is not cooked through well, it is awful heavy. Even with a Sicilian, I like to keep the dough as light as possible.

Dave,

Thanks for telling me what temperature you bake at and your bake time and telling me you believe the lower head space in my deck oven has a lot to do with the bake time I had, or thought I had.

I also like my pies cooked well through.  I am trying to keep my attempts at making the Sicilian pies as light as I can.

I will see what the bake time is for next Tuesday.  That also can change if I put regular pizzas in and out of the top of the deck.  When Steve and I baked the pie on Tuesday it was a slow time, so I would guess the oven temperature stayed higher.

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #84 on: April 09, 2012, 06:15:14 PM »
I mixed another dough this morning for another attempt for a Sicilian pizza at market.  Everything was kept the same except I upped the IDY amount in the formulation, because it will only be cold fermenting for one day instead of two days like before.

I used the flat beater again to start mixing the dough in the Kitchen Aid mixer and then went to the dough hook.  The dough felt nice.  If I want to use this dough for market, either I will have to do a one day cold ferment or try for a 4 day cold ferment. 

Norma

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #85 on: April 09, 2012, 07:09:05 PM »
Norma,
 I am forgetting if you mentioned this last time, but did you decide to drop the TF from .15 to .14? In any case, I look forward to seeing your results.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #86 on: April 09, 2012, 09:04:56 PM »
Norma,
 I am forgetting if you mentioned this last time, but did you decide to drop the TF from .15 to .14? In any case, I look forward to seeing your results.

Jim,

I replied at Reply 60 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18281.msg180372.html#msg180372  that I had kept the TF the same.  The TF was 0.15 since the beginning of this thread.  I liked that TF so far.  Thanks for posting that you look forward to my results.  I didnít have time to mix the dough yesterday and figured if I ever use the dough for pizzas for market, I would need to make some changes to see if it could be used for market, because I could Ďt ever do a two cold ferment.  This should be a good test to see if the crust changes flavors from a 1 day cold ferment.

Norma

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2012, 09:28:18 PM »
Okay, there it is.
Quote
I liked that TF so far.
Given your results to this point Norma, I don't fault you one bit for not changing it. It looks like you have your crust dialed in.  :chef:
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 09:30:47 PM by JimmyG »
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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #88 on: April 09, 2012, 09:29:42 PM »
BTW what did you up your IDY% to?
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #89 on: April 09, 2012, 09:57:34 PM »
BTW what did you up your IDY% to?

Jim,

I did up the IDY, but didnít do it on the expanded dough calculating tool.  I just upped it from 2.06 grams to 3.06 grams.  I know that isnít the best approach, but I can always let it sit out longer at ambient room temps to let it ferment more if it doesnít look fermented enough.  I might need to change the IDY amount if the bake goes okay tomorrow.  If the taste of the crust stays decent with a one day cold ferment, then I will have to work on the amount of IDY.

Norma

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #90 on: April 09, 2012, 10:18:29 PM »
Norma,
Based on your original post: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18281.msg177127.html#msg177127, it looks like you are now at 0.59% compared with 0.4%. So a slight increase. Good luck tomorrow. 
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #91 on: April 09, 2012, 10:31:38 PM »
Norma,
Based on your original post: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18281.msg177127.html#msg177127, it looks like you are now at 0.59% compared with 0.4%. So a slight increase. Good luck tomorrow. 


Jim,

Thanks for calculating what percentage of increase there was in the IDY. I am not good at calculating.  That sure wasnít much. I used the formulation at Reply 26   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18281.msg178345.html#msg178345 when I changed from ADY to IDY.  Thanks also for the good luck tomorrow.   :)

Norma


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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2012, 01:17:12 PM »
Pie is coming along Norma! :) Looks sort of like a Brooklyn/Detroit Sicilian mashup!

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For those that aren't aware: Ceresota is the same flour as Heckers. They use the names for marketing in different regions. I like it, though I find it a little gray/ashy.

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2012, 09:40:17 PM »
Pie is coming along Norma! :) Looks sort of like a Brooklyn/Detroit Sicilian mashup!


johnnydoubleu,

Yes, I guess the attempts I have been trying for a Sicilian pie, kind of might be like a Brooklyn/Detroit Sicilian mashup.  :-D

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #94 on: April 11, 2012, 08:17:46 AM »
The Sicilian dough with the one day cold ferment worked out okay.  The texture and taste of the crumb was almost like last week.  The bake was timed on my cell phone and on Steveís cell phone and it was over 13 minutes and closer to 14 minutes.  I think the pie could have been pulled from the oven at around 13 minutes, but at the time I was busy waiting on customers.  My guess time of 8 minutes last week was way off on the bake time.  I am not sure if I like how the sauce was applied and still am undecided how to apply the sauce.  I am also undecided if I want to try another flour in the same formulation or make other tweaks to the formulation.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #95 on: April 11, 2012, 08:18:52 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #96 on: April 11, 2012, 08:20:03 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #97 on: April 11, 2012, 08:21:20 AM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #98 on: April 11, 2012, 08:22:20 AM »
Norma

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Re: Trying a different Sicilian pie tomorrow
« Reply #99 on: April 11, 2012, 08:23:13 AM »
Norma