Author Topic: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!  (Read 24655 times)

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Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #120 on: January 19, 2013, 09:37:57 PM »
Excellent results, Nick!  The pics do a nice job of showing off your handiwork.

I was instantly reminded of the old PH thin-n-crispy pizzas ... back when they were good.  ;D

-ME
Let them eat pizza.


Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #121 on: January 20, 2013, 12:29:12 AM »
Awesome looking pies
Who put that pie in my eye ?

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #122 on: January 20, 2013, 04:38:08 PM »
Thanks guys! I had had some inquiries on my procedure. So I decided to try it again. I wanted to see if my procedure was right or if I was giving out the wrong info. I followed the dough calculator, and I ended up with a wonderful pie. I have been asked how I came up with it. This was not at all my own idea, but was the combining of several great ideas from the master pizza makers on the forum. Without their help and tips I would never have come up with a crust that I love. Thanks to everyone here for their help. By the way ThatsAmore, Leons on Brookside has a pretty nice thin crust pizza. I  have had it twice and enjoyed both times.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 05:46:29 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #123 on: March 10, 2013, 06:37:58 PM »
I was sharing ideas with another pizza lover, and he told me about a pizza joint that used AP flour and lard. He said it was very tasty. Since I was out of KABF, and had some KAAP flour I thought I would give it a try. I used the same ingredient amounts as the past pies. I let the dough work in the fridge for 2 days instead of my normal 1 day. I also used Centro crushed tomatoes  for the sauce. I drained the liquid, and  added Fennel seeds and Italian seasonings to the tomatoes. I used my stick blender to turn the tomatoes into a puree. Cooked the pie the same way as usual.
 The crust was very good. It was not as cracker like as my last. It was more like Domino's or Little Caesar's thin crust pizza. It had a softer snap to the bite than my other pizzas. It was more dense but not chewy. It was quite good. I will use AP flour again when in a pinch. It was still better than most chain pizzas.
A NOTE: I said to follow the dough calculator in the first page of the thread. I made a mistake on the oil amount. It should be 3.5 tablespoons of oil, not 3.5 teaspoons. I have noted this change later in the thread, but I had told people to follow the amount in the calculator. I have used 3.5 tablespoons for the last 3 or four pies in this thread. It makes a lot of difference in how lite and crakery the crust is.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #124 on: March 10, 2013, 06:42:09 PM »
I used Centro tomatoes for the sauce with Italian seasonings, and some fresh crushed black peppercorns. I layered the sauce on the skin then added Parm cheese then half of the Mozz cheese, then mushrooms, olives, grilled chicken, and then the rest of the Mozz. It tasted wonderful, and no gummy dough layer.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 06:50:18 PM by nick57 »

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #125 on: March 10, 2013, 06:43:47 PM »
Nice thin slices.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #126 on: March 10, 2013, 06:45:12 PM »
I docked the skin pretty heavy, but still got some nice bubbles and lamination.

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #127 on: March 10, 2013, 06:48:00 PM »
Nice browning on the bottom. I was surprised how different the crust turned out. But, it was a very good tasting pizza and crust. I will use AP flour again for a cracker crust.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 06:51:51 PM by nick57 »

Offline dboersma

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #128 on: April 17, 2013, 12:23:11 PM »
I've been making another cracker crust recipe from this site
http://www.pizzamaking.com/thincrust.php

A few things to note is I have a sheeter and I fold it about 5 times through the sheeter flouring each layer before the next fold.  I am able to layer it into several layers so it puffs up to about 5mm - 10mm thick with many crackery layers.  I want to par bake it so I can make frozen pizza for later use.  I par bake it at about 500 deg F for about 6 minutes.  They come out amazing.  However after cooling for several hours on the wire rack about 20% or so of them will slowly develop cracks all over them rendering them useless.  Upon trying to use them they usually crack in half or into several pieces.  If I do manage to top them they will for sure crack into tiny bits upon trying to cut them.  The other 80% come out great!

Any ideas on what I am doing wrong???

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #129 on: April 17, 2013, 12:44:41 PM »
I am thinking that the skins are drying out too much and they start getting brittle. Since the skin has several layers, the layers maybe drying out at different times causing stress on the skin creating the cracking. Not sure if this makes sense. I have left my skins out up to an hour and have had no problems. Of course I don't layer mine.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #130 on: April 17, 2013, 01:14:18 PM »
I've been making another cracker crust recipe from this site
http://www.pizzamaking.com/thincrust.php

A few things to note is I have a sheeter and I fold it about 5 times through the sheeter flouring each layer before the next fold.  I am able to layer it into several layers so it puffs up to about 5mm - 10mm thick with many crackery layers.  I want to par bake it so I can make frozen pizza for later use.  I par bake it at about 500 deg F for about 6 minutes.  They come out amazing.  However after cooling for several hours on the wire rack about 20% or so of them will slowly develop cracks all over them rendering them useless.  Upon trying to use them they usually crack in half or into several pieces.  If I do manage to top them they will for sure crack into tiny bits upon trying to cut them.  The other 80% come out great!

Any ideas on what I am doing wrong???
Check to see if the damaged ones keep showing up in the same area where you are airing them...you probably are catching a draft from somewhere. Alternatively, drape a large piece of plastic wrap over the entire area. Use something thick(sheeting) that you can fold up and reuse for this purpose.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline wrm2012

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #131 on: April 20, 2013, 12:42:10 AM »
1 pound (or about 3 1/2 cups) flour
3/4 cup warm water
3 tablespoon Olive oil
1 1/2 teaspoon active dry yeast
1 1/2 teaspoon sugar
1 teaspoon salt

Put in the fridge for about 18 hours.  Took it out and let it sit for about 2 and a half hours.  Rolled it out as thin as I could get it and pre baked it in a 16 inch pan at 550 degrees for about 5 min.  OOPS forgot to dock it so forked it and pushed down the big bubble.  Let it cool and then I topped it. Sauce, little bit of cheese, Pepperoni, black olives, and then the rest of the cheese.  Then back in at 450 degrees, for about 10 min.  Turned out great.  I mean it was just about perfect.  I even made a small pizza with the left over dough and that one turned out great as well.  I even docked that one. I do have a stone but I skipped that step and with how this turned out I do not see myself using one anytime soon for this recipe.  Man this is one great forum.  I never made a pizza before I came here and already Iíve made a Chicago DD, a Chicago thin, a greek, and this one all of witch were better than most places people pay big money for.  Even my flop of a NY style pizza was still pretty darn tasty. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 12:50:04 AM by wrm2012 »

Offline derricktung

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #132 on: April 20, 2013, 06:33:36 AM »
My second attempt at a crack crust... still not there yet.

I think a few things:

1.  Need to thin the dough more.
2.  Need to dock the dough more... (I got a very large bubble in the middle on the parbake).
3.  Need to leave it in the oven for longer for the parbake and final cook.  (Too use to Neo-Neapolitan style in my mind lately, I think I pulled it too early.)
4.  Wife says I was too stingy with the cheese.  She's the wife.  She's always right.   :-D

Any other advice?  Is the bubble an issue of docking?


Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #133 on: April 20, 2013, 10:13:04 AM »
The skin looks too thick. I roll mine out to the thickness of a dime or credit card. I don't have a docker, so I use a fork. I do dock the dough pretty heavy. If I see huge bubbles during the par bake, I use a fork to pop them during the par bake. If you wait to do that after the par bake, the skin is too brittle and it just cracks or you get holes in the bubble where you pop them. I par bake the skin in the pan placed on the stone for about 3 or so minutes. I pull it out of the oven just when I start seeing some light brown spots. Your skin looks like it was very dry when it was rolled out. Looks like a lot of cracking a breaking. Make sure to let the skin warm up on the counter for a couple of hours before rolling out.

Offline derricktung

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #134 on: April 20, 2013, 01:15:54 PM »
The skin looks too thick. I roll mine out to the thickness of a dime or credit card. I don't have a docker, so I use a fork. I do dock the dough pretty heavy. If I see huge bubbles during the par bake, I use a fork to pop them during the par bake. If you wait to do that after the par bake, the skin is too brittle and it just cracks or you get holes in the bubble where you pop them. I par bake the skin in the pan placed on the stone for about 3 or so minutes. I pull it out of the oven just when I start seeing some light brown spots. Your skin looks like it was very dry when it was rolled out. Looks like a lot of cracking a breaking. Make sure to let the skin warm up on the counter for a couple of hours before rolling out.

Nick,  thanks for the tips!  The skin was definitely warm (2.5 hours at room temp) before I rolled it out.  I definitely have to roll it thinner though... completely underestimated how thin to roll (likely thickness of 2 quarters or 2.5 quarters...) 

You go straight to stone after the parbake, correct?  No more pan?

I may up the oil content to help create a more hydrated skin... I believe I was 4% before?

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #135 on: April 20, 2013, 04:40:48 PM »
I have used more oil and have found the crust begins to become more like pie crust than cracker. I like between 3 and 3.5 tablespoons of oil for the recipe I use for a 14 inch pie. I would up the water a little, but not by much, maybe a tablespoon or less. The flour I use is KA bread flour. If you are using a different flour you may have to change the hydration a little to compensate. After the par bake I let the skin cool for about 10 minutes before I top the skin, then I place it directly on the stone for the finish.

Offline dboersma

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #136 on: April 30, 2013, 06:39:54 AM »
I am thinking that the skins are drying out too much and they start getting brittle. Since the skin has several layers, the layers maybe drying out at different times causing stress on the skin creating the cracking. Not sure if this makes sense. I have left my skins out up to an hour and have had no problems. Of course I don't layer mine.

I suspect this is the case too.  I have been doing some mass testing as of recent still not 100% but I have managed to get a better texture (IMHO).  I sheeted it less times but at a thicker thickness and it came out wonderful.  HOWEVER my first problem was the outside was nice and crispy and the inside somewhat soft.  So I reduced the temperature and increased the cooking time.  (Sounds like the right approach??)  Seems to have helped but not quite enough.  Also the crust cracked as usual after applying the toppings and re-cooking so I changed the par-bake time to a little less and now it's too soft but no cracking.  Maybe an even lower temperature and longer cooking time to have it a little more evenly crispy all the way through??  I'm at 480 bottom temperature 450 top now.  What do you figure?  I'm also going to try an increase in the oil content as I am using about 3% in the recipe, but I see in this thread it uses about 8%....

Offline nick57

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #137 on: April 30, 2013, 04:49:56 PM »
Are you weighing the ingredients by weight or by volume. When I first made my cracker crusts the doughs had less hydration and the edges would crack. I added about teaspoon of water and that stopped the cracking. Are you letting the dough rest in the fridge for at least 24 hours? I use about 3 to 3.5 tablespoons of oil for my recipe. It seems to make the dough easier to stretch, and makes the skin  feel a little softer. The oil seems to make the skin crisper when cooked. I par bake the skin in a cutter for 3 minutes on a 500 degree stone, then remove it from the pan and place it on the stone   for about 2 minutes. I let the skin cool to room temp which takes about ten minutes. While the skin is cooling I let the stove cool down to about 425 degrees before pLacing the topped pie back on the stone. I think the cooling of the skin, and the lowering of the bake temp helps dry out the crust because of the longer cook time. You might try making a pie without layering the skin. I get plenty of lamination and layering without it. If that works OK, then go back and try the layering again.
I know other members layer their skins and don't have your problem. You should check out some other threads on the cracker crust thread, maybe they are doing something different to get great results. Good luck, let me know how your results go.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 04:52:53 PM by nick57 »

Offline dboersma

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #138 on: May 05, 2013, 08:31:23 PM »
Ingredients are done by weight.  I am making another batch right now.  Dough rests a full 24 hours in the fridge.  I suspect that the problem is drying out too much so I need to find a balance of thin enough to be crispy but thick enough to have layers and some texture but not be soft in the middle.   I will post my results in a few days.  My pizza's are personal size 9".

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough Doctors cracker...No fail!
« Reply #139 on: May 05, 2013, 08:48:19 PM »
Ingredients are done by weight.  I am making another batch right now.  Dough rests a full 24 hours in the fridge.  I suspect that the problem is drying out too much so I need to find a balance of thin enough to be crispy but thick enough to have layers and some texture but not be soft in the middle.   I will post my results in a few days.  My pizza's are personal size 9".
Have you ever made a cracker with a same day dough? Might be worth a try....
Unless you have some sort of phenomenal, awesome recipe....cracker crusts are pretty much just a vehicle(with crunch :)) to deliver some phenomenal tasting sauce and toppings. ;)

Flame away.... ;D

Bob
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