Author Topic: Valoriani ovens?  (Read 6994 times)

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Offline Kermit

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2012, 08:15:37 AM »
Hi Kermit,

I agree with you the FGM website in pretty bad. If you want try to use my website, it will give you all of the same info www.breadstoneovens.com
If you need me to, let me know I can send you all of the specs sheets with the metric measurements.
Let me know any question you may have, I would be happy to answer them. Also I am sure I can get you some references as well.
I get nothing out of a sale like that but the FGM is a very honest company and Xavier the guy who runs it is a great guy and he take the time to do it right.

The website sucks, but the product it great  ;)

Thanks man. Will definately look into it. As of now the FGM seems to be one of the best options I have come across with the 1030 oven. Of course it will probably never compare to that of a brick oven, but with practise and patience, one could probably make some very delicious pies.


Offline ujanjua

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2012, 06:28:04 PM »
Hi Guys

I have bought a Valoriani oven, the refractory precast modular gr 140 . I am wanting to cook Neapolitan pizza in it and am finding it difficult to get the oven to 700 degrees never mind any more than that.

It has been installed correctly..

Any advice?

Thankyou

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2012, 07:48:32 PM »
they are too big and high for neapolitan.  there is no remedy unfortunately.  Try doing new haven style pizza.  -Marc

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2012, 08:54:50 PM »
You can make Neapolitan pizza in a higher domed oven, it's just not as easy and not really feasible in a commercial kitchen.  For a home oven it can work, people do it all the time in full hemispherical Pompeii ovens with massively high domes.

My concerns point to the installation.  Looking at both Valoriani's site and Mugnaini's(the likely distributor the OP bought from if they are in the US) it seems the proper insulation is an "option" and not a standard feature of the oven, and sometimes not even recommended.  

This page shows the oven installed with 6" of sand under the floor in place of insulation:

http://www.mugnaini.com/files/pdfs/2012_Mug_140_AOS.pdf

If you oven was installed per that diagram, that would be the issue.  It looks like they consider the 140 a commercial oven.  As a commercial oven where it is fired all day everyday, all that sand under the floor would haver a chance to get hot and stay hot.  As a home oven where it is fired infrequently from a cold state all that mass will never get up to heat.  The floor will constantly lose heat to the cold mass bellow.

If my assumption is correct your best bet will be to pull up the floor tiles, dig out the sand, and insulate, and then reinstall the floor tiles.  
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 08:56:36 PM by shuboyje »
-Jeff

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2012, 09:29:37 PM »
Hi there,

The 140 is a really big oven! Is it for home use or commercial use? Please tell me for commercial use  :(
I agree with Shuboyje, you can bring the oven to Neapolitan pizza temp if you want. I sell an oven that is the equivalent to the 140 GR and can be used for the Neapolitan. It works best when used every day, otherwise it takes hours and uses too much wood.

Again Shuboyje is right, from what you describe the insulation is the problem. If installed with sand under it then it needs to be replaced with ceramic fiber boards or a perlite/vermiculite with cement mix.

Let me know if you need help sourcing such materials.

Antoine
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline scott123

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2012, 10:13:09 AM »
Oz, how new is this oven?  It might just be a matter of all the moisture not being driven off yet. How many times have you fired it?

I would, as others have stated, take a long hard look at how the oven was insulated.

I took a look at the gr 140 web page, and, unless the photo is wrong, these are not the massively high domes of a typical Pompeii.  They're not low dome either, and I'd never recommend them to someone shopping for a new oven, but, for someone who has already pulled the trigger, there is anecdotal evidence that Neapolitan pizza can be coaxed out of these in a commercial setting, so I wouldn't immediately throw in the towel and start doing NH pies (not that there's anything wrong with NH).

Looking at the size of the door, I think, like the FGM, this could benefit from an inner door insert. While an iron insert would obviously be ideal, I've been thinking about DIY ways to implement a lower door.  One could cast a piece out of refractory, but it seems like more work than necessary.  The insert, imo, really doesn't need thermal mass. Theoretically, if you could find a way to attach copper flashing over the top 1/3 of the door (with an air tight seal), it would help keep a little more heat in the oven.

I've also been thinking about a raised floor for these kind of high-ish dome scenarios.  I know that Bill played around with raising his floor and wasn't impressed by the results, but I think he just added bricks.  I'd like to see someone add bricks along with a layer of insulation.

Jeff proposed a theory a few months back that still needs to be tested- that conduction from the hot coals in the side fire is responsible for a great deal of hearth heat.  If this is true, then an insulated brick shelf for the fire would allow for higher dome temps without driving up the floor temp quite so much.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that just because the Valoriani's aren't ideal out of the crate, perhaps there are mods that can help them perform a bit better. If someone, like Oz, has already made the commitment and can't return the oven, it can't hurt to try.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 10:17:40 AM by scott123 »

Offline ujanjua

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2012, 10:42:47 AM »
Hi guys

Firstly thankyou for your replies. I will get all the information you guys have asked for with pictures and update you guys tomm. It is for a commercial installation in a new neapolitan pizzeria I am planning on opening at the end of this month.

Oz

Offline ujanjua

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2012, 05:47:47 AM »
Hi guys.

I have digged out the manual that was sent to me by valoriani. I have tried attaching it but it is too large. If any of you guys would look over it that would be great. I can send to your email address. Please drop me a email and I will happily send it to you

I am just going to run through what I have done. It is exactly as per the manual other than the fact they built a housing which was rectangular in shape and my housing that I built is domed.

Also I bought the second largest oven they have. Its the Vesuivio Serie GR 140*180.

I build the base then put in place the silicate calcium blocks that were supplied.

On top of this I positioned the oven floor bricks.

These were then covered when I put in place the domed pieces which clunked into place

In terms of insulation, I covered it twice with a fire blanket, wire mesh and then mixed cement and vermiculite to a ratio of 5:1. This has been covered to a depth of 3 inches.

Finally I coated it with a mixture of sand and cement. Quite a thin layer.

It has been cured over a period of 2 weeks..

So under the floor tiles of the oven there is no sand but there is silicate calcium blocks. Will upload pics of the oven tomm.

Thankyou

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2012, 06:16:02 AM »
Have you cured the oven? And how long was your firing when you read a temp of 700 on the floor?

John

Offline ujanjua

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2012, 06:24:31 AM »
Yes I have cured it for two weeks. It took 3-4 hours to bring it to 700 degrees. Even then the base is not all at 700 degrees. It is only the area that is specifically under the fire.

I am using smaller logs at the moment. Maybe I need to use longer logs say 40-45 cm long?


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2012, 06:32:01 AM »
You will need to fire the oven over a period of at least 12 hours. Then you need to fire it every day to maintain the temp with smaller firings.

John

Offline ujanjua

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2012, 06:45:53 AM »
Many thanks for your advice

Offline csafranek

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Re: Valoriani ovens?
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2013, 04:10:29 PM »
Many thanks for your advice

Just curious how your oven is working now?