Author Topic: blue or red for neapolitan  (Read 665 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline live4u

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Bay area
  • Pizzaaaa Pizzaaaa Pizzaaaa
blue or red for neapolitan
« on: February 02, 2016, 07:40:58 PM »
Hiya folks
Which one do you suggest or prefer in caputo 00? Is it the blue one or red one?

Thanks
Ram


Offline Ogwoodfire

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 152
  • Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 08:16:56 PM »
In have made some of My favorite pies with Red but it seems blue is the more popular and readily available. They are very similar seems like they act nearly the same with a small adjustment in hydration, maybe 1-2% more with blue.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 17671
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 08:43:15 PM »
There is more than one Caputo in both blue and red bags. By blue, I assume you mean "Pizzeria?" By red do you mean "Rinforzata" (25kg bags) or "Chef's Flour (1kg bags)?"
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline live4u

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Bay area
  • Pizzaaaa Pizzaaaa Pizzaaaa
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2016, 10:55:39 PM »
There is more than one Caputo in both blue and red bags. By blue, I assume you mean "Pizzeria?" By red do you mean "Rinforzata" (25kg bags) or "Chef's Flour (1kg bags)?"

 ??? wow so many? I have the 1kg bag thats all. But which one is better?

Offline Bill/SFNM

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4594
  • Location: Santa Fe, NM
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2016, 02:07:28 AM »
??? wow so many? I have the 1kg bag thats all. But which one is better?

I'd start with blue since it seems to be the easiest to get and has been less susceptible to confusion from the packaging changes Caputo has made over the years. If you can't make a great pizza with blue then I don't think you can make a great pizza with any flour.

Offline Neapolitan_Dreams

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 30
  • Location: Leeds, England
  • I Love Pizza!
    • Making dreams come true...
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2016, 06:54:28 AM »
I'd start with blue since it seems to be the easiest to get and has been less susceptible to confusion from the packaging changes Caputo has made over the years. If you can't make a great pizza with blue then I don't think you can make a great pizza with any flour.

That sounds like it should be Caputo's slogan...

I WILL own a pizzeria one day...

Offline Bill/SFNM

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4594
  • Location: Santa Fe, NM
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2016, 06:59:49 AM »
That is exactly what I look like! Stay yeasty, my friends.

Offline Ogwoodfire

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 152
  • Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2016, 07:30:51 AM »
For clarification I was speaking of the "chefs flour" with red. My rep tells me the "rinforzata" is the same as the purple bag marketed in the U.S. As Caputo New York pizza flour, with some DM.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 17671
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2016, 09:03:32 AM »
For clarification I was speaking of the "chefs flour" with red. My rep tells me the "rinforzata" is the same as the purple bag marketed in the U.S. As Caputo New York pizza flour, with some DM.

I don't know why so many people refer to Caputo flour by bag color? All the flours have unique names - not so much for bag color.

Is the  "rep" that told you this someone from Orlando foods or someone from your local foodservice distributor? If the latter, i'm not sure how much stock I'd put in it. We have also been told that Caputo NY (which I don't think comes in a purple bag) is Metro (which does come in a purple bag) with DM added. Sounds like the rep may have been confused? In any case adding DM is a pretty big distinction that probably limits its usefulness for NP.


"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline live4u

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Bay area
  • Pizzaaaa Pizzaaaa Pizzaaaa
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2016, 11:42:27 AM »
So which one is the starter flour? I hear the blue bag (now craig will be angry  :-D).

Offline Bill/SFNM

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4594
  • Location: Santa Fe, NM
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2016, 12:21:00 PM »
So which one is the starter flour? I hear the blue bag (now craig will be angry  :-D).

This what I have been using:

amazon.com/gp/product/B003ASHHDM

Offline Bill/SFNM

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4594
  • Location: Santa Fe, NM
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2016, 12:23:13 PM »
BTW, I don't trust the repacks. A friend ordered one and I worked with him on making his dough and I suspected it was not the same as I have been using all these years.

Offline Neapolitan_Dreams

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 30
  • Location: Leeds, England
  • I Love Pizza!
    • Making dreams come true...
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2016, 12:41:33 PM »
This what I have been using:

amazon.com/gp/product/B003ASHHDM

I too use that one, then I keep it in one of these... http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00AF5GVHQ/?tag=pmak-20

It keeps the flour really fresh for quite some time!
I WILL own a pizzeria one day...

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 17671
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2016, 02:09:35 PM »
I've had Caputo Pizzeria in the freezer (and not in an air-tight container or bag) for as long a three years with no noticeable change in quality.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline live4u

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Bay area
  • Pizzaaaa Pizzaaaa Pizzaaaa
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2016, 11:28:29 PM »
Looks like quite a number of people are not happy with repack :)

Offline Ogwoodfire

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 152
  • Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2016, 11:30:03 PM »
I just checked the Caputo NY style bag it's not purple it's red, white and blue (not sure why I thought purple). My rep is an Orlando foods rep for NY state and works closely with many well known pizzerias. He said that Caputo Ny was rinforzata with DM added but it's always possible he could be mistaken. I have never used the flour so I don't have a guess to what it actually is. I think the use of the terms red and blue  is because Caputo pizzeria and Caputo chefs flour are the 2 most commonly available in the United States. This makes me think of an old picture I saw from motorino with "red" bags, I guess I always thought it was chefs flour but now has me wondering.

Jay

Offline fagilia

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 443
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2016, 05:37:11 AM »
red is stronger and blue is weaker isnt that it. difference in W number.
Red is used in naples in really hot days when blue bag dont hold up for the test.
I think pizzaiolos many of them rather change flour than recipie, so they can do like they always do.
Most good pizzaiolos in naples that i know dont measure water they go by feel also. They dont understand when i talk about 1 % more water and stuff like that.
You can make equal good pizza with both flours but with different recipies. I think....
Lets say 10-15% more in ball with the red bag would be my guess to achieve the same result. Very wild guess :)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 05:40:27 AM by fagilia »


Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 17671
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2016, 09:06:00 AM »
I just checked the Caputo NY style bag it's not purple it's red, white and blue (not sure why I thought purple). My rep is an Orlando foods rep for NY state and works closely with many well known pizzerias. He said that Caputo Ny was rinforzata with DM added but it's always possible he could be mistaken. I have never used the flour so I don't have a guess to what it actually is. I think the use of the terms red and blue  is because Caputo pizzeria and Caputo chefs flour are the 2 most commonly available in the United States. This makes me think of an old picture I saw from motorino with "red" bags, I guess I always thought it was chefs flour but now has me wondering.

Jay

If I remember my Caputo stories correctly, and I'm pretty sure this one was confirmed here by Fred at Orlando Foods, at one time, "Chef's Flour" was actually Pizzeria. It was later changed to a flour that is unique to "Chef's Flour" and is only packed in the 1kg bags.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 17671
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2016, 09:09:13 AM »
Here is the post I was referring to:

Guys,
I want to jump in here in an attempt to clear things up a bit, even though this is a confusing conversation for a few reasons.  When Caputo first launched the 1kg pack it was in fact the same flour used as the 00 Pizzeria blue bag.  Over time and with a bit of market feedback there have been some changes, as only you dedicated pizzaiuoli have noted quite honestly, so compliments on the great depths to which you all go to develop the perfect crust.  At some point, however, certain specific characteristics of the 00 pizzeria were limiting the success which the average home chef was finding with our flour (among other things it requires "softer" hands than domestic flours with which people were accustomed to using).  For this and some other reasons we modified the formula in the 1kg bag to be more user friendly and yet deliver that same wonderful caputo flavor in breads, pizza and pasta (the basics for which people read cookbooks use 00 flours at home).
We did not consider the impact this could have on the true pizza fanatic at home, and for that I apologize, for we may have forced you into buying 25 kg of pizzeria flour at a time.  Or you can call Penn Mac in Pittsburgh who sells 5# repacked bags of the 00 pizzeria and ships all around the country.
Keep the flame going because thanks to you all, this forum has become the leading source of GOOD information on the market and more than you all realize, is a resource for many people developing Neapolitan pizza concepts in the commercial world.
hope this answers some questions.
Fred Mortati
Orlando Food Sales

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Ogwoodfire

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 152
  • Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2016, 10:42:02 PM »
So since somewhere around 2013 the chefs flour has been its own unique flour, makes sense. Not sure where the Caputo NY style falls into this, either way I have never used it and most likely never will, but it would be good to know. There's a big food show here next month, I'll see if they have Any there and inquire.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 17671
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: blue or red for neapolitan
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2016, 09:53:20 AM »
Norma,

When you were in NY with the Caputo folks, did they say if they were going to continue the Caputo NY pizza flour, or will they only sell the Caputo Americana?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


 

pizzapan