Author Topic: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage  (Read 47632 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2012, 09:04:29 PM »
Wow, that is beautiful. Awesome pie!

My son just walked up as I was writing this and asked, "Is that one of your pies... It looks like one of your pies." I guess that means the workflow works.  ;D
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2012, 09:24:38 PM »
That is cute how your boy refers to it as "pie"  :)
And I suspect we all will now soon be enjoying many more great pics of Craig clones thanks to this thread....
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2012, 12:19:36 AM »
I had been cheating my bulk rise a little lately - making my dough later and later in the evening. This would take as much as 4 hours off my bulk rise. I had been suspecting that this was negatively impacting my final product. For the pies I made yesterday, I made the dough early enough in the day that it would get a full 24 hours in bulk. It made a meaningful difference in the finished pies.

Also, the longer you can keep your balls at ~65F, the better. I tinkered with the yeast a little (1.45%) and hit it right on where the balls were perfect after 24 hours at ~65F. I left them out at 90F (my outside temp) for about 30 minutes before baking. They were some of my best pies ever.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline thezaman

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2012, 04:58:55 PM »
craig can you take a picture of the individual dough balls just before you stretch. what would happen if you increase the starter? does it give more rise,change your flavor,or just decrease the workable period for the dough.how do you determine your percentage.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2012, 05:34:14 PM »
craig can you take a picture of the individual dough balls just before you stretch. what would happen if you increase the starter? does it give more rise,change your flavor,or just decrease the workable period for the dough.how do you determine your percentage.

If I increased the starter, all other things being equal, it would be ready faster and have less flavor. Since I use so little, the starter add no flavor directly. All the flavor comes from the fermentation. I've found that starters develop different flavors when allowed to work at different temperatures. Others such as Bill/SFNM have reported similar findings. I believe we both agree that we prefer the flavors generated around 64-65F for pizza (for bread, I prefer the mid 90F's.). The starter % I use is designed to yield a dough that is ready in 48 hours. I've found the last 4 hours (hours 44-48) make quite a big difference, so I don't want to go any less than 48. I've also found if I cut back the starter and go another day (72hours) it gets too sour. 48 hours at 65F seems to be the sweet spot.

CL
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Offline thezaman

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2012, 07:30:48 PM »
craig, what is the advantage of your method vs keste who uses minimal yeast and 48 hour fermentation to make his dough. the dough sours some from the long room rise.seems you are both getting the same final results.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2012, 08:11:53 PM »
craig, what is the advantage of your method vs keste who uses minimal yeast and 48 hour fermentation to make his dough. the dough sours some from the long room rise.seems you are both getting the same final results.

I was thinking that Roberto was doing a 24hours bulk and 48 hours in balls? He is also using CY, right? Perhaps I'm biased, but I'd say my dough has more flavor. I hope you will come to Texas someday soon, try my pizza, and tell me if there is an advantage or not. I'd trust your opinion on a Margherita above just about anyone elses.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline thezaman

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2012, 10:07:44 AM »
 craig, that is quite a compliment! trust me i will be making a trip to the garage. i'm sorry i missed the last outing.it is the top of my list. i'm sure my jersey buddy will make the trek with me. you know john "tell it like it is" conklin  :-D

Offline othafa9

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2012, 01:41:06 PM »
You can definately get good cornicione using a "slap" technique.  Just takes practice:)

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2012, 01:58:42 PM »
You can definately get good cornicione using a "slap" technique.  Just takes practice:)

Try it with my dough though, and you will have a 18" round after about 3 slaps.  :-D
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2012, 10:00:43 PM »
craig can you take a picture of the individual dough balls just before you stretch.

Here you go.

1) In the container (for sake of terminology, you are seeing the bottom of the dough ball)
2) Out of the container (bottom of the doughball is up)
3) First press with my fingers after flipping once (top of dough ball is now up)
4) Second press with the fingers after a flip and 45 degree rotation (bottom of dough ball is now up)
5) A quick pass over the knuckles and ready to top (top of the dough ball is now up)
6) Baked

You can really see the difference in smoothness between the top and bottom of the dough ball.

The thicker part of the cornice you see in the 5th picture will get stretched out a little more even after I get the topped pie on on the peel.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 10:45:52 PM by TXCraig1 »
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2012, 10:09:14 PM »
Just a second opinion, but Craig's dough is incredibly easy to open.  It's like a wet, yet firm wash cloth on top of your knuckles.  Unless you completely get it wrong, you could almost command the dough ball to open itself.  Seriously.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2012, 10:10:08 PM »
Just a second opinion, but Craig's dough is incredibly easy to open.  It's like a wet, yet firm wash cloth on top of your knuckles.  Unless you completely get it wrong, you could almost command the dough ball to open itself.  Seriously.

Thanks Gene. You'll notice it's just about all the way open after just two pressings with my fingers.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2012, 10:15:28 PM »
Freshly balled dough.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline thezaman

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2012, 07:15:07 AM »
Looks like you get a lot of activity very slowly ! Thanks for the pic

Offline TXCraig1

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Offline Giggliato

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2012, 10:44:43 AM »
That dough looks just about right. I can almost feel it through the monitor  :-D :-D

I do wonder about the amount of rise that you are getting in your containers though. I seem to recall some pictures from Verasano's restaurant where the doughball rises to the entire volume of the containers which are similarly sized to yours. I've never eaten Verasano's nor yours but I do wonder about the differences.

Your pictures seem to show the doughball rising to about a third of the containers volume... But as they say, if the pizza is good, eat it.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2012, 11:12:46 AM »
That dough looks just about right. I can almost feel it through the monitor  :-D :-D

I do wonder about the amount of rise that you are getting in your containers though. I seem to recall some pictures from Verasano's restaurant where the doughball rises to the entire volume of the containers which are similarly sized to yours. I've never eaten Verasano's nor yours but I do wonder about the differences.

Your pictures seem to show the doughball rising to about a third of the containers volume... But as they say, if the pizza is good, eat it.

I don't think his dough rises that much. I just went and looked at his website to confirm, and he says he likes 1.5X rise. In the pictures, the dough is nowhere near filling the container. It doesn't look much different than mine; maybe a little less risen even. Mine fill maybe 15-20% of the container when they are ready to bake. I don't go by size. I go by the look of the bubbles.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2012, 07:26:18 PM »
Craig,

So I applied a portion of your process to my latest batch. Instead of bulk fermenting for 43 hours and individual proofing for 5 hours, I bulked for 24 hours and proofed for 24 hours. I still want to run some more tests, but this dough was the easiest dough ever for stretching. Almost no stretching required, just a stern look from me and it responded immediately. I really liked the way it baked up.

One thing I did not like that differs from my standard dough: as it cooled, the crust toughened considerably. This is not usually a problem since my pizzas don't have time to reach that state. But is this something you have observed? 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Entire Pizza Making Process I use at the Garage
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2012, 07:41:13 PM »
No, I have not noticed a meaningful difference between the toughness after cooling with this fermentation regiment vs. longer in bulk and less in balls. I would say my crust tenderness/toughness after cooling is on par with what I've seen at places like Keste, Motorino, etc.

Can you think of any reason why more time in balls would negatively effect this? I would intuitively think it might me more tender as the gluten is more relaxed when it is baked. Perhaps this has an opposite effect?
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.