Author Topic: What water temp do you think gives ny pizza dough a better flavor?  (Read 5748 times)

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Offline kdefay

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Re: What water temp do you think gives ny pizza dough a better flavor?
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2012, 12:12:34 AM »
Happy to share, but this recipe is formulated around the specific flours and conditions that I have to deal with here in Thailand.

Flour 100% (blended at 70% DiVella 00 to 30% bread flour (13.5-14%)
Salt 2.5%
IDY - .30%
Sugar .5%
Oil 1%
Water 62% (I mix 30% of water weight as ice and use it when the cubes have melted sufficiently)

Here's some specifics...The DiVella 00 flour (10.5% protein) is the only 00 flour available here in Thailand, so it's what I use.  My bread flour is a Thai brand but it works quite well with this dough.  In the past I used to autolyse (when I was hand mixing), but I don't anymore.  I'm with Craig as I am more concerned with getting the dough balls in the fridge while they are still cool.  I mix my ice water with the salt and sugar and set it aside while I mix the flours and the yeast together and weigh out the oil.

I use a 30-quart spiral mixer.  I put the water in first, followed by the flour/yeast.  I mix for 2 minutes on low, add the oil and for 6 1/2 minutes on high.  I immediately transfer the dough from the mixer to my work surface, where I divide the dough into 480g balls (16" pies) and place into proofing boxes for their 2-day cold ferment.  Stacks of proofing boxes can be seen in the refrigerator in the background of the mixer photo.  If all goes according to plan, two days later the dough balls have expanded to the point where they are slightly touching each other, but not so much that they need to be cut apart.  

I know that most people are using only bread flour in their NY dough, but I really like the result of mixing with the 00 flour.

I use a modified gas deck oven with 1" thick cordierite for the floor and also suspended about 5" above the floor.  My floor temp is generally about 650F and the upper temp is much hotter (not sure how much because it was beyond the range of the IR thermometer I tested last week).  I have no problem achieving a 4 minute bake time with this setup.


Kirk





« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 04:00:44 AM by kdefay »


Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: What water temp do you think gives ny pizza dough a better flavor?
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2012, 09:46:26 AM »
The greatest impact that variations in finished dough temperature will have is on the rate of fermentation, with warmer dough temperatures promoting faster fermentation. This can lead to problems if you are holding the dough for several days in the refrigerator as many of us do. I've seen doughs fail to rise properly after two to three days in the fridge when the yeast level was high (relative) and the dough temperature was also high (for the yeast level used). For greatest consistency in dough performance, along with predictable flavor and crust color characteristics it is adviseable to control the finished dough temperature as closely as possible. Here is a simple method for doing this. It is from Red Star/Lesaffre Yeast Corporation.
Subtract the flour temperature from 145 to find the correct water temperature to give you a finished dough temperature of approximately 80F. Note: Since there are so many different dough mixing methods employed by visitors to this web site, I suggest that you experiment a little with that 145 number. For example, if your flour is 65F it will suggest a water temperature of 80F to give you a finished dough temperature of 80F. If the actual dough temperature is higher use a number LOWER than 145 or if the actual dough temperature is lower than 80F, use a higher number. This would also hold true if you want a finished dough temperature higher or lower than 80F. Once you find your number you should be able to lock it in and get consistent finished dough temps.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline MrPibbs

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Re: What water temp do you think gives ny pizza dough a better flavor?
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2012, 12:15:40 AM »
I have been following Pete-ZZa's first post ingredients in his Tom Lehman's NY Style thread, for a 16" pizza,where he says to end up with a dough temp of 85F.  Since I am a home user just making that 20 oz amount in my Bosch mixer (dough hook), I have to start with my filtered water microwaved for a minute up to 115F to end up with 85F in final dough.  (Measured with Thermapen)

With this lesser volume recipe, there is a lot of heat transferring to the room temp mixing bowl.  Everything is identical to Pete's post (KASL, SAF IDY, etc.), except I add 1 tsp sugar.  After mixing it for about 10-12 mins, I put it in an oiled tupperware bowl, and immediately start it's cold ferment in 45F frig for 3 days.

I have made it at least a dozen times, and has always turned out great with excellent flavor and lotsa air bubbles.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: What water temp do you think gives ny pizza dough a better flavor?
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2012, 09:10:32 AM »
MrPibbs,

Subsequent to the post you referred to, I started to recommend that home pizza makers strive for a finished dough temperature of around 75-80 degrees F. The reason for the change is that I discovered that most home refrigerators run warmer than commercial coolers. So, lowering the finished dough temperature in a home setting is intended to compensate for the differences in residential/commercial cooling capacity. Of course, in any given case, how a dough ferments after it is placed into the refrigerator depends on several factors, including the size of the dough ball and how it is stored in its container (e.g., in a plastic, glass or metal container, a storage bag, etc.), the number of dough balls to be cooled, where in the refrigerator compartment the dough is stored (e.g., in the back away from the door, high or low in the refrigerator compartment, etc.), what other items are also in the refrigerator compartment and being cooled at the same time, and how often the refrigerator door is opened and closed. Because of these variables, some people choose to use a spare refrigerator to store their dough balls since such spare refrigerators tend not to have nearly the same traffic as the main refrigerator and, as a result, tend to have more stable cooling temperatures.

In your case, if you are happy with the results you have been getting, I don't see any reason to change anything (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). I just wanted you to know that my recommendation on finished dough temperature has changed since I posted in the reply you mentioned.

Peter

Offline PuRowdy

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Re: What water temp do you think gives ny pizza dough a better flavor?
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2012, 09:02:30 AM »
Just a couple thoughts / questions?

I'm using ADY here at home, according to the pizza glossary on this site it says you should be hydrating the yeast in water that is 105-115 degrees before mixing with dry ingredients.  Is using lower temperature water going to affect the yeast activation or effectiveness?  Should I consider switching to IDY?

I've never paid any real attention to my final dough temp, something I will definitely start doing.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What water temp do you think gives ny pizza dough a better flavor?
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2012, 09:06:16 AM »
Just a couple thoughts / questions?

I'm using ADY here at home, according to the pizza glossary on this site it says you should be hydrating the yeast in water that is 105-115 degrees before mixing with dry ingredients.  Is using lower temperature water going to affect the yeast activation or effectiveness?  Should I consider switching to IDY?

I've never paid any real attention to my final dough temp, something I will definitely start doing.

Keep in mind that you only need to hydrate you ADY in a small portion of your total formula water. The rest can be at a much cooler temperature.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline PuRowdy

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Re: What water temp do you think gives ny pizza dough a better flavor?
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2012, 01:03:13 PM »
Keep in mind that you only need to hydrate you ADY in a small portion of your total formula water. The rest can be at a much cooler temperature.

Ahh, hadn't thought about that, thanks for the input, I will keep that in mind next time.


 

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