Author Topic: Aimless New York  (Read 4036 times)

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Aimless New York
« on: August 21, 2012, 04:29:18 PM »
Since joining pizzamaking.com almost two years ago, I've focused mostly on making non-New York styles of pizza; particularly attempting to clone a small local chain (in Columbus, Ohio) that makes a sort of cracker style. Before beginning my cracker project, my main style of pizza was something resembling NY style. However, with all the attention I've given to my cracker clone, I've only made a handful of NY style pizzas over the last two years. But now it feels like time to get serious about NY style pizza again, so I've decided to start a thread devoted to my NY style pizzas.

Earlier today I made the dough for what will become my first pizza in this thread. Here's the formula:

100% All Trumps flour
58% Water
0.63% ADY
1.34% Salt
1.58% Canola oil

Water was about 110 degrees. (I didn't measure it with a thermometer; it was just very warm to the touch.)

Dough preparation procedures:

  • Measured 11.13 oz of water.
  • Poured a couple ounces of the water into my mixer bowl, then measured 1.2 tsp of active dry yeast and added it to the water in the mixing bowl.
  • Measured 19.2 oz of flour.
  • Measured 1.5 tsp of salt and added it to the flour.
  • When the yeast was clearly dissolved (5 or 10 minutes after adding the yeast to the water), I added the rest of the water to the mixer bowl.
  • Added all the flour to the mixer bowl.
  • Began mixing on speed 2 of my KitchenAid Professional 5 mixer with spiral dough hook.
  • After dough mostly came together into a solid, shaggy mass (less than a minute), I added about 1.9 tsp (or 0.30 oz) of canola oil to the dough, without stopping the mixer.
  • Mixed for a total of 5 minutes.
  • After mixing, I immediately scaled the dough into two 15.5 oz dough balls and rounded them.

  • After rounding the dough balls, I pulled out about 16" of plastic wrap and placed it flat on my work surface.
  • Placed a dough ball a couple inches from one end of the plastic wrap, seam-side-down, centering the dough ball in relation to the narrow dimension of the plastic wrap (see pic #4).
  • Sprayed the top of the dough ball with a quick mist of nonstick spray.
  • Folded the plastic wrap over the dough ball like closing a book, then pressed the top layer of plastic wrap to fit tightly around the top of the dough ball.
  • Placed the dough ball on a flat surface in the refrigerator.
  • Repeated the previous five steps with the second dough ball.
   
As you may have already figured out, this made about 31 oz of dough. I intended to use 15 oz of dough for each of the two dough balls (throwing out the excess dough), but I ended up using all the dough and going with 15.5 oz per dough ball, each of which will become a 16" pizza (TF=0.077 oz of dough per square inch).

My intent is for this to be a 48-hour dough, but I'll probably use the first dough ball tomorrow (24 hours).


Offline rcbaughn

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 06:19:10 PM »
Can't wait to see how these turn out, but I'm sure they will be great considering you experience with other types of pies. I really need to work on my NY style pies, but I have been too obsessed with burgers and french fries to bake much pizza lately.
More is better..... and too much is just right.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 11:01:38 PM »
Will keep my eye on this thread.  Any reason you prefer canola vs olive oil?
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2012, 11:05:30 PM »
Was the All Trumps Bleached and Bromated, or just the silly Califorina stuff?  My guess is the good stuff, but just asking for clarity.
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 10:49:35 AM »
Any reason you prefer canola vs olive oil?

I don't necessarily prefer canola oil over any other oil; I just use canola because there's usually a bunch of it around and because I don't want to add any noticeable oil flavor (which would probably happen if I used something like extra virgin olive oil). The only reason I use oil is to create a slightly softer crust. I used to omit oil with this kind of dough, but the crust always ended up too tough, especially when using All Trumps flour.

Also, in case anyone finds it odd that I only mixed for 5 minutes, here's why I do that:

I used to mix for around 15 minutes to fully develop the gluten (probably because I never thought to question the bozos at Food Network). But then I read a post from Scott123, instructing someone to undermix the dough. He said to mix only until it reaches a 'cottage cheesy' texture. I thought that was interesting, so I tried it. The first time I undermixed the dough was the first time I made a pizza that tasted and felt like something you could get in New York. (Note to any inexperienced pizzamakers: If you intend to use your dough the same day you mix it, it's better to mix beyond the cottage cheese stage, until the dough is smooth.)

Jet_deck: Yes, it is bleached and bromated. I actually thought about including those details in the formula expression, but I just didn't do it.

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 10:57:26 AM »
Yes I agree with you on the mixing time. For a same day dough yesterday it took about 5 minutes to get to a reasonably smooth stage (I could probably have gone longer).  For me, especially when working <=60% hydration with high gluten flour, unless I'm using some autolyse schedule, it has to come together and feel "dough like" after the initial mix. That might go against the whole "cottage cheese" idea but I've tried doing it that way and even with a long bulk ferment, it almost always needs additional mixing later on before shaping otherwise I find the balls don't stretch right.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 11:03:15 AM by enter8 »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 05:42:21 PM »
Well, I've made my first pizza for this thread. It seems like just about everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong. I guess it was performance anxiety or something.

Pic 1: Dough ball straight out of the fridge, after about a 24-hour ferment (at 2:00 pm).

Pic 2 & 3: As soon as I remove dough from the fridge, I take it out of the plastic wrap (because it's much easier to remove plastic wrap from cold dough than warm dough). I then put the dough on my cutter pan and cover it with a plastic bowl.

Pic 4: Dough ball at 3:30. (I left it uncovered between 3:30 and 4:20.)

Pic 5: Saucing and cheesing at about 4:25

A whole bunch more pics and descriptions on the way.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 06:10:48 PM »
Here are some things I did wrong with this pizza:

  • Sauce was a little too wet.
  • I used a little too much sauce.
  • I should have used a few more pulses when I processed the tomatoes; they ended up a little too chunky.
  • I didn't preheat the grill/stone long enough. (Not even half an hour.)

Here are some things that just went wrong:

  • The pizza ended up about 16.5" x 15". (Things like this can easily happen when you try to launch a 16" pizza onto a 15.5" stone, especially when you're trying to do it quickly so you don't let all the heat out of the grill.)
  • When I rotated the pizza about two minutes into the bake, a chunk of the crust stuck to the back of the grill.
  • Probably a few other things that I just can't remember.

Pic 1: Seconds after peeling the pizza onto the stone.
Pic 2: 2 minutes.
Pic 3: 4 minutes.
Pic 4: 6 minutes.
Pic 5: After baking for 7:30.

More pics on the way.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 07:50:30 PM by AimlessRyan »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2012, 06:13:36 PM »
Pics.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 06:15:33 PM »
And a couple more pics.


Offline Chaze215

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 08:07:08 PM »
Hell, they look pretty damn good to me! Nice job!  :chef:
Chaz

Offline slybarman

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2012, 08:42:31 PM »
How was the texture of the crust? Looks like you got good color on the bottom.

Offline norma427

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2012, 08:59:26 PM »
Ryan,

Your pizza looks pretty tasty to me too.  :)

Norma
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2012, 09:12:45 PM »
How was the texture of the crust? Looks like you got good color on the bottom.

The last picture was supposed to show the crumb, and it would have been a nice shot if only it was in focus. It wouldn't have looked like most of the crumb shots on these boards, though, because I'm not trying to make a pizza with a complex crumb. Rather, I'm trying to make a NY style pizza, and NY style pizza doesn't have a complex crumb.

The texture of the crust was OK, and the pizza tasted good, but it was just a little off in almost every way, probably because I was too impatient to let the grill and stone get a little hotter.

It's hard to explain. Next time you make a pizza, purposely bake it before your oven is ready. Then you'll probably know what I'm unsuccessfully trying to say here.

Yeah, the color on the bottom is pretty nice, especially considering everything I did wrong, as well as the fact that I used the dough a day before it was really meant to be used. But it looks so flat; too flat. It's nowhere near perfect, but it's not bad, either. I think tomorrow's will look much better.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2012, 09:13:33 PM »
Thanks for the nice comments, y'all.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2012, 07:06:01 PM »
Today's pizza was made with dough from the batch I made in the original post. It was refrigerated for about 48 hours. I was a little worried by the results I got with yesterday's pizza, but it turned out that this dough is real good; so good that I may never change the formula. It's definitely a 2-day dough, and I assume it would work pretty well on Day 3, too. (I'll have to try that with the next batch, which I haven't made yet.)

As with yesterday's pizza, the sauce is Stanislaus Saporito Filetto di Pomodoro, pulsed several times, with nothing added. Cheese is Polly-O whole milk mozzarella.

Pic 1: Dough skin.
Pic 2: I went maybe a couple ounces lighter on the sauce today, but it probably wouldn't hurt to go even lighter.
Pic 3: Sauce and cheese.

8 more pics to come after these.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2012, 07:15:58 PM »
I gave the grill and stone plenty of time to heat up today, but I don't know how long because my mind was all over the place. I think the grill was probably heating up for about 45 minutes before I started baking. Also, the grill seemed to heat up faster today than yesterday.

Pic 1: Immediately after peeling.
Pic 2: Two minutes.
Pic 3: Four minutes.
Pic 4: Bake time was about 6:30, but could have been shorter.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2012, 07:24:11 PM »
This pizza was at least 16", which, as you may remember, is bigger than my stone. Consequently, I ended up with some burned edges. Regardless, this pizza was very good. If I had been able to bake it in a Marsal oven, people would have paid good money for this baby. (And I have made some of my pizzas in a Marsal oven before, at NAPICS, so I know how much of a difference it makes.)

Pics: Random crust and slice shots.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2012, 11:02:24 AM »
Dough I made yesterday (for tomorrow and the next day). Same formula as the previous batch of dough:

100% All Trumps bleached and bromated flour
58% Water
0.63% ADY
1.34% Salt
1.58% Canola oil

I did a couple things slightly different this time. First, I only mixed for about 3-1/2 minutes, rather than 5 minutes. Second, after mixing the dough, I covered the mixer bowl and let the dough rest for 20 minutes, rather than dividing, rounding, and refrigerating immediately.

Also, instead of a 31 oz batch, I made a 29 oz batch, for two reasons: First, although I'd prefer to make 16" pizzas, I'm tired of trying to land a 16" skin on a 15.5" stone, resulting in unnecessary stress and less photogenic pizzas, so I'm gonna make 14"-15" pizzas at least for now. Also, a thickness of 0.77 oz of dough per square inch is just too thin. Or, rather, making a good ultra-thin NY style pizza is easier for me than making a good moderately thin NY style pizza. (If I keep doing what I already do well, there's not much for me to learn.)

I know Scott123 advocates a thickness of 0.7 to 0.75, but I'm not Scott. Also, I believe he lives in New Jersey, and New Jersey slice joints sell thinner pizza than New York slice joints. Maybe New York used to be different--I don't know--but present-day New York sells noticeably thicker slices than present-day New Jersey. That's something I noticed when I was walking across New Jersey two years ago (eating slices for almost every meal), without being influenced by the ideas of pizzamaking.com members (as I was neither a member nor a lurker then).

Pic 1: 3-1/2 minute mix.
Pic 2: Results of 3-1/2 minute mix from another perspective.
Pic 3: Dividing the dough into two 14.5 oz pieces of dough.
Pic 4: Rounded and almost ready to put in the fridge.

EDIT: I changed "dividing and scaling" to "dividing, rounding, and refrigerating."
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 11:30:02 AM by AimlessRyan »

Offline slybarman

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Re: Aimless New York
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2012, 11:18:24 AM »
I would say that looks cottage-cheesey.  ;D

I just made up a single 60% hydration dough ball this morning for tomorrow night - up from the 58% I have been using. I will be interesting to see the difference. I also upped the oil. I am doing 13.5 oz dough for 14" pies.